ldesbiens

http://www.ststurbo.com/home

they're mounting their turbo on the exhaust pipe, replacing the muffler.

---> cooler operating turbo
---> turbo's turbine sized for the denser exhaust gases at that location
---> intercooler effect from the length of the intake pipe and it's location
---> simpler installation

they're planing for a civic application.

read their faq, their science seems straight to me....

I find it to be an interesting alternative.

X0DuZz

iTrader: (3)

heh repost

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

Interesting.

I'm still not clear on hoe the air is cooled after it leaves the turbine. Everything is underneath hmmmmmmmm.

riceburnrex

iTrader: (2)

Their science is completely wrong.

Energy from exhaust drives the turbine. Hotter air has more energy to be used (because heat is energy). This is why jet hot coating a turbo manifold makes the turbo spool faster, because the air is hotter when it hits the turbine blades. The more pipe the exhaust goes through, the more energy it loses through the pipes in the form of heat.

Besides, with all that charge piping, they're going to lose another few hundred RPM's to lag as the pipes charge up before the intake manifold sees boost, and they're going to have more of a pressure drop across all that piping, making the turbo work harder. They're also going to have a complicated oil delivery/return problem, needing more money and more possible problems.

Underhood temp problems can better be solved by jet hot coating the manifold, downpipe, and dumptube, that will save 400 degrees F under the hood.

IronFist

iTrader: (3)

Who wants the intake that low to the ground. Hydrolock anyone? Um, I think... what happens if a turbo sucks up water? Same as with a regular intake, right?

allmotor

iTrader: (5)

nice idea but i still wouldnt do it

allmotor

iTrader: (5)

btw does this company actually get people to buy these kits

wrussi

iTrader: (1)

yeah i saw that on that horsepower tv.com looks cool i wonder how much hp it gives

sitinduk

iTrader: (9)

This setup is not w/o its problems, but it has the potential to be the only street legal turbo kit for dx/vp, hx, lx since it doesn't eliminate the cat. conv.

ldesbiens

I completely agree with you here, essentially what drives the turbine is the pressure difference between its outlet and its inlet.

when the turbo is placed on the exhaust manifold, the pressure at the inlet is enormous but you also have quite a bit of backpressure from the cat conv and the exhaust system.

by placing the turbo way back, you're not as efficient because energy was lost through the piping. The pressure at the inlet is less, but so is the pressure at the outlet (atmospheric pressure at this point).

remove the cat and go 3" on a standard turbo system, and you just negated any improvement the sts has over it.

the sts system would only be interesting if it was self-lubricating. minimum installation, completely universal, only a charge pipe to run to the front of the car.

Green Civic

A turbo recycles the exhaust gases and uses them over again. Which makes a turbo efficient. The turbo needs hot gases to spin the turbine which makes power for the car. Their turbo goes on the exhaust system, which does not recycle anywhere. It look like the only thing the turbo does is get exhaust fumes out faster. I dont see how someone would get an increase in horsepower and better gas milage if the turbo is not doing anything there in the first place. Its like me buying a turbo and using it for a paper weight on my desk.

EternalBlue_Vic

iTrader: (14)

Aside from the fact that turbos run better on HOT EGT (Heat is compressed energy!), i'd be afraid to have my turbo mounted under the rear bumper. Just seems more safer to have it stay in the engine bay. Also look vulnerable to road grime, the seldom tree twig, and rear end collisions. Not to mention turbo replacing muffler fugg's up back pressure if i'm not mistaken

sean2sean

longer pipes means more turbo lag...

this is prob why they have it mostly on trucks with lots of low end power... that way they wont feel the lag as much...

this kit prob wont work as well for our 4 bangers... then to their 6 and 8 cylinder engines...

EternalBlue_Vic

iTrader: (14)

/\/\ Hehe. Maximum spool at 6000rpms

jk

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

with this setup they might not need any intercooler would they.??? i mean with the air traveling for so long and traveling through cool pipes u would think u dont need it???...

EternalBlue_Vic

iTrader: (14)

/\/\ Right, no need for an intercooler. Read up on that site under "how it works" They say exactly what you asked

riceburnrex

iTrader: (2)

It won't cool as well as an intercooler.

Just look at the available surface area to disspate heat. The piping is a lot, but it's no where near the surface area of the bars, plates, and fins of an intercooler. Every fin on most intercoolers is at least 1.5 square inches or more, and there's a buttload of fins. The piping is also not in a high pressure area, as an intercooler will be at the front of the car.

dannn

iTrader: (7)

hmm yea thinking about it.
wouldnt you lose boost pressure through all that piping and plus it would take a long time for the intake manifold to get boost

dre2600

They make a kit with an inline intercooler, that looks interesting.

I think maybe turbo lag wouldn't be so bad, all that straight piping is better than a lot of the 90 degrees mandrel bends in piping under the hood for a lot of the more cramped turbo setups. I wonder if the straighter piping would lower spool time?

Catalyst

iTrader: (2)

these were my exact thoughts. BUT, this is a good solution on SOME cars.

We thought this was a bad idea. Slow spoolup, low power, oil delivery, etc. But we had a customer that demanded that we build a turbo system similar to that. And on this specific car (350 ci V8) it turned out to be simpler to build, cheaper to build, and it worked out great.

It was cheaper because we did not have to build any manifolds. which automatically cut off over $1k. But you had to buy an oil pump (approx $200). you have more oil lines, more intercooler piping, etc. But over all, the kit was much easier to build. We did intercool ours, but its not too necessary. We eliminated the spoolup problem by properly sizing the turbo.

Over all, the system worked great. the only concerns is 1. what if he hits a curb? a rock? a dog? it could take out the oil lines. and 2. air filter is pretty low. If you go over a substantial amount of water, you could have a problem.

I did not expect that kit to work as well as it did. I believe that for SOME cars, it is a reasonable alternative. But i think that for most imports, it wont save much money compared to the traditional kits.

Catalyst

iTrader: (2)

also, if you look under the hood of my car, i have about than 10 feet of intercooler piping before i get to the manifold. That car happened to have 11 feet. So there really is no more piping in that kit than any other intercooled kits.

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

also if u think about it the turbo is alrady sucking in cool air from under the car and not the engine bay.. also the turbo is under the car and not in the hot engine bay.. so i dont think cooling the air is a concern.. look at the NSX for example.. this setup is very similar to how a NSX would be turboed but in reverse cause engine is in the back... u have to route the turbo all the way to the front of the car for the intercooler and all the way back to the engine... thats double the length u would find in the STS kit.... also a turboed NSX has its filter underneath in the back just like the STS kit

lkm

the major thing with the sts kit is that it is fudgingly simple. no exhauast manifolds or anything like that. they just cut the exhaust, stuck a turbo on there, oil lines to it{maybe a pump too}, some piping. this kit could be atleast half of what SFP kits costs. sure its got some lag, but on automatic, this would do wonders. stock at low rpm and boost when u want to floor it. also, the biggest thing, it allows your to keep those expensive headers you bought.

one more thing, can u say sleeper car. most people would see the aftermarket header and think there is no turbo{assuming u disguise the intake manifold and sound and bov}

edit more
biggest plus for it is price. that kit shouldn't cost more than $2000 and with how easy install should be, DIY. install times are 4-6 hours for first timers

no $300-500 catback or exhuast needed.

can be converted to stock in an hour.

With the turbo so far back, don't you get a lot of turbo lag?
No, our turbochargers are sized to operate at this remote location. Just like any turbocharger, once the turbo is up to temperature and in the rpm range for which it was designed to operate. The boost comes on hard and fast. All of our systems will produce full boost below 3000 rpm

read the faq

lkm

more for the ppls with the heat crap...

Doesn't heat create the velocity in the exhaust gasses to spool the turbo?
No, heat doesn't create velocity. Heat creates volume. If you look at any of the physics laws for gasses, you will find that pressure and volume and heat are related. PV=NRT is a popular one, The V isn't for velocity, it is for Volume.
The turbine housing is what creates the velocity. The scrolling design that reduces the volume of the exhaust chamber as it scrolls around causes the gasses to have to increase in velocity and pressure to maintain the same flow rate.

Hotter gasses have more volume, thus requiring a higher A/R which in effect means that it starts at say 3" and scrolls down to approximately 1". Lower temperature gasses are denser and have less volume, so they require a lower A/R housing which would start at the same 3" volume, as the turbine housings use standard flanges, and scroll down to say 3/4".

lkm

yep, imma fanboy of it now. funny thing is, its actually more expensive than conventianal turbo kits. if it does turn out to be more than a conventional, i might collect the parts and DIY it.

if i diy with it all the way in the back, any turbo can be used right, from scrapyard to new. oh well, i think this setup would rock on automatic sedans.

2K1Civic17"Gabe

iTrader: (9)

A custom turbo like this would be sooooo much cheaper than a regular custom turbo. I would like to see how it performs on a civic.

lkm

werd! if its 2k or less and makes at least 40whp im in.

ldesbiens

It's a shame aerodyne is not making turbos anymore.

that company was making self-lubricated turbos, meaning turbo that didn't need oil from the engine (like a supercharger). you just change the oil periodically.

That would have been perfect for this application, no oil lines to run....


also on the whole heat, pressure / turbo in the back issue.

Having the turbo away from the engine, what you lose is not efficiency per say (you adjust the size of the turbine accordingly).

What you loose is potential !!!

Since you're not close to the engine and some heat is lost through the pipes, you won't be able to extract all the energy which is available in the exhaust stream......but if you're aiming for 7 psi ...who cares !!!, with a standard turbo setup you dump that extra heat through the exhaust pipe with the wastegate anyway...

so bottom line is, low boost application, no intercooler, simplicity, this alternative is worth looking at ...

you want to make big H.P , 20 psi and all...go with a standard setup.

jturbolx

iTrader: (6)

well under the bumper easy to steal i would think and another thing it may be good if you have a reg turbo also take alot of piping but it would be like the tt set up for audi, but still i don't know

kjgracing

iTrader: (3)

it says that you run about 12 feet of oil lines. This does act as an oil cooler. Also it comes with an oil pump and an alarm in case the pump fails.

I have seen this on a ford truck F150 4X4
at my track....under the hood you don't even notice the piping for the turbo.

Truck is a total sleeper....that is his only mod on it and he is running low to mid 12's down the 1/4..