Rep Power: 244

after 3 weeks of installation at my mechanics and my car just sitting there.. never drove just to be safe and today was the day the car went in for the tune.. ... so the dyno is hooked and im excited to see the car go into boost ... and first pull into boost (ONLY 5 psi) ..BOOoom .. the resevoir cap flies off.. and coolent shoots out!!! ... seems awkward .. so the tuner opens the rad cap and adds coolent ... NOTE: i got a brand new timing belt, waterpump, and HEADGASKET... so we thought the car needed to be run for a bit .. left the heater on, added a lil bit , few bubbles, until it stopped looked nice.. cap back on tight, 2nd run .. as soon as i go into BOOST, coolent forces out of the resevoir SOOO much pressure ... my tuner stopped the tune, no one seemed to know what was happening .. i need help the car is at the mechanic just parked there and he doesn't even know about it... I drove the car to the tuner and never went into boost drove in 5th gear no higher than 2500 rpm and i noticed this :S:S the car was cold when i was driving. The needle was less than a quarter way up from Cold and the middle. PLEASE give me any advice u guys may have.. im so upset and disappointed .. im clueless to what it is , and i've spent all my money trying to do this the most proper way

 
Rep Power: 281

Sounds like a headgasket to me. Just because you're boosting 5 psi does not mean the tune was safe. Most likely you were too lean when you hit boost but that is just a hunch, we would need more detailed information regarding your setup/fuel management ect. Sorry to hear about this. Hope you get your car back soon. I also hope you're internals are intact.

 
Rep Power: 301

o ya bad headgasket

 
Rep Power: 244

im running SRT-T 4 injectors and the AEM FIC ... so blown headgasket ... wouldn't the car have to overheat ??? it was driving cold

 
Rep Power: 331

does the cap fly off only when you hit boost?

 
Rep Power: 0

sounds lik the boost is escaping between the head and the block (gasket problem) and forcing the cooling system to become pressurized. Theres only one other place for the liquid/air to go, so pops the cap off the rad. Replace the gasket before running again or your going to mess something else up internally.

 
Rep Power: 424

just because the gasket is new doesnt mean the studs are tight enough, the surface was flat, theres too much timing in the motor, etc....
its not too hard to blow a head gasket. Violently blowing the cap off the overflow bottle is definitely a BIG leak in the headgasket area.

 
Rep Power: 244

ONLY when i hit boost .. its not the main rad cap .. its the lil white resevoir cap ... it flew off the first time .. the second time we put it on REALLY tight .... and coolent just SQUEEZED out .. like the cap wanted to fly off again

 
Rep Power: 244

so ok with this said .. why did i blow my head gasket if it was brand new? and why did it blow the FIRST time i went into 5psi of boost .... and do u think it damaged anything internally?? .... why was the car driving so cold ... it was like:

H


M

------- Needle
C

shouldn't the car overheat if its the head gasket ????? i really hope i didn't **** anything up internally .

 
Rep Power: 424

It sounds like its not seated. either the head is loose, or the deck is not flat. When you took the head off, did you measure the surfaces? or just assume they were ok and put it back together. Did you reuse stock head bolts? or use ARPs? What did you torque them down to? (and did you use a socket extension bar)
Did you scratch the viton coating on the gasket trying to put the head back on?
A car wont overheat immediately, there's still water in there, just not as much as there should be, and it'll boil at 228 (antifreeze) instead of 260ish when under pressure. You're pushing boost into the water jacket, thats why its coming out the bottle. Thats the ONLY way you can force air into the system. Either you did a very bad job bleeding it, or the head gasket is blown. if it only does it when the motor is under boost, then its the head gasket.

 
Rep Power: 0

My HG is leaking and I never come close to overheating. I just have extra coolant in the rezzy now, that I will put back in to the system. At this point you shouldn't have damaged anything though. My HG was less than 4 months old, had maybe 800 miles on it and she went out. Admittedly it was at 12psi and I had re-used the stock bolts when I replaced it.

Did you replace the HG yourself? Did you prep the head and block surfaces to clean all the old gasket material off prior to reinstalling the head? Did you check for obvious signs of warpage with a metal straight edge?

Did you follow the recommended three-stage head bolt torquing - 16, 32 (or 36, can't remember), then 49 ft/lbs when re torquing the head down on the new gasket? Did you also follow the up-down, criss-cross tightening pattern when you torqued it back down?

Although this does suck, I would really love to see a video of that rezzy cap flying off and spraying coolant everywhere! 2 months from now when she's boosted and running fine, you'll watch it and laugh your *** off. Not so funny now though.

 
Rep Power: 314

Sounds like a unanimous decision of a blown head gasket...

 
Rep Power: 281

Listen to w/e boilermaker says as he's been there done that. In addition, detonation causes head lift and resulting in blown headgaskets. Not saying this is the primary cause but a likely one.

 
Rep Power: 0

yeah if your running too lean under boost. got an air/fuel gauge hooked up? were you lookin at it under boost when it poped the cap?

 
Rep Power: 327

I actually saw a demenstration last week where we used a torque wrench set to 100 ft-lbs with no extension between the socket and wrench, and the torque guage, and it read 100 ft-lbs when it clicked. We then put 2 feet of 6" extensions between the wrench and the socket then hooked it back on the guage. It still torqued to 100 ft-lbs. It did require more twist of the wrench but it still aplied the 100 ft-lbs of torque that the wrench was set to.

http://books.google.com/books?id=TXE...bkNUg#PPA18,M1

page 18, second column, under torquing technique

 
Rep Power: 244

Ok ... the head came off today and the block seemed fine ... the head is getting sent out for inspection tmrw ... and hopefully tere is nothing wrong .. i orderred the APR head studs since the head is open cuz i know those will help.. Speedfoos, all of the things u mentioned were followed .. and as far as the too lean thing goes .. i have no idea .. my tuner was in the car tuning, would he have gone into boost too lean and **** things up ??? that i doubt? i really don't know what caused it .. i hope its nothing serious tho

 
Rep Power: 272

i dont know if its just me but it seems that your tuner doesnt know wat he is doing. i mean even my car ran for 1 year without a tune and an FMU and i did all the work myself. if he knew what he was doing it should have been fine. if he was actually tuning the car and it went lean and he still kept going on the throttle it would be on him that your car is messed up because obviously your supposed to stay away from lean conditions. just my .02 cent. if something fvcked up then he should be the one paying/fixing it. i hope your not charged for that stuff..

anyways back to the topic. yeah all end meet to a damaged head gasket. or if worse comes to worse warped head/block. but that can be fixed.

 
Rep Power: 244

hmmmmm .. do u ACTUALLY think it could be my tuner ?? im going for a retune on monday after i get thsi **** fixed.. 1 year without a tune ?? omg the first time they turned on my car it sounded like a BOAT !!! how did u manage that?? how do i find out .. do i ask him was i too lean?? see wat he says?

should i replace teh headgasket with stock or soemthing better? any better ones out there? i can't' believe it just went like that .. it was BRAND NEW changed .. god bless my mechanic, he's the best ever ... www.igarage.ca -- he's taking care of me like no tomrw ..

i dunno why i chose to go boost? will i be happy guys? i want some encouragement .. i hear things like d17 isnt made to boost .. orshoulda went kswap or stock.. add me to ur T.E.A.R.S group !! but dezod won't let me down d17a2 booooost .. hmm .. damm my blow off made ur next door neighbour cumm tho.. mmmm

 
Rep Power: 0

It's definitely possible that your HG went out. I don't remember....are you running a wideband to be able to monitor your AFRs? Was there evidence on the HG that it was blown? In otherwords you should have been able to see around the piston chambers where combustion blew out, causing you coolant to go shooting out of the system.

If you don't have a wideband, he should have at least had a tailpipe sniffer on to determine what your AFRs were. He may not have had time to catch it from leaning out if you were set to boost to 5 psi. It pretty much goes: vac, vac, vac, vac, BOOOOOOST to 5 psi, (let off pedal), vac, vac, vac. However he should have been datalogging what was going on to be able to see what the MAP was sending and reference that against the AFR readings at the time.

IMO, stock HG is more than fine. I'm sure others will chime in and agree.

Yes you will be happy once this beast is up and running fine! Honestly, this sounds like an easy fix. Once the head and block are checked for warpage, new HG and ARPs get put in you should be up and running fine. Get in the T.E.A.R.S. thread, claim your member number, and keep working at it - well, keep buying parts and paying your mechanic.

 
Rep Power: 279

I am a survivor of a blown HG. And I'm still boosted... I love it. I bought the ARP studs for my rebuild and had them professionally installed. Since then, my FORMER turner decided I could run with -6 timing and almost 2 full points lean... and so far as I know nothing blew. No coolant in my reservoir. I beat the **** out of my car with it set like that, revving to 6000k RPMs for like an entire month before I figured out how screwed up my tune was...

So the ARP studs will definitely help you keep your car together if THAT level of abuse didn't pop a second time.

 
Rep Power: 350

Get a wideband o2 sensor and a gauge. Without it, you're totally in the dark and you have no clue what is happening inside your cylinders. There's a reason that everytime you pm'd me I told you to get the kpro over the F/IC and that reason is lean protection....

 
Rep Power: 0

^^^^ Sage advice.

Loving the wideband Andy! Works like a charm!

 
Rep Power: 0

With a proper tune, regardless there would be no need for 'lean protection'. A full standalone like K-Pro and AEM EMS are excellent and second to none without a doubt. (no disputing that) I run a full standalone in my IS300 and enjoy the tunability 1000:1, however ANY EMS is just a dumb box and is only as good as the guy tuning it. Perfect situation is racer Chris Rado is his tC running s $4K standalone Motec, but has been through 10 motors this season......He just blew one up this weekend at Mid-Ohio, while I was there.

The FIC is a cost effective alternative to the standalone, which is also VERY watered down, but can get the job done for someone on a budget. It is more cost effective than the e-mangle and comes loaded with all of the 'add-ons' that the e-mangle sells seperately. It also does the entire job better than the e-manage as well with the O2 sensor skewing like the PCS, the way it alters ignition timing and it's method of fuel delivery.

Without turning this into a HUGE piggy vs standalone argument, a standalone is the proper method of doing something like this, but a piggyback will work to a degree. Let's leave it at that.

Lastly, there is no replacement for a poor tuner or a good tune, regardless of engine management. <<<<<And you can quote me on this!

 
Rep Power: 350

Glad its working out for you man.

 
Rep Power: 244

Ok .. my tuner is no amateur .. he's one of the best and most popular .. but again i have NO IDEA ... speedfoos .. there was forsure a sniffer for the AFRs... but i can't answer if i went into boost too lean.. so if this was the case .. how could i avoid it .. my car is going in for another tune monday .. and the head is already sent out. There was green fluid around my pistons that my mechanic sucked out and when he did a leakdown test before he removed the head, it was off in the first cylinder .. are those signs of a blown head gasket?? ... i just don't want to blow another one at the tune .. i really really wana get my car and drive.. at the same time save my money considerring i had to pay 350 for an unfinished tune. I don't have an O2 wideband sensor yet but that comes with my AFR gauge and boost and stuff right?? cuz those are getting purchased very soon. thanks for anymore advice ...

with that said and done ... im scared to increase the boost, i know 5 psi is nothing .. but when i was watching my car on the dyno the engine was SHAKING HARRRRRRRRRD lol and then this thing SHOT UP .. it scared me .. like i dun wanna kill anything i hope everything is fine on monday

 
Rep Power: 0

OK let me hit this one by one as I know it. Correct me if I'm wrong here turbo vets, I'm still new to this.

but i can't answer if i went into boost too lean. - Did your tuner datalog the run?

green fluid around my pistons ......leakdown test.....off in the first cylinder Yes those are all definite signs of a blown HG.

but that comes with my AFR gauge and boost and stuff right Unless you paid at least $250 for your AFR gauge, it's not going to come with a wideband O2 sensor. The AFR gauge will not read correctly when running off a stock narrowband sensor. In fact it will cause more problems than it will solve. Don't even hook it up unless it's to a wideband sensor.

i know 5 psi is nothing Not so. There is a a guy here (bg0218as) who's making 196whp w/stock internals on 5 psi. Paul street tuned him. That's pert near double what you're making now.

 
Rep Power: 244

yah ofcourse he was datalogging the run .. i talked to my mechanic and he said that he knows if its too lean or not .. so i don't know .. should i call him up and ask "was i running too lean when u hit boost"???

The gauge doesn't come with the wideband, as it is goin to hook up to my stock o2 sensor?? why do u say thats bad, and don't hook it up... my mechanic said once ur tuned, u don't have to worry about bring rich or lean, u just need something basic for urself to see if ur running rich or lean.. i know the wideband is more accurate with numbers but.. i was getting the autometer AFR gauge, oil pressure, and boost.

What is the best upgrade that u could do internally ?? since i blew a perfectly new HG first time into boost, i orderred the ARP studs. I don't wanan get into internals but i just wanted some lil things that would help with my setup. was that a good upgrade ? or should i have gotten something else and kept my stock studs?

seeing numbers like that is outrageous ... 196 WHP at 5 psi is rediculous .. i hope i see numbers like that !!! but i won't know if i blow my HG again lol

 
Rep Power: 0

Anytime you piggyback another gauge off a stock gauge's signal wire you're asking for trouble. Trust me on this one. I piggybacked another coolant temp gauge off my stock sending unit and it caused the tach signal to drop out and the car to go into limp mode. Not good. Have a search here. There are a few threads where folks have had several problems running an AFR gauge off a stock narrowband sensor.

Aside from the ARPs, unless you get into rod bolts, pistons, or rods themselves, don't worry about it at 5 psi. You could get a block guard installed, but at such low boost, I really wouldn't bother.

Don't **** off your mechanic. If it was too lean and detonated, I'm sure he would have said something already. You could ask him what the AFR was when all the coolant puked out because you heard you should be worried about detonation. If you trust him as much as you say you do, then your only option is to just let it ride if he doesn't come out and say what the AFR was.

 
Rep Power: 424

wow, get a new mechanic.The bottom line is the tune sucked, headgaskets dont blow themselves in that short of time. If your mechanic recognized something as wrong, at this point, it probably wont be admitted by him, but I definitely wouldnt go back. Post the tuned map up, some of us can tell if its ok or not. Without wideband, who knows what was up. Your plugs also should have been read to make sure the timing was ok.
I wouldnt drive one of these things with a turbo and not have wideband AFR. So much **** can change the AFR its not funny. Getting an autometer gauge is like having a light show on the dash board. It doesnt tell you anything useful. It does nothing. Buy a wideband gauge, that comes with its own sensor.

 
Rep Power: 244

where do i get a wideband gauge from ?? i made a mistake buying the autometer then ... w/e ill just keep the oil pressure and boost gauge .. F*k the AFR ...

how do i post the tuned map ? i don't have ANY information about the tune .. nothing... this tune thing is pissing me off.. wat if the same **** happens monday .. my mechanic is the sickest guy, i left the car there at night, in the morning i cheked him at the shop and the head was off .. he was donig everything.. and he told me go party ill take care of u, thats too proper.. he said once ur up and running ull be loving it.. but this lean rich ****, how do i know if its not gonna happen again? my tuner had the laptop hooked up, the dyno computer, the sniffer, i don't think he would run too lean.. does that mean more air, less fuel?? wouldn't he be monitoring that?? my mechanic said he knows all that .. honestly .. it could have been as dumb as a faulty head gasket .. who knows