Caster problems...need your help
Caster problems...need your help
I got my car aligned today once again and camber & toe are within specs. The problem is my car was pulling to the right and I thought it'd have been fixed once aligned. The mechanic told me there's a problem with caster on the RF wheel which is about (0.25") behind compared to the left wheel. 0.25" may not sound like much, but when it come to suspension, I know this is trouble. He recommended taking the car to pull the frame?? and bring the RF wheel to caster specs. Can you guys advice me on the matter. I'm really concerned about this. By the way, the car is pulling to the right even more than before, even after the alignment was done..
Give us a refresher, isnt caster the angle at which your wheel is in front of or behind the center point? INother words, isnt it a measurement of the angle of the strut holding the wheel? I dont think this is adjustable. He may be right though, if the front wheel encountered a curb, this angle might now be 0 or 90 degrees how ever they measure it, but i dont recall seeing an adjustment for this angle. 
If I remember correctly from the printed report it was something like 2.41 degrees off compared to the left front wheel..
I've never been on an accident with this car, so how the hell can the caster come off that much?
I've never been on an accident with this car, so how the hell can the caster come off that much?
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The only way for the caster to be off that much is to crash the car. or have something be broken. Check your bushings and stuff, make sure the LCA isn't bent, etc......
Don't pull the frame until you've had absolutely everything else looked at, including the upper mount of the strut being in the correct orientation.
Don't pull the frame until you've had absolutely everything else looked at, including the upper mount of the strut being in the correct orientation.
Thanks for the help guys...I really appreciated..
Boilermaker1, which bushings exactly would I have to check? The whole front suspension bushings?
Would bumps and holes on the street throw caster off? I'm sure I've gone over some, but nothing too drastic as to bend the lower control arm or mess up some bushings...the mechanic told me that even when caster specs are off, this doesn't affect tire wear as long as camber and toe are within specs. Is this true?
Boilermaker1, which bushings exactly would I have to check? The whole front suspension bushings?
Would bumps and holes on the street throw caster off? I'm sure I've gone over some, but nothing too drastic as to bend the lower control arm or mess up some bushings...the mechanic told me that even when caster specs are off, this doesn't affect tire wear as long as camber and toe are within specs. Is this true?
have a look at the front LCA compliance bushings. mine are shot and its messing up my caster a bit. The parts are cheap but the labor is pretty crappy.
Its easy to find. Look at the control arm and follow it to where it meets the frame. THe big ruber donut that the big bolt goes through is the compliance bushing.
Its easy to find. Look at the control arm and follow it to where it meets the frame. THe big ruber donut that the big bolt goes through is the compliance bushing.
Originally Posted by thecheat
have a look at the front LCA compliance bushings. mine are shot and its messing up my caster a bit. The parts are cheap but the labor is pretty crappy.
Its easy to find. Look at the control arm and follow it to where it meets the frame. THe big ruber donut that the big bolt goes through is the compliance bushing.
Its easy to find. Look at the control arm and follow it to where it meets the frame. THe big ruber donut that the big bolt goes through is the compliance bushing.
IT costs $11.31 but yeah its deep in the control arm, plus it is press fitted.
I wonder why, but mine have cracks in them too, I wonder if throwing on the brakes pretty hard will destroy these things? Why do they make them so cheep? dam.
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Originally Posted by edicivic2k1
Yeah, the compliance bushing is what i was thinking would cause the caster to go out of alignment, its #12 in the attached picture.
IT costs $11.31 but yeah its deep in the control arm, plus it is press fitted.
I wonder why, but mine have cracks in them too, I wonder if throwing on the brakes pretty hard will destroy these things? Why do they make them so cheep? dam.
IT costs $11.31 but yeah its deep in the control arm, plus it is press fitted.
I wonder why, but mine have cracks in them too, I wonder if throwing on the brakes pretty hard will destroy these things? Why do they make them so cheep? dam.
Originally Posted by robbclark1
They all have some kind of cracks. If anyone is going to replace them, just replace them all at once. You need a press. You can get OEM or ES has a poly set.
do you think the poly's would or would not destroy the vehicle? for example, i wouldnt use poly motor mounts because i hear too much chat about how too much engine noise and roughness is transferred to the body. do you think there would be any bad side effects of using poly lca compliance bushings?
hmm.
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Originally Posted by edicivic2k1
robbclark,
do you think the poly's would or would not destroy the vehicle? for example, i wouldnt use poly motor mounts because i hear too much chat about how too much engine noise and roughness is transferred to the body. do you think there would be any bad side effects of using poly lca compliance bushings?
hmm.
do you think the poly's would or would not destroy the vehicle? for example, i wouldnt use poly motor mounts because i hear too much chat about how too much engine noise and roughness is transferred to the body. do you think there would be any bad side effects of using poly lca compliance bushings?
hmm.
Originally Posted by robbclark1
There are ups and downs to poly. Whether you want to deal with the harsh ride is up to you. However, the weight transfer of the car is dealt with by the shocks/springs and bushings. There should be no other ill effects from the bushings as long as the suspension and the bushings are comparable...meaning that some suspensions may not like poly as much as others. I personally like poly because they last longer and don't tear. Motor mounts just shake the car and are loud, but should have no ill effects on the chassis/frame.
do you have the poly lca compliance bushing installed on your civic?
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Originally Posted by edicivic2k1
robbclark,
do you have the poly lca compliance bushing installed on your civic?
do you have the poly lca compliance bushing installed on your civic?
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Originally Posted by cubanmike26
I got my car aligned today once again and camber & toe are within specs. The problem is my car was pulling to the right and I thought it'd have been fixed once aligned. The mechanic told me there's a problem with caster on the RF wheel which is about (0.25") behind compared to the left wheel. 0.25" may not sound like much, but when it come to suspension, I know this is trouble. He recommended taking the car to pull the frame?? and bring the RF wheel to caster specs. Can you guys advice me on the matter. I'm really concerned about this. By the way, the car is pulling to the right even more than before, even after the alignment was done..
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Originally Posted by tfnaaf
I would suggest taking it to another alignment shop, caster isnt measured inches as you have stated that he told you. Typicaly if there is a difference in caster it would take .5 of a degree or more difference from right to left to cause a pull. My guess is that its not that the car is pulling but that when you center the steering wheel the car STEERS to the side that you may think is a pull, OR you have a tire problem. Post up the EXZACT specs he set it to and describe more specific what you mean by it pulls more now after the alignment. Not to talk down to you , but i deal with this on a daily basis and customers dont always know what a pull, crooked wheel, shake, shimmy, noise, blah, blah, blah is.
you're a genious! want to do my alignment?
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Originally Posted by robbclark1
you're a genious! want to do my alignment?
kidding a side, I know my alignment angles and what causes certain results. Been in the business for ....counting fingers and toes..... 19 years or there abouts...... yes that makes me WAY to old 
But if you ever make it out to IDAHO ill give you a free alignment 
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Originally Posted by tfnaaf
im the first to admit i know pretty much NOTHING and claim to know even less kidding a side, I know my alignment angles and what causes certain results. Been in the business for ....counting fingers and toes..... 19 years or there abouts...... yes that makes me WAY to old But if you ever make it out to IDAHO ill give you a free alignment
kidding a side, I know my alignment angles and what causes certain results. Been in the business for ....counting fingers and toes..... 19 years or there abouts...... yes that makes me WAY to old But if you ever make it out to IDAHO ill give you a free alignment 
tfnaaf....haha. You are the alignment god of 7thgen. Everyone needs to listen to this man!
Originally Posted by robbclark1
i have the rears installed, not the fronts. They have been in a box for 2 years...
tell me, who did your rears--was it difficult? did you notice more noise or just performance? do you have any regrets on installing the poly? where did you get them?
Thanks man,
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From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 What's the problem? You are obviously within range. My caster always ended up being around 2. I don't see a problem but maybe tfnaaf does.
Edicivic2k1,
The rears are a pain in the ***. There are 3 bushings. 2 are easy and 1 is a biotch. I made a DIY on here with pics. If you need more info let me know. As for the noise it is hard to tell whether it is from the poly, the coilovers, the exhaust hitting the sway, or my fvcked up rear deck. I have tons of noises and I jsut turn the music up...hahaha.
Edicivic2k1,
The rears are a pain in the ***. There are 3 bushings. 2 are easy and 1 is a biotch. I made a DIY on here with pics. If you need more info let me know. As for the noise it is hard to tell whether it is from the poly, the coilovers, the exhaust hitting the sway, or my fvcked up rear deck. I have tons of noises and I jsut turn the music up...hahaha.
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Originally Posted by cubanmike26
Here's a copy of the alignment specs..
Next..... More negative caster will cause a pull. Your caster has .6 degree lead to the right.
My guess from looking at the numbers is that IF it were to pull because of the alignment it would pull right. Im not totally convinced that it is the alignmnet causing the pull, but it could be. Where i would start is take it back to the shop or try another shop, and make sure that they understand that the car is pulling right, if it were mine i would bump the left camber up to maybe +.1 camber, and maybe drop the right to about -.2 camber. With the .3 of a degree lead left now with camber the car SHOULD drive straight considering the caster difference. It's still posible that there may be something else causing the pull thou. from what ive seen on our cars they arent all that sensative to the little differences in camber and caster but its possible that your car is. The more likely cause would be a tire causing the pull. Easy way to find out is swap the 2 frt tires right to left and drive it again. IF the car drives straight or pulls the other way you will know its the tires causing the pull.
My next concernt is WHY did SAI change 1.0 degree from the before to the actual reading on the right. SAI stands for steering axis inclination. What this is , is the angle generated from the lower and upper piviot points. Im assuming that you have a camber kit and they made an adjustment. This shouldnt move the upper or lower piviot point. You may want to re-check the front end to make sure that the lower control arm bushings, lower ball joint, and upper strut plates aren't worn out. If they are this would explain why the sai changed
Shinier than yours, meatbag
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Rep Power: 295 I skimed this thread but do you have perfectly even psi in your tires?.....if my tires are off even a few psi it drives me nuts feeling that tiny pull to the side......thats my 2 pesos
tfnaff, Thanks for your explanation. Reading on the first page you mentioned that some drivers may not know the differerence between pulling and steering. To be honest, I may be one of those drivers, since I thought the concept was the same.
Here's is exactly what's happenning when I drive on a smooth straight road to test the car:
As I center the steering wheel to straighten the tires(which by the way; it's not completely centered, it's kind of tilted to the left about (2-3 degrees) with the tires straight and it's been like that ever since I bought the car), after putting the car on gear and giving it some gas and slowly gains about 15-20mph, I let go of the steering wheel. As soon as I do, the s.w starts to tilt to the right by itself. It was doing this before the alignment, but now it's even more noticeable(twice as much I would say). By the way, I just had new Falken Ziex 512 on my car and they have 32psi all around, hence the reason for the alignment, so my tires would be wearing out properly for the next few months..
I will take the car to some "Honda specialists" around here and have it inspected throughly..I will keep guys posted..thanks again for the help guys.
Mike.
Here's is exactly what's happenning when I drive on a smooth straight road to test the car:
As I center the steering wheel to straighten the tires(which by the way; it's not completely centered, it's kind of tilted to the left about (2-3 degrees) with the tires straight and it's been like that ever since I bought the car), after putting the car on gear and giving it some gas and slowly gains about 15-20mph, I let go of the steering wheel. As soon as I do, the s.w starts to tilt to the right by itself. It was doing this before the alignment, but now it's even more noticeable(twice as much I would say). By the way, I just had new Falken Ziex 512 on my car and they have 32psi all around, hence the reason for the alignment, so my tires would be wearing out properly for the next few months..
I will take the car to some "Honda specialists" around here and have it inspected throughly..I will keep guys posted..thanks again for the help guys.
Mike.
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Originally Posted by cubanmike26
tfnaff, Thanks for your explanation. Reading on the first page you mentioned that some drivers may not know the differerence between pulling and steering. To be honest, I may be one of those drivers, since I thought the concept was the same.
Here's is exactly what's happenning when I drive on a smooth straight road to test the car:
As I center the steering wheel to straighten the tires(which by the way; it's not completely centered, it's kind of tilted to the left about (2-3 degrees) with the tires straight and it's been like that ever since I bought the car), after putting the car on gear and giving it some gas and slowly gains about 15-20mph, I let go of the steering wheel. As soon as I do, the s.w starts to tilt to the right by itself. It was doing this before the alignment, but now it's even more noticeable(twice as much I would say). By the way, I just had new Falken Ziex 512 on my car and they have 32psi all around, hence the reason for the alignment, so my tires would be wearing out properly for the next few months..
I will take the car to some "Honda specialists" around here and have it inspected throughly..I will keep guys posted..thanks again for the help guys.
Mike.
Here's is exactly what's happenning when I drive on a smooth straight road to test the car:
As I center the steering wheel to straighten the tires(which by the way; it's not completely centered, it's kind of tilted to the left about (2-3 degrees) with the tires straight and it's been like that ever since I bought the car), after putting the car on gear and giving it some gas and slowly gains about 15-20mph, I let go of the steering wheel. As soon as I do, the s.w starts to tilt to the right by itself. It was doing this before the alignment, but now it's even more noticeable(twice as much I would say). By the way, I just had new Falken Ziex 512 on my car and they have 32psi all around, hence the reason for the alignment, so my tires would be wearing out properly for the next few months..
I will take the car to some "Honda specialists" around here and have it inspected throughly..I will keep guys posted..thanks again for the help guys.
Mike.
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Rep Power: 338 well are you lowered? if you are.. take out the struts and make sure they are lined up properly.. YES if the top of the strut mount is rotated a little it will throw off EVERYTHING
