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Ok .. so you all know about my 1st nightmare at tuning when i popped a head gasket .. with the arps and new head gasket .. today was TUNE day ... so i got tuned and everything ... and my tuner taught me how to use the AFR guage ... but i wanted to know greater detail as to what everything means ... i just know the basics ..

When its idling --- im in 15s, 14s
When im cruising -- 13-15s
When i floor it -- stays at 10.0.. then slowly goes up

do those seem right .???
now here's the problem i feel .. i dunno anything thats why im asking u guys ...
when i partial gas into boost, it goes from the 10s to 11s and climbs to 15 before i let go of the gas ... isn't this a problem ?? i wasn't sure so i posted it .. tell me input guy .. i dunno anything about tuning .. what should i do? my tuner said either don't boost or if ur gona boost .. floor it .. but at times i wanna just semi boost to hear my BOV but then it goes too lean like 15s .. i've only driven tonight with it .. i just came from the dyno.

Im running srt-4 injectors with AEM F/IC @5-6 psi

Belted out 186.1 whp // 171.4 wtq

 
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i think you're confused. i don't know much either, but i do know that the lowerthe number, the richer you're getting and 14.7 is considered "a perfect ratio" of air to fuel. though i think you're still having problems since i've never heard of anyone actually hitting 15+, even at the high end of the rev range.

*edit: sorry guys, apparently I had it backwards. I was quite tired when I typed that, but my mistake has been noted. I shall commence the "Our Father" and "Hail Mary" prayers immediately.

 
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Woah woah GREATER THAN 14.7 this is considered lean and less than 14.7 is considered RICH. Tuning for partial throttle is the hardest part for our cars. The AEM F/IC has 02 skewing so make sure you have it setup properly bc running 15's at partial throttle boost will result in another blown headgasket. In addition a 10.0 afr is very rich especially running only 5 to 6 pounds and probably hurting your hp numbers. Take it to another tuner to clean that map up. Your tuner is right though what he said but if telling you to don't boost at all or floor it would be unacceptable to me since I'm paying him to make my car safe for daily driving.

 
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@Tuningmycivic. Negative man, you've got it backwards. Complete combustion is 14.72, also referred to as Stoichiometric. Anything higher than that is a lean condition.

You want to be around 11.5 under full boost. Your tuner saying floor it or don't boost is just plain laziness from not wanting to tune for partial throttle boost. Partial throttle is a little more difficult to tune with a piggyback, but not impossible. As of right now, and I'm not fully tuned, I rarely go WOT and pretty much always do partial throttle boost and I stay around 11.5 - 12 throughout the entire RPM band. In fact 10.0 for WOT seems a bit rich in my opinion if it stays there for a while. On the initial WOT, it may jump to the 10s but should immediately go back to and stay around 11.5 .

If you're going WOT all the time, you will get crap for mileage. Even with partial throttle boost your gas mileage will suffer, I got 20 mpg on this last tank because I was playing around a lot. Those SRT-4 kitchen faucets can dump a lot of fuel.

Your idle looks fine as long as its smooth and so does your normal vac-driving (aka cruising under no boost).

Nice numbers by the way though.

Hit back with more questions and I'm sure some of the boost veterans will weigh in as well, since I'm still a boost noob.

 
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ok .. im going to play with it a lil more .. the idle is just fine 13-15s .. so i know its good .. WOT . it goes to 10 but then climbs to 11-12 .. its only partial throttle .. how would i fix that i paid 500 for my tune ...

 
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is it a big problem .. like when i partial throttle .. it goes 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 .. like at around 5000 its at 15 and i let go off gas RIGHT away cuz i get scared .. and it climbs so fasttt

 
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THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM. Look at your map and make sure your timing is retarded at least in that range where its spiking lean. Everything else seems on par with your car EXCEPT partial throttle. Try adding some fuel (alot of fuel) to richen that up. The ecu will still try to correct but its worth a shot.

 
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To all the noobs please note the utter importance of having a wideband gauge hooked up in your car. Emjay probably saved himself alot of headaches bc he hasn't blown up yet just by monitoring his air/fuel ratios.

 
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fukkk man im so pissed .. so basically till i get that fixed, avoid driving partial throttle .. its sooooooooo bullshit .. cuz i don't wanna not go into boost and drive like a baby, and i don't wanna have to floor everytime to hear my BOV .. i just wanna cruise man and it goes lean !

 
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ITS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT .. OMG OMG OMG .. its like ur mom holdign ur hand wen ur a lil boy to cross the street ... this guage holds ur hand when it boost .. if i didn't have one .. i wouldve blown a gasket .. just cuz i see it to lean and let go may have been saving me .. so i started boosting only WOT ... im trying to avoid partial till i get her fixed ..

 
Rep Power: 280

Don't fret man. Do you have a laptop? Send your map to Paul (dezod) or Chris (Wilminchris) and I'm sure they can richen that up for you if you are not sure what to do.

 
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It should NOT be anywhere near 15 on the AFR at 5000 RPMs - partial throttle or not - it should be 12.5 - 13 at the very most. The way tuning works is that your tuner should program your car to give X amount of fuel at the intersection of Y amount of engine load and Z amount of RPMs in order to reach the target A/F ratio. Whether that's WOT or partial throttle shouldn't really matter.

lIf you paid $500 for your tune, I would go back and raise hell and get that chimp to re-tune your car since he didn't do it right the first time.

 
Rep Power: 243

ok my tuner said he'll take care of me, he's the best .. U guys wanna know the 2nd scare i got at the dyno last nite ... the first time at the dyno 2 weeks ago .. headgasket, now last nnighttt we're doing my FINALL.. FINAL PULL ...and 2 of my vac lines snapped .. like the T-fittings !!! i got sooo lucky because they broke RIGHT after he let go... so it only shut up to 7.5 psi .. PHEW ... imagine if it happened during the run .. goodbye engine rite??? but omg its sooo fast .. do u guy have any tips for a noobie to make sure nothing goes wrong .. like other than the AFR wideband.. which i went and got .. wat else do i do

 
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Oil temp, oil pressure, and water temp gauges. That way you can always see the car's vital signs.

 
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on a piggy back if your not watching long term /short term injector trim when street tuning your no where close to proper tune and your AFR's will be jumping all over. specialy when coming down to lower rpm speeds after being at freeway cruise speeds. check the link @ the bottom of my sig

 
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Hey thanks so much for all ur inputs guys ... speedfoos .. ill make sure i get on that .. i have the oil pressure img oing to get the water and oil temp as well.. thats smart thinking ...

Ok ... so ronaldo ... i called paul in buffalo asking him a lil about the FIC and his kit .. and paul didn't want to share "his intellectual skills" which didn't make sense to me considerring its his kit, and he should WANT me to run nicely ... but the kit is 10/10 i just wanted a sample for the partial throttle thats all.. anyway .. is there anyone running srt-4 injectors with the AEM FIC ... who could send me a sample map ? it would be very appreciated THANK YOU SO MUCH . this forum is a gifttt

 
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Wasn't your tuner going to actually finish tuning the car?

 
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yah my car was completely done.. 03AcuraEL told me his partial throttle is 12-16 too.. but my tuner said he'll play with it for free to try and fix it... its just i wanted a sample to show him thinking it was just a smart step more for him to have something ..u know ? I got tuned at different loads and the entire rpm range.. at WOT it goes 10.0 and LOCKS at 11.5 -- car runs like STOCK in vac .. and idles perfect .. 14.6s,7s,8s.. it feels like my car runs nicer just cruising then it did before .. im tuned nicely its just the partial thingy i avoid .. as soon as i hit 12.5 i just let go to be safe until i get her fixed next week when my tuner has time.

 
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I think that you may be a little bit to over protective. Im running partial throttle anywhere from 11.5-13's . your AFR is never going to be a set number @ partial throttle. It should varry dependant on load(vacuum,boost/rpm)

 
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11.5-13s is good ... i go into the 15s .. are u using the FIC with srt4 injectors ?? could u email me a copy of ur map please ? mini_johnson@hotmail.com i wanna get this partial thingi fixed asap

 
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15 is ok as long as your not under any load. Im running e-manage with rsx injectors.

 
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what do u mean as long as im not under any load??what does that mean ..im so new to this game, im learning soo much

 
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just driving normally with a lil punch .. makes the afrs go to 15 if i just wanna hear my bov .. even when its 2 psi at 4000 rpm .. cuz it starts at 10-11 .. and just climbs

 
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when they say running under load it pretyt much means under acceleration.. so if your afr hit 15 while not accelerating its ok. while accelerating if your afrs hit 14.7 plus your in trouble. this is a very informative post. thanks for all who contributed. learned a lot.

 
Rep Power: 280

to almost everyone or who doesnt understand the meaning of stoichiometric point 14.7 AFR - this is only a reference point and thats about it. 14.7:1 AFR is normally considered the best trade off between emissions, fuel economy and power production. For different engine's running conditions you need AFR readings. and very often 14.7 is not the best. So, one should never think it is bad, only because they are not at 14.7, again it is only a reference point.

to EMJAY:

I think you're freaking out a little bit with your AFR readings!!! You have very conservative tune. You should be fine.

You only need to worry about AFR when you're in boost...for d17 you can run way leaner in boost, then with k20. This is because d17 and k20 engines have totally different power and tq curves.
Not go detailed, but with 5-6 psi under WOT you will get away running AFR in 12.5-13.5 without blowing head gasket.

Head gaskets blow up practically only when you have your boost gauge entering boost (over Zero) or when you have you are boosting (read as having been in boost for extended period of time, abuse).

About LOAD/NO LOAD. Read here and run a test: whenever you see your boost gauge reading positive pressure (1+ psi, F/IC load factor between 11 and 21) at WOT and not, quickly look at your a/f gauge, make sure you'll stay under roughly low 13's, if you see it climbing over 14's than you may run into problems, but low 13's under load at 5-6 psi with t-3 you'll be OK. Read this sentence again to understand what I'm trying to say.

When you boost gauge reads negative pressure (reading zero and below, F/IC load factor below 11), then you can run as high at 16s or even 17's...basically as long as engine can ignite air/fuel in the cylinder you will run without problems. Reason why you can get away with so high AFR, this is because d17 is set up by Honda to save fuel, stock ECU is programmed (will retard timing) to deliver as less fuel as possible to have engine run and produce good mpg.

To sum up my lecture, make a note:
- whenever boost reading over zero - AFR 13s or under are safe for d17
-whenever boost reading is under zero - AFR of up to 17s are OK to have for d17
- NOT GOOD - remember, running in boost (for rookies: boost gauge at 1+ psi) for extended time periods even with good/safe tune, will result in a blow head gasket, at least.
- GOOD - let engine run without boost for few minutes between the runs, this will cool down engine internals and save you headaches in the future

 
Rep Power: 327

14.7:1 is actually the perfect ratio for complete burn in a gasoline engine. Any ratio above this can cause a lean missfire. The only time you realistically should be 15+:1 is when your @ idle or comming down from a cruise speed with throttle closed. 14.7:1 is FAR from ideal on a boosted car under load. Most people will recommend somewhere from 11.5-12.5:1 under HEAVY load @ WOT. You can run as lean as you want as long as your not knocking. The leaner you run the more power you make. Unfortunately the leaner you run the more risk you take of engine destruction! And this is the case no matter what turbo your running and @ whatever PSI boost your running

 
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ok ...wow that write up was amazing acura 1.7 ... i learnt alot .. When u say whenever you see your boost gauge reading positive pressure -- make sure im not im under 14s.. do u mean flooring it? or just accelarating in boost? cuz if i do accelerate in boost without punching it, i see 15s

 
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emjay. as stated in acura1.7 you only need to be concerned about afr while in boost. you say your boosting and your afr is 15+ thats a lean condition and as we all know lean=go boom, i think in that case your afr is something to worry about. until you get your new tune i think you should stay away from partial throttle boost until your tuner fixes your partial throttle afrs.

btw acura 1.7. great post. this should be stickied or something.

 
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this should be stickied ... under load is basically in boost ... weather partial or wot ?

 
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Correct. When I boost on partial throttle (which is most of the time I do boost), I'm in the 12.5-12.9 range. This way I can still get around 29-30 mpg. If go around going WOT all the time, I get maybe 16-17 mpg. Plus it's harder on the car.