This Dyno Sucks...
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From: Lake George, New York, US
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This Dyno Sucks...
Before everyone reads this, I am NOT starting a flame thread so please if you are going to respond make it constructive, so if you have any suggestions to fix my problem please let me know.....
OK, I had mentioned that I was going to dyno my car with the (inframous company with bad rep laterly name excluded) p and p head on it- I did and keep in mind the dyno from the fall was 183 hp and 189 tq-
Yesterday I dynoed again, hoping for an increase of course here are the s h i t t y results:
167 hp and 172tq plus choppy as h e l l during vtec!
I have never heard of someone whose hp dropped after putting on something like this. You all know my problems with the head and crap that got in it, some people have suggested that the cam is screwed up or worst case scenario the head is ported incorrectly. Before I go pulling it off my car, let me know if anyone has any suggestions-
Melissa
OK, I had mentioned that I was going to dyno my car with the (inframous company with bad rep laterly name excluded) p and p head on it- I did and keep in mind the dyno from the fall was 183 hp and 189 tq-
Yesterday I dynoed again, hoping for an increase of course here are the s h i t t y results:
167 hp and 172tq plus choppy as h e l l during vtec!
I have never heard of someone whose hp dropped after putting on something like this. You all know my problems with the head and crap that got in it, some people have suggested that the cam is screwed up or worst case scenario the head is ported incorrectly. Before I go pulling it off my car, let me know if anyone has any suggestions-
Melissa
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From: NV
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Send the pic to here and I'll upload it.
berberoglu@yahoo.com
Those dyno results are very concerning to me. I'm getting ready to have mine installed on a stock motor, and I thought the head was supposed to give lots of power on a turbo car. I can't imagine how much I'll lose on NA. Hmmm....
berberoglu@yahoo.com
Those dyno results are very concerning to me. I'm getting ready to have mine installed on a stock motor, and I thought the head was supposed to give lots of power on a turbo car. I can't imagine how much I'll lose on NA. Hmmm....
Last edited by gearbox; May 2, 2004 at 05:57 PM.
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From: Woostah
Rep Power: 413 Something else is going on with the motor... Are you altering fuel curves at all? Do you have the a/f ratio at all through the powerband?
Honestly, there is a VERY minimal chance that the port wok on the head is causing the drop in HP.... It has to be something else... What? That's a tough question.... Could be cam, could be anything really... Best bet would be to re-check everything on the install and check all gauges, codes, etc....
Honestly, there is a VERY minimal chance that the port wok on the head is causing the drop in HP.... It has to be something else... What? That's a tough question.... Could be cam, could be anything really... Best bet would be to re-check everything on the install and check all gauges, codes, etc....
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From: Zulu Alpha Tango Foxtrot
Rep Power: 312 Well....Didn't actually see the ports - but if they are freakin' big (as in gearboxes case), that might account for it. Usually when a PnP is done they don't make the inlet / exhaust holes excessively large because the velocity of the air will actually SLOW down vs scavenge, which is bad, and will cause you to lose power. Its quite possible they just did a bad job.
However, I'd check everything else first - as Havok mentions. Get an OBDII scantool hooked up to your car and check the fuel curves, timing, etc. You MIGHT just need tuning to run this....
However, I'd check everything else first - as Havok mentions. Get an OBDII scantool hooked up to your car and check the fuel curves, timing, etc. You MIGHT just need tuning to run this....
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From: Lake George, New York, US
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here is an old post if anyone wants to see the size of my ports- good points on the ports matching up, trying to make decisions on my next move here and I hate to say that one of them is to get a different car that 1) just starting stock is more than where I am now and 2) comes with a factory turbo- don't want to give up on my Civic yet....
here is an old post if anyone wants to see the size of my ports- good points on the ports matching up, trying to make decisions on my next move here and I hate to say that one of them is to get a different car that 1) just starting stock is more than where I am now and 2) comes with a factory turbo- don't want to give up on my Civic yet....
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 So how much boost are you running when you did the dyno? I think Catalyst has the magic PnP head, because here is what happened to him:
I finally dyno'd my car with the DHracing ported head.
Stock on 5.5 psi i made 165 whp and 166 ft/lbs.
Portwork on 4.8 psi I made 175 whp and 177 ft/lbs.
Stock on 5.5 psi i made 165 whp and 166 ft/lbs.
Portwork on 4.8 psi I made 175 whp and 177 ft/lbs.
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From: Tampa, Florida, US
Rep Power: 0 I think something else has to be going wrong. Although a lot of people don't like DH, I don't think that the PnP has much to do with it. Head Gasket leak maybe? I would check EVERYTHING before saying it was a bad PnP head.
Skyline R33
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From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Your dyno looks like my dyno when I was too lean. Can you post the Wide-band curve, this is important for tuning. The jagged power band looks like you could be starving for fuel. What are you running for fuel control. VAFC2, emanage? Here is a copy of my lean dyno, the power band looks like your. After tuning I gained 35hp just by using the VAFC2. If you look at the wide-band, the power curve is messed up when I went lean. Also did you port match the gaskets and the manifolds to the new head.
Last edited by guns; May 3, 2004 at 12:02 AM.
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From: vegas
Rep Power: 0 Catalyst didnt have a magic head it was a dhr head installed and tuned properley. You guys are talking all kinds of mess about dhr ported heads but I have dyno tuned 4 of his heads all on d series and lowest yet has been 15 whp on a 1600 non vtec motor. I will guarntee your motor is running lean. Also dhr ports are not to large, look at any other head porter and the specs will be almost identical. You guys keep talking about how crappy his heads are yet ever think that your not installing/tuning motors correct. I have yet to see a dhr head installed tuned by me loss power they actually have amazed me with power gains. Get a micrometer and spec out a stock head and a dhr head and see the ports size change is minimal. You guys are acting like they are ported beyond belief. Also a port matched gasket is needed for optimal performance. Nothing a dremel tool cant do in 15 minutes. If someone would like to prove me wrong mic a stock head vs a dhr head and tell me how much larger the specs are. The exhaust side is usually only slight larger than most aftermarket manifolds which use stock sized ports. Slight port work on the exhaust manifold is also needed. Again nothin special just a little ginding with a dremel tool and 10-15 minutes per port to have the head/gasket/manifold matched. Go this route and you will not lose power with his head. His claim of 30 whp is a litttle out of left field 15-20 whp is more like it tuned. I'm also not some wannabe fan i'm a tuner who has used dhr head work since the late 90's on many projects. They work and i will say one thing TUNE, TUNE.
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From: Lake George, New York, US
Rep Power: 0 I never said that it was bad port work but when you have dealt with this much s h i t as I have with the whole head since I bought it, you would be frustrated too. Not one person who saw the head, including me, thought it was a bad job. I just posted to ask for some help here, not another bashing session like I said to start.
It is not like the head came with a nice direction manual, let me check with my invisible directions here, oh yeah, it said direct bolt on- I agree with the VAFC2 being a help though
It is not like the head came with a nice direction manual, let me check with my invisible directions here, oh yeah, it said direct bolt on- I agree with the VAFC2 being a help though
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From: Zulu Alpha Tango Foxtrot
Rep Power: 312 Originally posted by allmotorb16a
Catalyst didnt have a magic head it was a dhr head installed and tuned properley. You guys are talking all kinds of mess about dhr ported heads but I have dyno tuned 4 of his heads all on d series and lowest yet has been 15 whp on a 1600 non vtec motor. I will guarntee your motor is running lean. Also dhr ports are not to large, look at any other head porter and the specs will be almost identical. You guys keep talking about how crappy his heads are yet ever think that your not installing/tuning motors correct. I have yet to see a dhr head installed tuned by me loss power they actually have amazed me with power gains. Get a micrometer and spec out a stock head and a dhr head and see the ports size change is minimal. You guys are acting like they are ported beyond belief. Also a port matched gasket is needed for optimal performance. Nothing a dremel tool cant do in 15 minutes. If someone would like to prove me wrong mic a stock head vs a dhr head and tell me how much larger the specs are. The exhaust side is usually only slight larger than most aftermarket manifolds which use stock sized ports. Slight port work on the exhaust manifold is also needed. Again nothin special just a little ginding with a dremel tool and 10-15 minutes per port to have the head/gasket/manifold matched. Go this route and you will not lose power with his head. His claim of 30 whp is a litttle out of left field 15-20 whp is more like it tuned. I'm also not some wannabe fan i'm a tuner who has used dhr head work since the late 90's on many projects. They work and i will say one thing TUNE, TUNE.
Catalyst didnt have a magic head it was a dhr head installed and tuned properley. You guys are talking all kinds of mess about dhr ported heads but I have dyno tuned 4 of his heads all on d series and lowest yet has been 15 whp on a 1600 non vtec motor. I will guarntee your motor is running lean. Also dhr ports are not to large, look at any other head porter and the specs will be almost identical. You guys keep talking about how crappy his heads are yet ever think that your not installing/tuning motors correct. I have yet to see a dhr head installed tuned by me loss power they actually have amazed me with power gains. Get a micrometer and spec out a stock head and a dhr head and see the ports size change is minimal. You guys are acting like they are ported beyond belief. Also a port matched gasket is needed for optimal performance. Nothing a dremel tool cant do in 15 minutes. If someone would like to prove me wrong mic a stock head vs a dhr head and tell me how much larger the specs are. The exhaust side is usually only slight larger than most aftermarket manifolds which use stock sized ports. Slight port work on the exhaust manifold is also needed. Again nothin special just a little ginding with a dremel tool and 10-15 minutes per port to have the head/gasket/manifold matched. Go this route and you will not lose power with his head. His claim of 30 whp is a litttle out of left field 15-20 whp is more like it tuned. I'm also not some wannabe fan i'm a tuner who has used dhr head work since the late 90's on many projects. They work and i will say one thing TUNE, TUNE.
Prove me wrong - post your "so-called" dynos.....until than you can trash talk all day. With no proof to back it up, its the same old isht as before ...We've been through this earlier.
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Rep Power: 584 Originally posted by allmotorb16a
You guys keep talking about how crappy his heads are yet ever think that your not installing/tuning motors correct.
You guys keep talking about how crappy his heads are yet ever think that your not installing/tuning motors correct.
TAKE UR DH NUT HUGGING BACK TO THE CASINOS AND GAMBLE THERE AND NOT WITH OUR MOTORS
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From: Lake George, New York, US
Rep Power: 0 I was thinking the same thing about our allmotorb16 friend,
ARE you really Josh in disguise? Can't say I blame ya if you are, I would do the same thing if I was banned....
ARE you really Josh in disguise? Can't say I blame ya if you are, I would do the same thing if I was banned....
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Rep Power: 0 Well, DH's notorious record-setter is a CRX B16a in Vegas.....I'd bet money that that's either Josh or DH...That's kind of pathetic that he is coming on here to promote his product after being banned.
I know if people don't want me around I take the hint and go elsewhere...but that's just me.
I know if people don't want me around I take the hint and go elsewhere...but that's just me.
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From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Ershall
Well, DH's notorious record-setter is a CRX B16a in Vegas.....I'd bet money that that's either Josh or DH...That's kind of pathetic that he is coming on here to promote his product after being banned.
I know if people don't want me around I take the hint and go elsewhere...but that's just me.
Well, DH's notorious record-setter is a CRX B16a in Vegas.....I'd bet money that that's either Josh or DH...That's kind of pathetic that he is coming on here to promote his product after being banned.
I know if people don't want me around I take the hint and go elsewhere...but that's just me.
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From: las vegas
Rep Power: 0 i live in vegas and i will let u kno what damage they do if any at the track.. they have yet to go. i was goin to get stuff done by them but everyone complained about them so i think i will stay clear. and i hate him more on a personal level!! he is a real piece
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From: vegas
Rep Power: 0 No my name is Chris Maletsky . I run polarbeartuning and only speaking my opinion. I have done very well with dhr heads but the support from them some times is not up to full par, like many other import companies. Things like gasket matching for me are just something I know to do and I think dave forgets 90 percent of the guys are just starting and things like this are needed for full potential. This is where the problem with them sees to be lack of tech support. I read through some threads also regarding the pulley not being able to be installed corectly. The t-belt cover needs to be cut and trimmed which may have been why some struggled with install. Also the claim of 5 minutes for install is more like an hour with proper tools and mechanical skill level above beginner. If you guys are done with dhr that is your choice but I have done well with them and will continue to get my cylinder head work from them.
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 The head looks good that I got, but the ports were just too big for NA motor. Looks just like the turbo head rscivic got, and I was told that it would give little to no gains, even with port matching. The only reason I got it was trusting Josh when he said it would make 30+whp on a stock engine. Larger ports reduce flow velocity, which decreases performance.
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From: vegas
Rep Power: 0 Larger ports reduce flow velocity, which decreases performance. Intresting theory have any truth to this besides some backyard mechanic telling you this, to bad physics proves you wrong . What do you think is involved in cylinder head port work, porting on intake and exhaust ports are essential to gains. Go to a flow bench with a stock head and a head with maybe 2 hours of work only on the ports no other work on the head and see if done correct gains will be significant. Your theory would involve decreasing the size of the ports to increase velocity. So your saying, for example a d15b non vtec head with small ports for economical reasons will out flow a b18c gsr head, intresting though but wrong again. This is where you guys need to be informed and read. Lack of information only spreads ignorance on a topic. Like I said and I will say it again buy a micrometer and spec the ports on a stock head and a dhr ported head. If you can compare them to other head porters I'm sure someone on here has a head ported by someone besides dhr and tell me port size change. Almost everyone in the market uses similar specs only with slight alters. Also running a ported head with stock intake manifolds, throttle body,header will alter the gains on the head has this creates a bottleneck effect. This is where having everything based around the head is very important. Merely slaping a ported head on a car will not change it like nitrous, boost will. All motor tuning is much more complex.
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Thanks for proving my point. Unfortunately, not all of us have thousands of $$ to spend swapping every part of the car. Go read your physics book again please--and stop arguing on this thread.
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From: vegas
Rep Power: 0 I'm not arguing. I'm informing this board of the basics. I will be the first to say 30 whp on your motor isnt goin to happen. Tuned with bolt ons and a manifold/throttle body you should see 15-20 whp depending on tuning and the tuners abilities. Just like a cam a head alters rpm range and will always increase the need to rev the motor higher. Honda motors are very well designed and stock valves/blocks are usually able to rev 1000 rpm over the factory rev limiter without damage. This is where gains on head work is the most significant in the higher rpm range 5000 and above. Also when increasing power what do you need, fuel. Even just header,exhaust, intake an adjustable fpr will usually gain 2-3 whp through the power range by adding 1-2 psi of extra fuel. If you do plan on installing your head gearbox I hope you have atleast header,exhaust and intake. If you dont have money for a fuel controller such as an apex atleast get a adjustable fpr and add 3 psi more fuel at idle. These #'s I have used for years on what I call the most basic tune you can do which is only to get the car running and create some extra power. To get the full benefit a wideband o2 and a dyno are needed. Oh ya reading your spark plugs is another basic trick of seeing how your motor is behaving.
Skyline R33
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From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by allmotorb16a
I'm not arguing. I'm informing this board of the basics. I will be the first to say 30 whp on your motor isnt goin to happen. Tuned with bolt ons and a manifold/throttle body you should see 15-20 whp depending on tuning and the tuners abilities. Just like a cam a head alters rpm range and will always increase the need to rev the motor higher. Honda motors are very well designed and stock valves/blocks are usually able to rev 1000 rpm over the factory rev limiter without damage. This is where gains on head work is the most significant in the higher rpm range 5000 and above. Also when increasing power what do you need, fuel. Even just header,exhaust, intake an adjustable fpr will usually gain 2-3 whp through the power range by adding 1-2 psi of extra fuel. If you do plan on installing your head gearbox I hope you have atleast header,exhaust and intake. If you dont have money for a fuel controller such as an apex atleast get a adjustable fpr and add 3 psi more fuel at idle. These #'s I have used for years on what I call the most basic tune you can do which is only to get the car running and create some extra power. To get the full benefit a wideband o2 and a dyno are needed. Oh ya reading your spark plugs is another basic trick of seeing how your motor is behaving.
I'm not arguing. I'm informing this board of the basics. I will be the first to say 30 whp on your motor isnt goin to happen. Tuned with bolt ons and a manifold/throttle body you should see 15-20 whp depending on tuning and the tuners abilities. Just like a cam a head alters rpm range and will always increase the need to rev the motor higher. Honda motors are very well designed and stock valves/blocks are usually able to rev 1000 rpm over the factory rev limiter without damage. This is where gains on head work is the most significant in the higher rpm range 5000 and above. Also when increasing power what do you need, fuel. Even just header,exhaust, intake an adjustable fpr will usually gain 2-3 whp through the power range by adding 1-2 psi of extra fuel. If you do plan on installing your head gearbox I hope you have atleast header,exhaust and intake. If you dont have money for a fuel controller such as an apex atleast get a adjustable fpr and add 3 psi more fuel at idle. These #'s I have used for years on what I call the most basic tune you can do which is only to get the car running and create some extra power. To get the full benefit a wideband o2 and a dyno are needed. Oh ya reading your spark plugs is another basic trick of seeing how your motor is behaving.
