k20a vs k20a2
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I think the most reliable big power #s we have seen so far are K20a2 swaps with a supercharger. thats getting you in the 200-250hp range with almost no risk to the engine. the supercharged K20s out there have proven the engine to be extremly strong.
no need for cams or anything. and even better, more low end torque is a plus. considering these cars are mostly daily drivers I doubt that you can find a better setup for power paired with excellent reliability.
most of you dont seem to care about reliability or (less) maintenence; instead you just want to say "yeah get i/h/e/cams cause everyone else said it". Sure thats reliable, but my point being that you can save money on cams and the installation and go i/h/e/sc for a much larger gain with no less reliability.
thats just my 2 cents though.
no need for cams or anything. and even better, more low end torque is a plus. considering these cars are mostly daily drivers I doubt that you can find a better setup for power paired with excellent reliability.
most of you dont seem to care about reliability or (less) maintenence; instead you just want to say "yeah get i/h/e/cams cause everyone else said it". Sure thats reliable, but my point being that you can save money on cams and the installation and go i/h/e/sc for a much larger gain with no less reliability.
thats just my 2 cents though.
Last edited by diskreet; Dec 31, 2005 at 11:41 PM.
well any type of FI puts strain on the engine... more so with a SC cause your always boosting at low RPMs... i wouldnt say SC is as reliable as a NA setup... in a NA setup the only time you really put strain on the motor is in high rpm and on the valvetrain...
in FI.. you put a strain on the pistons and rods... thats why anytype of FI application they say you should upgrade the rods and/or pistons while your at it
in FI.. you put a strain on the pistons and rods... thats why anytype of FI application they say you should upgrade the rods and/or pistons while your at it
Originally Posted by aznboysrfr
yes, I did see that you said intake manifold. Did you read mine?
I consider the fact that the lsd, final drive, gearing and flywheel is different to be a very huge difference. If you think that the itr tranny isn't much different than the type s trannies, then explain why itr trannies go for $1800 and type S's go for $900.
if the original poster just wants to do a swap and stop, I don't see why you should tell him that that would be a waste of money. What he does with his motor and his money is up to him, not you.
I consider the fact that the lsd, final drive, gearing and flywheel is different to be a very huge difference. If you think that the itr tranny isn't much different than the type s trannies, then explain why itr trannies go for $1800 and type S's go for $900.
if the original poster just wants to do a swap and stop, I don't see why you should tell him that that would be a waste of money. What he does with his motor and his money is up to him, not you.
and i dont consider the tranny to be a factor cause it all depends on what he wants to do.... look at how many people are using si trannys with the type s or tsx final drive... or type s 1st 2nd and 3rd gear with si 5th and final... or type s with aftermarket lsd... there have been known situations and people posting about how the type r lsd gives after you put out so much horsepower.. what if he wants to boost and vice versa or go all motor or super charge... we dont know what his intentions are...
look at how many different transmissions we got
on top of that we have a chart calculations of people swapping out the final drive of a type r and a type s with a 5.062 final gear.. which in turn has created this chart
so just to say we have only a type s and a type r or si tranny is just wrong.. if he really wanted to go simple then yea.. but if he is serious about his tranny then who knows
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From: Harker heights Tx
Rep Power: 387 ok I went from a boosted D17A2 to a K20A2 N/A and I gotta say the only thing the d17 has is fuel economy ..LOL thats it
and...
Originally Posted by xproductionz
tell me where in my post i am supposedly TELLING him what to do.. i stated options and not say you HAVE to get a certain setup...
also then again... IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THIS SWAP AND JUST STOP THERE THEN IMO THATS JUST A WASTE OF A PERFECTLY GOOD K20... BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IN A K20 AND THEN BUILD IT THEN START OFF WITH THE K20A2... IF YOU WANT TO PUT IN A K20 THEN STOP AT THAT THEN GET A K20A.. IF YOU WANNA BOOST THEN PUT IN A K20A3 CAUSE COMPRESSION IS ALREADY LOW <--- a swap then stop is a waste of a good k20? please.
and i dont consider the tranny to be a factor cause it all depends on what he wants to do.... look at how many people are using si trannys with the type s or tsx final drive... or type s 1st 2nd and 3rd gear with si 5th and final... or type s with aftermarket lsd... there have been known situations and people posting about how the type r lsd gives after you put out so much horsepower.. what if he wants to boost and vice versa or go all motor or super charge... we dont know what his intentions are...
yes, the itr lsd does give after a certain amount of hp. However, our original argument was k20a i/h/e/kpro vs. k20a2 i/h/e/kpro/cams. this is why I said the itr tranny gives an good advantage over the k20a2 tranny. If you're going to be adding tranny work to both motors, then it would be k20a i/h/e/kpro vs. k20a2 i/h/e/kpro/cams/tranny ... which wasn't the case.
look at how many different transmissions we got
I know there are a lot of transmissions. I know people rebuild their trannies for the gear ratios they like. But how many people honestly do that? 5% of the people who swap? Probably less than that. There are tons of people who swap and leave their gear ratios and final drives alone ... maybe changing out their 6th gear with a tsx 6th. I know I'm gonna do that ... but only for better fuel economy because mine is ****.
on top of that we have a chart calculations of people swapping out the final drive of a type r and a type s with a 5.062 final gear.. which in turn has created this chart
so just to say we have only a type s and a type r or si tranny is just wrong.. if he really wanted to go simple then yea.. but if he is serious about his tranny then who knows
hey man ... obviously not everyone here is interested in fully building their daily driver civics because that is exactly what they are. I'll make a list of swapped 7thgens and out of them. Out of the list, you tell me who has modified their gearing or final drives:
aznboysrfr
drivetofast
you
transformedbg
juncivic
hondaluver
wantaturbo
mcwoowoo
whitevic
1 sik civic
quick silver
em2guy
stl01civic
doubledeuce2k
dc5@em2
icebergslim
poor jaysun
also then again... IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THIS SWAP AND JUST STOP THERE THEN IMO THATS JUST A WASTE OF A PERFECTLY GOOD K20... BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IN A K20 AND THEN BUILD IT THEN START OFF WITH THE K20A2... IF YOU WANT TO PUT IN A K20 THEN STOP AT THAT THEN GET A K20A.. IF YOU WANNA BOOST THEN PUT IN A K20A3 CAUSE COMPRESSION IS ALREADY LOW <--- a swap then stop is a waste of a good k20? please.
and i dont consider the tranny to be a factor cause it all depends on what he wants to do.... look at how many people are using si trannys with the type s or tsx final drive... or type s 1st 2nd and 3rd gear with si 5th and final... or type s with aftermarket lsd... there have been known situations and people posting about how the type r lsd gives after you put out so much horsepower.. what if he wants to boost and vice versa or go all motor or super charge... we dont know what his intentions are...
yes, the itr lsd does give after a certain amount of hp. However, our original argument was k20a i/h/e/kpro vs. k20a2 i/h/e/kpro/cams. this is why I said the itr tranny gives an good advantage over the k20a2 tranny. If you're going to be adding tranny work to both motors, then it would be k20a i/h/e/kpro vs. k20a2 i/h/e/kpro/cams/tranny ... which wasn't the case.
look at how many different transmissions we got
I know there are a lot of transmissions. I know people rebuild their trannies for the gear ratios they like. But how many people honestly do that? 5% of the people who swap? Probably less than that. There are tons of people who swap and leave their gear ratios and final drives alone ... maybe changing out their 6th gear with a tsx 6th. I know I'm gonna do that ... but only for better fuel economy because mine is ****.
on top of that we have a chart calculations of people swapping out the final drive of a type r and a type s with a 5.062 final gear.. which in turn has created this chart
so just to say we have only a type s and a type r or si tranny is just wrong.. if he really wanted to go simple then yea.. but if he is serious about his tranny then who knows
hey man ... obviously not everyone here is interested in fully building their daily driver civics because that is exactly what they are. I'll make a list of swapped 7thgens and out of them. Out of the list, you tell me who has modified their gearing or final drives:
aznboysrfr
drivetofast
you
transformedbg
juncivic
hondaluver
wantaturbo
mcwoowoo
whitevic
1 sik civic
quick silver
em2guy
stl01civic
doubledeuce2k
dc5@em2
icebergslim
poor jaysun
Originally Posted by aznboysrfr
yes, the itr lsd does give after a certain amount of hp. However, our original argument was k20a i/h/e/kpro vs. k20a2 i/h/e/kpro/cams. this is why I said the itr tranny gives an good advantage over the k20a2 tranny. If you're going to be adding tranny work to both motors, then it would be k20a i/h/e/kpro vs. k20a2 i/h/e/kpro/cams/tranny ... which wasn't the case.
you just answered to what i have been saying all along... our argument was about the block itself... not the tranny... your the one that brought the whole tranny issue into this
I wasn't arguing about the block. I was arguing about which swap would be faster. I have no idea where you got a block-only argument from. Check post 17 again to see what I was arguing.
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Originally Posted by xproductionz
well any type of FI puts strain on the engine... more so with a SC cause your always boosting at low RPMs... i wouldnt say SC is as reliable as a NA setup... in a NA setup the only time you really put strain on the motor is in high rpm and on the valvetrain...
in FI.. you put a strain on the pistons and rods... thats why anytype of FI application they say you should upgrade the rods and/or pistons while your at it
in FI.. you put a strain on the pistons and rods... thats why anytype of FI application they say you should upgrade the rods and/or pistons while your at it
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Rep Power: 287 i know this is an old thread..... but i'd like to add that with the k20a, the compression ratio is hi so it requires 100 octane gas... and 100 octane is not openly available in north america. So is it impractical for north america and isn't it better to go with k20a2 in that case? good point for ppl who are debating k20a vs. k20a2... big difference in the price of both motors so its a good point to consider.
i know this is an old thread..... but i'd like to add that with the k20a, the compression ratio is hi so it requires 100 octane gas... and 100 octane is not openly available in north america. So is it impractical for north america and isn't it better to go with k20a2 in that case? good point for ppl who are debating k20a vs. k20a2... big difference in the price of both motors so its a good point to consider.
who said that??.. im running a k20a with 91 octane. compression aint that much higher.. a type s is 11:1 while the type r is 11.5:1... only about 0.5 difference
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Rep Power: 287 ^^ really..? interesting... i've heard from a few ppl to use atleast 94 for the jdm motor...
so you're running on 91 on an k20a? even the guy at the tuning shop told me to use atleast 94...
so you're running on 91 on an k20a? even the guy at the tuning shop told me to use atleast 94...
Last edited by kasimmmmm; Nov 27, 2006 at 12:53 AM.
we dont have 94 in my area... all we got is 87 89 and 91. 100 is very hard to find here and i think only 4 gas stations out here in vegas carry it. Well as long as you got kpro and a good tuner anythings possible
here.. this proves what i say even more..
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18875
they even go to talk about how people are using 91 on 12.5:1 comprssion
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18875
they even go to talk about how people are using 91 on 12.5:1 comprssion
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Rep Power: 255 BUT... when it comes down to all this.... it's PERSONAL Opinion.... btw, 91, 94, 100 octane... anything works, it's just depends on how well you wanna feed your engine or "take care" of your engine . and over all, tuning will change the characteristics of the engine.
. and over all, tuning will change the characteristics of the engine. available gas amd tuning is key. if you tune for 91 then stick with it... me on the other hand.. i have 2 different tunes on my car.. one tune with 91 and another with 100.. so i can interchange the tune whenever i need to. basically 100 for the track and 91 for daily
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Rep Power: 0 iirc, the conlusion on k20a.org is to get a k20a2 if it will be modded, because there is no point of spending all the extra money on the high compression and lightweight everything. but get a k20a if wanting to just keep it stock or just i/h/e
my fiancee chose a z1 for the closer compatibility to the k20a (cams, k20a final drive with no lsd)
"Cams
We have cross referenced the 05 RSX intake and exhaust camshaft part numbers with those available for Japanese ITR.
The Japanese part numbers for the ITR intake cams are:
* 14110-PRC-000
* 14110-PRC-010
* 14110-PRC-020
This is because there have been three revisions of the engine.
The US part numbers for the 05 cams are:
* 14110-PRC-030 (intake)
* 14120-PRC-030 (exhaust)
It is therefore our assumption that the cams in the 05 RSX are the Japanese ITR cams. which have the same lift but more duration than the PRB cams" - Hondata.com
my fiancee chose a z1 for the closer compatibility to the k20a (cams, k20a final drive with no lsd)
"Cams
We have cross referenced the 05 RSX intake and exhaust camshaft part numbers with those available for Japanese ITR.
The Japanese part numbers for the ITR intake cams are:
* 14110-PRC-000
* 14110-PRC-010
* 14110-PRC-020
This is because there have been three revisions of the engine.
The US part numbers for the 05 cams are:
* 14110-PRC-030 (intake)
* 14120-PRC-030 (exhaust)
It is therefore our assumption that the cams in the 05 RSX are the Japanese ITR cams. which have the same lift but more duration than the PRB cams" - Hondata.com
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