rev-matching
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rev-matching
i heard about rev-matching a few days ago..
im newbie at shifting so i wanna get some info about it..
it sounds like rev match is a must for mt driver..
i only have 250miles on my car..thats means i ve driven mt car only that long..
like two week..
i still get stalled when i get frustrated..
i think my shifting is shitting so it hurt my car quite much..
plz let me kno some mt stuff such as rev match..like how to do it or so..
im newbie at shifting so i wanna get some info about it..
it sounds like rev match is a must for mt driver..
i only have 250miles on my car..thats means i ve driven mt car only that long..
like two week..
i still get stalled when i get frustrated..
i think my shifting is shitting so it hurt my car quite much..
plz let me kno some mt stuff such as rev match..like how to do it or so..
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Rep Power: 338 Umm.. not all MT cars need to rev match. Just take your time. Rev- match to shift and stuff.... match engine speed with tire speed (plz correct me if I'm wrong on that). Umm... to rev match it takes practice. But if you must, for a downshift, just tap in the clutch, press gas & shift, then release clutch, but it's gonna take practice
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Right now, I'd advise you to not try to Rev match. It sounds like you allready have enough going through your head and you dont need something like Rev matching or heel toe shifting to confuse you more.
Something I did to help my friend learn to drive stick is this.
Go to an empty flat parking lot. Your going to learn your friction zone like its the back of you hand. (it will help you to not stall the car at a stop).
1. Put the car in nutural, and start it.
2 with it Idoling, push in the clutch and put it in first.
3. With out pushing on the gas, slowly release the clutch... (Watch your RPM's!!!)
4. at some point, you will see you're RPM's start to drop, Thats the start of the FRiction zone!
its the point where the clutch and the Flywheel start to grip eachother and apply power to the wheels.
5. try to get the car rolling without using the gas, Just the friction zone. (Dont worry, you are going to stall it, Just keep trying).
Once you get that down, starting from a stop/hill or any thing else should be a breeez...
Something I did to help my friend learn to drive stick is this.
Go to an empty flat parking lot. Your going to learn your friction zone like its the back of you hand. (it will help you to not stall the car at a stop).
1. Put the car in nutural, and start it.
2 with it Idoling, push in the clutch and put it in first.
3. With out pushing on the gas, slowly release the clutch... (Watch your RPM's!!!)
4. at some point, you will see you're RPM's start to drop, Thats the start of the FRiction zone!
its the point where the clutch and the Flywheel start to grip eachother and apply power to the wheels.
5. try to get the car rolling without using the gas, Just the friction zone. (Dont worry, you are going to stall it, Just keep trying).
Once you get that down, starting from a stop/hill or any thing else should be a breeez...
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Rep Power: 0 oh yeh zzyzx..
i read an article stated exactly what u said..
i read it before i got my car so i practiced it..
but its kinda hard "for my foot" to memorize and feel it..
hehe..
am i dumb?
i read an article stated exactly what u said..
i read it before i got my car so i practiced it..
but its kinda hard "for my foot" to memorize and feel it..
hehe..
am i dumb?
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Rep Power: 423 Originally posted by Pinoypryd
well since we are on the subject of people undergoin the transition from auto to mt...do you see any autos performin in the cones Zzyzx?
well since we are on the subject of people undergoin the transition from auto to mt...do you see any autos performin in the cones Zzyzx?
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Rep Power: 0 I'm also learning the MT but am having trouble finding that friction point. I read an article from the website that talked about using only the clutch and no gas to find that friction point, but i agree that the hardest part is remembering that zone. One thing that i was doing was before pressing the gas, i would let the clutch out a little bit, and then start pressing the gas slowly why letting the clutch out. So it's kind of like letting the engine catch the transmission (or other way around).
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Rep Power: 0 hm..and one strange thing..while i drive mt is that..
when i m in 3rd gear and depress the gas..(so all 3 pedals are free..)
then surely rpm goes down..and when the rpm decreases down to about 1.5-1.8k..then my shifter vibrates..
car doesnt vibrate but only shifter..i cant see it vibrating but when i put my hand on it..i can feel it doing that..
it doesnt happen when im in 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th..only in 3rd it happens..is it normal?
how do i get it correct? press the clutch slightly or accelerate a bit to increase rpm?
when i m in 3rd gear and depress the gas..(so all 3 pedals are free..)
then surely rpm goes down..and when the rpm decreases down to about 1.5-1.8k..then my shifter vibrates..
car doesnt vibrate but only shifter..i cant see it vibrating but when i put my hand on it..i can feel it doing that..
it doesnt happen when im in 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th..only in 3rd it happens..is it normal?
how do i get it correct? press the clutch slightly or accelerate a bit to increase rpm?
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Rep Power: 0 That is exactly how i've taught 4 of my friends to drive stick, word for word.
Originally posted by Zzyzx
Right now, I'd advise you to not try to Rev match. It sounds like you allready have enough going through your head and you dont need something like Rev matching or heel toe shifting to confuse you more.
Something I did to help my friend learn to drive stick is this.
Go to an empty flat parking lot. Your going to learn your friction zone like its the back of you hand. (it will help you to not stall the car at a stop).
1. Put the car in nutural, and start it.
2 with it Idoling, push in the clutch and put it in first.
3. With out pushing on the gas, slowly release the clutch... (Watch your RPM's!!!)
4. at some point, you will see you're RPM's start to drop, Thats the start of the FRiction zone!
its the point where the clutch and the Flywheel start to grip eachother and apply power to the wheels.
5. try to get the car rolling without using the gas, Just the friction zone. (Dont worry, you are going to stall it, Just keep trying).
Once you get that down, starting from a stop/hill or any thing else should be a breeez...
Right now, I'd advise you to not try to Rev match. It sounds like you allready have enough going through your head and you dont need something like Rev matching or heel toe shifting to confuse you more.
Something I did to help my friend learn to drive stick is this.
Go to an empty flat parking lot. Your going to learn your friction zone like its the back of you hand. (it will help you to not stall the car at a stop).
1. Put the car in nutural, and start it.
2 with it Idoling, push in the clutch and put it in first.
3. With out pushing on the gas, slowly release the clutch... (Watch your RPM's!!!)
4. at some point, you will see you're RPM's start to drop, Thats the start of the FRiction zone!
its the point where the clutch and the Flywheel start to grip eachother and apply power to the wheels.
5. try to get the car rolling without using the gas, Just the friction zone. (Dont worry, you are going to stall it, Just keep trying).
Once you get that down, starting from a stop/hill or any thing else should be a breeez...
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Rep Power: 0 Downshifting is just going from a higher gear, to a lower gear. That's it...
There are variations such as engine braking, which is using the engine's higher rpms in one gear to slow the car down. So, that's like going from 5th to 2nd, and not giving it any gas, our cars don't engine brake very well since they're not very powerful.
On a 5th to 2nd downshift, I usually double clutch since there is such a large difference in RPMS, as far as double cluthing, I don't want to get to into it too deep, but it's basically like this.
In my hx,
in 5th gear, at 50 MPH, i'm running at 2000 RPMS,
in 2nd gear, at 50 MPH i'm running at 5000 RPMS,
SO, you push the clutch in, pull it out of gear (or just pull it out of gear)
let clutch out
Rev to lower gear's rpm at speed +a little more
Clutch in
Shift to gear (2nd)
Clutch out
This should reduce the wear on your synchromesh's you really only need to do this when doing a large downshift like 5th to 2nd, or if you ever want it get into first gear when you're going above 10mph
I know you didn't ask for that, but the more people who know about it, the more people who can make fun of the fast and the furious...
-Mark
There are variations such as engine braking, which is using the engine's higher rpms in one gear to slow the car down. So, that's like going from 5th to 2nd, and not giving it any gas, our cars don't engine brake very well since they're not very powerful.
On a 5th to 2nd downshift, I usually double clutch since there is such a large difference in RPMS, as far as double cluthing, I don't want to get to into it too deep, but it's basically like this.
In my hx,
in 5th gear, at 50 MPH, i'm running at 2000 RPMS,
in 2nd gear, at 50 MPH i'm running at 5000 RPMS,
SO, you push the clutch in, pull it out of gear (or just pull it out of gear)
let clutch out
Rev to lower gear's rpm at speed +a little more
Clutch in
Shift to gear (2nd)
Clutch out
This should reduce the wear on your synchromesh's you really only need to do this when doing a large downshift like 5th to 2nd, or if you ever want it get into first gear when you're going above 10mph
I know you didn't ask for that, but the more people who know about it, the more people who can make fun of the fast and the furious...
-Mark
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Rep Power: 380 Originally posted by Civic_Si_Veloz
So for rev matching, is it just to reduce wear on your brake pads by passing the work down to the engine? Doesn't this just increase your stopping distance?
So for rev matching, is it just to reduce wear on your brake pads by passing the work down to the engine? Doesn't this just increase your stopping distance?
well since we are on the subject of people undergoin the transition from auto to mt...do you see any autos performin in the cones Zzyzx?
hm..and one strange thing..while i drive mt is that..
when i m in 3rd gear and depress the gas..(so all 3 pedals are free..)
then surely rpm goes down..and when the rpm decreases down to about 1.5-1.8k..then my shifter vibrates..
car doesnt vibrate but only shifter..i cant see it vibrating but when i put my hand on it..i can feel it doing that..
it doesnt happen when im in 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th..only in 3rd it happens..is it normal?
how do i get it correct? press the clutch slightly or accelerate a bit to increase rpm?
when i m in 3rd gear and depress the gas..(so all 3 pedals are free..)
then surely rpm goes down..and when the rpm decreases down to about 1.5-1.8k..then my shifter vibrates..
car doesnt vibrate but only shifter..i cant see it vibrating but when i put my hand on it..i can feel it doing that..
it doesnt happen when im in 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th..only in 3rd it happens..is it normal?
how do i get it correct? press the clutch slightly or accelerate a bit to increase rpm?
How do you exactly downshift? I downshift by just putting the gears down from 5th to 2nd till I slowly stop is there a proper techinque to it?
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Zzyzx
its sounds like your boging the engine. if your at 1.5-1.8K then you should be in a lower gear.
its sounds like your boging the engine. if your at 1.5-1.8K then you should be in a lower gear.
i dont kno how to downshift correctly
so if i lower it to 2nd then engine brake applies on my car..
maybe my clutch control is wrong when im doing that..
but when i do that car's movement feels really different..
i cant explain it in english but it feels like..the car becomes really heavier when i downshift to 2nd from 3rd to avoid that vibration of shifter..
dont kno what to do with mt car..hehe
somebody plz tell me what to do and what not to do in m/t car..
i kno its very huge topic but just part of them is fine..
like..do such things in such situation..
sorry if im annoying u..
Autocross Junky
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Rep Power: 380 The only time you do engine breaking is when you down shift and then dont apply any gas.
Down shifting is really not a big deal, Renamazazo has the tecneque for Rev matching down. the Idea is that you are going from a Higher gear to a lower gear with your speed remaining the same. to do this smoothly you need to equalize the RPM's between the transmission and the Engine, because in the lower gear the transmission will be spinning at a higher RPM's then the engine. to do this we Rev the engine to the approximat RPM's that the transmission is spinning at when you down shift. Its just like up shifting, but with a quick "Blip" on the gas when the clutch is pushed in.
Other Techneques like Heel toe shifting you probably will not need to konw. (I had to explain it to my mom last week, shes driven MT's for like for ever and had never heard of it). If you plan on racing (Autocross/Road racing) then you probably should learn how to do it. other wise you probably will never need to down shift mid corner.
Just keep at it, you cant expect to learn all the Techneques in one day. It took me a couple of weeks to get rev matching down (I still screw up some times) and then it took me about a month to get Heel toe shifting down.
Down shifting is really not a big deal, Renamazazo has the tecneque for Rev matching down. the Idea is that you are going from a Higher gear to a lower gear with your speed remaining the same. to do this smoothly you need to equalize the RPM's between the transmission and the Engine, because in the lower gear the transmission will be spinning at a higher RPM's then the engine. to do this we Rev the engine to the approximat RPM's that the transmission is spinning at when you down shift. Its just like up shifting, but with a quick "Blip" on the gas when the clutch is pushed in.
Other Techneques like Heel toe shifting you probably will not need to konw. (I had to explain it to my mom last week, shes driven MT's for like for ever and had never heard of it). If you plan on racing (Autocross/Road racing) then you probably should learn how to do it. other wise you probably will never need to down shift mid corner.
Just keep at it, you cant expect to learn all the Techneques in one day. It took me a couple of weeks to get rev matching down (I still screw up some times) and then it took me about a month to get Heel toe shifting down.
I like ruining your threads.
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Rep Power: 0 Good place to practice heel/toe and rev matching are freeway offramps. You can come in hard and work the heel/toe, or just slowly cruise in and practice your rev matching. Heel/toe shifting takes a LOT of practice to be good at. Once you drive your car enough, you'll know exactly what RPM your car will be at in X gear, at X speed.
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Rep Power: 0 u can heel/toe on every traffic light, and turns, just get a hang of it, i use to do that a month ago, every single traffic light and turns, just to practice for autox, and very soon you will be doing it very smoothly
Im having a hard time with the heel toe thing...Do you use your heel on the break and then toe on gas...or heel on gas and toe on break....Theres a vid of a guy racing and he was doing heel on gas and toe on break....i feel like its harder for me cause my shoe size is big...out of curosity what size shoe are you Zzyzx, boilermaker?
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Don't use your heel for any thing. thats the old techneque.
I use the ball of my foot on the brake, and roll the outer part of my foot (The pinky toe side) on the gas. easy, as long as you have wide enought feet.
Don't use your heel for any thing. thats the old techneque.
I use the ball of my foot on the brake, and roll the outer part of my foot (The pinky toe side) on the gas. easy, as long as you have wide enought feet.
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Rep Power: 0 Hrm.. Okay, please tell me if i'm wrong but i think i have found the difference between rev matching and engine braking. Rev matching involves gas as you downshift, and engine braking doesn't. Is the difference between the two due to the fact that after rev-matching you plan to accelerate again (without stopping) whereas when you engine brake, you just want to stop?
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Rep Power: 0 analyzing what i heard from zzyzx, rev-matching needs gas cuz of not only a plan to accelerate again, but also, more importantly, to raise the (engine) rpm to match with transmission's rpm..
however for the engine brake, since u have to stop the car in very short time, u dont match the rpm so higher engine's rpm meets lower transmission's rpm, as a result u give a kinda huge force to the engine not to rev any longer..and this is where engine brake is considered as kinda bad stuff to the engine..
is this right? im just analyzing from what i heard in this post..so maybe im wrong..
however for the engine brake, since u have to stop the car in very short time, u dont match the rpm so higher engine's rpm meets lower transmission's rpm, as a result u give a kinda huge force to the engine not to rev any longer..and this is where engine brake is considered as kinda bad stuff to the engine..
is this right? im just analyzing from what i heard in this post..so maybe im wrong..
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From: Redmond, Washington, US
Rep Power: 0 I can drive my best in my sandals because they're wider then the rest of my shoes (the rest of my shoes consists of steel toed boots...)
I do the same thing, I use the side of my foot, much easier than pivoting the whole foot around.
I do the same thing, I use the side of my foot, much easier than pivoting the whole foot around.
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Rep Power: 0 rev matching is used only for downshifting... if you don't touch the gas pedal (not rev matching) and just downshift and let go of the clutch, your car will jerk... you sort of have to guess (or memorize) how much rpm the gear your going to downshift into is going to be at when you let go of the clutch... (hope that makes sense)
for example, if your in 5th and going 60 mph... the rpm is at about 2.5k (don't quite remember, heh)... say you want to downshift to 2nd... the rpm of 2nd at 60mph is around 5-6k...
so what you do is, (without concern to double clutching)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
as to what you do after you rev match and downshift is up to you...
which means you can rev match to downshift and then accelerate
or you can rev match to downshift and then let go of the gas (engine brake)
if you get the rev match perfectly right, your car should not jerk around at all... takes some practice and getting used to...
now if you want to add dbl clutching to the equation to save sychromesh (i just added the ones in * to the sequence above)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
*release the clutch
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
*press the clutch back
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
now of course, if your only shifting down one gear, you don't have to hit the gas as hard to rev match....
for example, if your in 5th and going 60 mph... the rpm is at about 2.5k (don't quite remember, heh)... say you want to downshift to 2nd... the rpm of 2nd at 60mph is around 5-6k...
so what you do is, (without concern to double clutching)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
as to what you do after you rev match and downshift is up to you...
which means you can rev match to downshift and then accelerate
or you can rev match to downshift and then let go of the gas (engine brake)
if you get the rev match perfectly right, your car should not jerk around at all... takes some practice and getting used to...
now if you want to add dbl clutching to the equation to save sychromesh (i just added the ones in * to the sequence above)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
*release the clutch
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
*press the clutch back
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
now of course, if your only shifting down one gear, you don't have to hit the gas as hard to rev match....
Last edited by CivicHX01; Aug 23, 2003 at 04:15 AM.
Autocross Junky
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Rep Power: 380 Originally posted by CivicHX01
rev matching is used only for downshifting... if you don't touch the gas pedal (not rev matching) and just downshift and let go of the clutch, your car will jerk... you sort of have to guess (or memorize) how much rpm the gear your going to downshift into is going to be at when you let go of the clutch... (hope that makes sense)
for example, if your in 5th and going 60 mph... the rpm is at about 2.5k (don't quite remember, heh)... say you want to downshift to 2nd... the rpm of 2nd at 60mph is around 5-6k...
so what you do is, (without concern to double clutching)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
as to what you do after you rev match and downshift is up to you...
which means you can rev match to downshift and then accelerate
or you can rev match to downshift and then let go of the gas (engine brake)
if you get the rev match perfectly right, your car should not jerk around at all... takes some practice and getting used to...
now if you want to add dbl clutching to the equation to save sychromesh (i just added the ones in * to the sequence above)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
*release the clutch
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
*press the clutch back
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
now of course, if your only shifting down one gear, you don't have to hit the gas as hard to rev match....
rev matching is used only for downshifting... if you don't touch the gas pedal (not rev matching) and just downshift and let go of the clutch, your car will jerk... you sort of have to guess (or memorize) how much rpm the gear your going to downshift into is going to be at when you let go of the clutch... (hope that makes sense)
for example, if your in 5th and going 60 mph... the rpm is at about 2.5k (don't quite remember, heh)... say you want to downshift to 2nd... the rpm of 2nd at 60mph is around 5-6k...
so what you do is, (without concern to double clutching)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
as to what you do after you rev match and downshift is up to you...
which means you can rev match to downshift and then accelerate
or you can rev match to downshift and then let go of the gas (engine brake)
if you get the rev match perfectly right, your car should not jerk around at all... takes some practice and getting used to...
now if you want to add dbl clutching to the equation to save sychromesh (i just added the ones in * to the sequence above)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
*release the clutch
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
*press the clutch back
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
now of course, if your only shifting down one gear, you don't have to hit the gas as hard to rev match....
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Zzyzx
10..
Don't use your heel for any thing. thats the old techneque.
I use the ball of my foot on the brake, and roll the outer part of my foot (The pinky toe side) on the gas. easy, as long as you have wide enought feet.
10..
Don't use your heel for any thing. thats the old techneque.
I use the ball of my foot on the brake, and roll the outer part of my foot (The pinky toe side) on the gas. easy, as long as you have wide enought feet.
also, having the throttle cable tightened makes heel/toe much easier...
edit: now to add heel/toe to the sequence for braking before a corner or during a corner(added +)
+press the brake with the top half of your right foot (toes)
1. press and hold the clutch
2. shift into neutral
+use your heel or bottom half of your right foot to do step 3
3. hit the gas until the rpm is in the area of 5-6k
4. shift into 2nd
5. release clutch
there you have it... rev matching, double clutching, and heel/toe in one thread
Last edited by CivicHX01; Aug 24, 2003 at 12:27 AM.
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Rep Power: 0 heel/toe is tough...when i use to drive a stick and take a quick *** corner i just use the brake pedal first then quickly shift my foot back to gas real quick...its not as fast as heel/toe technique but easier...
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From: Redmond, Washington, US
Rep Power: 0 syncromesh is what allows your gears to mesh together without making a GOD AWFUL noise (to put it simply) what it does, is it slows or speeds up the gear your going into so the collar's can mesh... not sure if that helped...
Double clutching saves them because your using the engine and flywheel to spin them to the right speed rather then the synchromesh
This isn't the best way of explaining it, but understanding how a manual transmission works takes some time... I reccomend going to www.howstuffworks.com and reading everything they have in the automotive section.
Double clutching saves them because your using the engine and flywheel to spin them to the right speed rather then the synchromesh
This isn't the best way of explaining it, but understanding how a manual transmission works takes some time... I reccomend going to www.howstuffworks.com and reading everything they have in the automotive section.
