andyman97

iTrader: (14)

Really? You're totally contradicting yourself between these two posts, I really think you should close your mouth and do a little bit more research before speaking like you know something.
Fine tuning doesn't give you substantial gains? I think 75 whp is a VERY SUBSTANTIAL gain! A very, very close personal friend of mine is a tuner, EFI 101 certified, EFI 101 Advanced, AEM EMS factory trained, and the ONLY authorized neptune dealer in Colorado, check out some of the differences fine tuning has made with a few of the cars he's tuned:


250 WHP, 239 TQ (stock LS, auto DSM turbo)
Summary:
Stock LS motor in a honda del-sol.
They are running the stock turbo from an automatic DSM.
I'm told there is under $1200 invested in the whole setup.
Around 8psi of boost: Its very smooth and it pulls nicely.


The cool thing here is that there was no change in the total boost pressure. They were having some boost controller issues, so we were unable to change the boost level at all. This shows the benefit of proper dyno tuning: 75whp and 40wtq gain at the same low boost level with nothing but tuning.



Yeah, this isn't just from what's on 7thgen, this is real world tuning. You can see more setups at www.serviontuning.com.

ctx66

I did not contradict myself anywhere. Check again.

Are you trying to tell me that by switching from a perfectly tuned s-afc, to an ems you were able to get a 75whp gain? If theres under $1200 invested, how could he run an ems? Everything else i believe, that you can build a low cost setup if you buy a used, turbo, intercooler, make your own piping, etc.

Ill say once again, my opinion is that you will not get substantial gains by switching from a s-afc to an ems. You will get more control since you are switching from a damn fuel computer to a stand alone ecu, im not that ****ing stupid. But you should not get 75whp gains unless there was something very wrong with your intial setup, especially in such a low hp setup as the one you used as an example. A ****ing guy from slowboyracing dynoed his car at 639hp using a s-afc. So if you got 75whp on a low hp setup like that.. he should get what, 400hp on his setup if he switches to an ems? Sorry, thats just not how it works. He's now at just over 700whp using a haltec. Thats reasonable. A high hp setup going from 639hp to just over 700 by switching to a standalone ecu.

This is getting to be stupid. I'm about to just say lets agree, to disagree. Because i strongly disagree with what is being said here. I may be acting like an arrogant *****, but i only do so when im 100% of myself, and im sure of this.

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

You aren't contradicting yourself? I read it several times. One post says the ems makes more power, the next says they should be around the same. Which is it? You're saying two completely different things. Your credibility is shot, you can say whatever you want to say, but your ignorance really shines through. I wish I was a moderator because I would delete your bs posts.

I would show more examples but I think my point has been proven a few times over.

ctx66

Yes, i did say they should be around the same. I said that you will be able to fine tune better with an ems or any other stand alone ecu, but the gains won't be substantial. If the gains aren't subtantial, then the hp #'s will still be around the same. I guess what i see as 'around', and what you see as 'around' could just be different. Unless you start discussing high hp applications of 300whp +, then the gains will become more substantial and they will no longer be 'around' the same.

This thread is stressing me out far too much, i'm not gonna reply anymore.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

You gave one example of how a car gained 61 hp. Other cars gain like 75whp maybe more. I dont see where the gains are not substantial. Also, you contradict yourself by saying that the ems does not offer substantial gains, while at the same time you state that adjusting the timing can allow you to run more boost, giving you more power, and the ems allows you to manipulate timing.

Considering the other features on the ems and the increase in power, it is worth it.

Michalo187

iTrader: (33)

I still stand by this. Ask anyone who wants to make real power. The ems is the only way to go and it is the absolute best option. It doesn't matter that it cost 1500 its gonna make everything so much easier and make everything run better. My car with the greddy would run for 1 month without ****ing up something. I spent like 100 dollars on spark plugs because the stock ecu would mess up the tuning. With Ems my car lasted and i didn't have to replace ****. Andyman97 and I have both lived without ems and with it and i bet you both of us have the same opinion in which we don't know how we ever lived without it. I recommend it to everyone.

02fpcivic

I agree with andy. I gained 20 whp at minimum just by adding my EMS. A "perfectly tuned" safc is pretty much almost impossible when the maps you are modifying are not designed to see probably at best, more that a couple pounds of boost. Not to mention all the neat features of the AEM boxesthat help extract every ounce of power and speed, whether its 1/4 mile, auto X, etc. We havent even gotten started on drivability issues. Ive had safc, emanage, and EMS on my car and other cars that I have helped build or built. As far as im concerned all the prior stuff was a joke, a hack, and the source of way too many headaches, and Id never start another Honda project without either a Hondata unit or in cases like our D17s the AEM box.

Id like to add that I have been building and/or modifying custom cars of almost every make for the last 10 years, carbureted, fuel injected, n/a, turbo, supercharged, nitrous, v8, v6, i4, bikes, race cars, tube chassis. You name it chances are I've had my name on it. Engine management, fuel and ignition setups in particular are the key to consistently make peak power. So get this, you can spend $4k+ on a turbo setup, only to spend $400 or so on half assed tuning capabilities and get the same end result as a $500 nitrous setup which will have better drivability and to some extent, fuel economy. Seems like an awful waist of 4 or 5 grand to me.