Is a Turbo safe on stock inturnals?...HELP me out!
03-19-2004
#1
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Is a Turbo safe on stock inturnals?...HELP me out!
Hey guys...whats up?
I am very good friends with madwheel and as most of you know he has a SF turbo kit installed in his car. Just wanted to know some opinions and or facts about wat some of you know. Is it safe to run that kid...the upgraded one on stock EX inturnals???... I am supposed to be ordering a kit soon and i dont wanna order it right now if it is not safe to do. If i need to do some engine building first then i dont wanna purchase the turbo and not be able to use it you know.
If any of you can help me out that would be greatly appreciated!!!!
I am very good friends with madwheel and as most of you know he has a SF turbo kit installed in his car. Just wanted to know some opinions and or facts about wat some of you know. Is it safe to run that kid...the upgraded one on stock EX inturnals???... I am supposed to be ordering a kit soon and i dont wanna order it right now if it is not safe to do. If i need to do some engine building first then i dont wanna purchase the turbo and not be able to use it you know.
If any of you can help me out that would be greatly appreciated!!!!
03-19-2004
#2
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Rep Power: 0 you can order the kit up and just run about 6-7lbs of boost and your internals would be able to hold that up safely i suggest in the future to upgrade the internals and tranny to run a higher boost but the turbo will be able to hold up below 8lbs for sure
03-20-2004
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Rep Power: 0 So i basically am all set if i run low psi?...because madwheel hasnt ran over about 7 psi and he is having overheating problems right now?...We dont know if it is a blown HG or wat but its bad! lol...I just dont want any major problems you know...So the more replies to this the better.
I mean ill be putting a good amount of money just for the turbo kit alone you know. It will be at least 2 months or 3 months before i will actually have some extra cash to even think about doing some internal work.
So please i need some more feedback!!!!
I mean ill be putting a good amount of money just for the turbo kit alone you know. It will be at least 2 months or 3 months before i will actually have some extra cash to even think about doing some internal work.
So please i need some more feedback!!!!
03-20-2004
#5
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Rep Power: 0 Yeah...boy....dont worry...haha...you got all the help you need...And im learnin as i go along with you...Sucks man...we have hit every possible wall with your car...things will be ALOT better soon though...but yeah guys thanks...
KEEP THE REPLIES COMIN!!
KEEP THE REPLIES COMIN!!
03-20-2004
#7
Originally posted by cambo
there are numerous members on this board that are running 8 or 9 psi w/ alcohol injection on stock internals. Well, i should say 9 psi for EX or 7 psi MAX for LX/DX.
there are numerous members on this board that are running 8 or 9 psi w/ alcohol injection on stock internals. Well, i should say 9 psi for EX or 7 psi MAX for LX/DX.
i run 11psi on an lx .. i drive hard -
03-20-2004
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The major problem with the kit is the limited upgrade for coolling on the motor. Defentally go with an upgraded raditor. I don't know if anyone makes a cooller thermostat, but it would be your best investment with a turbo. I had a '94 with an FMAX kit. Blew two motors, on the third I upgraded every aspect of the cooling system and it has ran almost 75K on 17 psi with stock D16 internals. I also retarded the timing a couple more degrees. Here's a list of what I did to the '94.
1. New raditor, for those of you who know earlier civics, they used to only have half of a raditor, I took out the A/C and welded a Fluidyne raditor for a '89 Mustang 5.0 to it. Of course the 7thG doesn't have that option, but there is a Fluidyne upgrade, I think.
2. Thermostat, I got a brand new from Honda and drilled holes into the sides such that coolant would always be flowing through it.
3. rasied the pressure with a spoon raditor cap.
4. Put 75% ethylene glycol (anti freeze) in to the system to increase the heat capacity of the fluid.
5. If I ran it hard, I had a NOS purge valve set up on the raditor and intercooler to keep things cool. I never used the nitrous in the engine its self.
I'm a chemical engineer that has had some experience in designing high capacity cooling system far various things, so if you have any questions, please ask.
Hope this helps out.
1. New raditor, for those of you who know earlier civics, they used to only have half of a raditor, I took out the A/C and welded a Fluidyne raditor for a '89 Mustang 5.0 to it. Of course the 7thG doesn't have that option, but there is a Fluidyne upgrade, I think.
2. Thermostat, I got a brand new from Honda and drilled holes into the sides such that coolant would always be flowing through it.
3. rasied the pressure with a spoon raditor cap.
4. Put 75% ethylene glycol (anti freeze) in to the system to increase the heat capacity of the fluid.
5. If I ran it hard, I had a NOS purge valve set up on the raditor and intercooler to keep things cool. I never used the nitrous in the engine its self.
I'm a chemical engineer that has had some experience in designing high capacity cooling system far various things, so if you have any questions, please ask.
Hope this helps out.
03-20-2004
#14
BOOST JUNKY
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From: Wide Open Throttle
Rep Power: 0 You don't have to do internals to run boost. If you haven't gathered that thus far. Read more. It's all about fuel management really. I'm not saying you can boost 20psi on stock internals.....but you get the drift. Fuel...tuning and timing. Just get it right and you should be a.o.k.
Just boost the car. Run it at 5-7 psi and you will see. The higher you go, the more fuel you're gonna need. Compensate accordingly and tune tune tune.
You CAN do internals if you want to strengthen internals or lower the compression. But I highly suggest you do your homework before you go buyin parts like a madman.
Just boost the car. Run it at 5-7 psi and you will see. The higher you go, the more fuel you're gonna need. Compensate accordingly and tune tune tune.
You CAN do internals if you want to strengthen internals or lower the compression. But I highly suggest you do your homework before you go buyin parts like a madman.
03-20-2004
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Rep Power: 356 Make sure you research and learn what your buying before buying it. I too bought an SF turbo kit with upgraded turbo, equal length manifold and before it even touches my motor im making sure i learn as much as i can. You can boost on stock internals but its always best to at least build the eninge up a bit before installing.
03-20-2004
#16
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Rep Power: 0 thanks guys...this is helpin ALOT....lets keep this thread goin with some more replies and conversation....im learnin some things but wat you guys already know...and im sure im not the only person learning...lol
The cooling idea makes alot of sense to me...wat do the rest of you guys think?....anyone know where i can get a radiator from??
The cooling idea makes alot of sense to me...wat do the rest of you guys think?....anyone know where i can get a radiator from??
03-20-2004
#17
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From: Lexington, KY
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03-21-2004
#18
Originally posted by C2i0v0i1C
where ever u get it from ull have to custom make it fit.
i got mine at
www.crracing.com
where ever u get it from ull have to custom make it fit.
i got mine at
www.crracing.com
hey couldnt we use an aftermarket radiator for say... the rsx? and just have a new support backet welded like they do in the swap??
03-21-2004
#21
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Rep Power: 0 hahaha everyones an expert. 
If you really want to get some info talk to a well known shop. Everyone here just spouts what they heard someone else say who claimed to be an expert. Its a logical fallacy known as "Refering to a False Authority".
- Diemos
If you really want to get some info talk to a well known shop. Everyone here just spouts what they heard someone else say who claimed to be an expert. Its a logical fallacy known as "Refering to a False Authority".- Diemos
03-21-2004
#22
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Rep Power: 301 That maybe true for some people, but I've built 3 engines from the short block up. Two where turbo Honda motors, one now runs 9's in the quarter and the other is almost at 75K miles on the turbo system with 17 psi on stock internals. Built the both engines in my basement and tuned the cars with the help of Hondata over the phone.
Anouther tip I just thought of, oil... never go more than 3K and only use synthetic. Turbos make use of alot of heat produced by your engine. The oil is intern exposed to this heat. Normal oil can not with stand this heat and will chemically break down after only a few hundred mile thus shortnening the life of you turbo bearings and killing your engine. On the '94 that has almost 75K, the guy changes the oil every 2K, as I did when it was my car.
As far as timing and A/F ratios are concerned, I am assuming the company you are dealling with has done a good job in investegating this issue. But by retading the timing or making the motor run richer or buy improving the coolling your doing one thing, preventing knocking or pinging or whatever you want to call it. The advantage to making a super colling system is that you won't lose power, the other two will cause a small amount of power loss and power is why you're putting the thing in the first place. But if you stick to what they recommend for timing, boost, A/F, and upgrade your cooling system you shouldn't have a problem.
Anouther tip I just thought of, oil... never go more than 3K and only use synthetic. Turbos make use of alot of heat produced by your engine. The oil is intern exposed to this heat. Normal oil can not with stand this heat and will chemically break down after only a few hundred mile thus shortnening the life of you turbo bearings and killing your engine. On the '94 that has almost 75K, the guy changes the oil every 2K, as I did when it was my car.
As far as timing and A/F ratios are concerned, I am assuming the company you are dealling with has done a good job in investegating this issue. But by retading the timing or making the motor run richer or buy improving the coolling your doing one thing, preventing knocking or pinging or whatever you want to call it. The advantage to making a super colling system is that you won't lose power, the other two will cause a small amount of power loss and power is why you're putting the thing in the first place. But if you stick to what they recommend for timing, boost, A/F, and upgrade your cooling system you shouldn't have a problem.
03-22-2004
#25
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Rep Power: 0 Why is it that a ex can run 9 psi and and lx/dx can only run 7 psi. Shouldn't the lx/dx be able to run more boost because of its lower compression. Someone who actually has a turbo clear this up--dont want people to get the wrong idea
03-22-2004
#26
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Rep Power: 325 i still don't understand why people just slap turbos on their cars....
a motor not meant for boost will not do good in the long run....period. i know alot of people that blew their motors cause they didn't upgrade their internals, and they were driving around daily at say 6-7 psi. it seems all well find and good for a while, but then you start seeing smoke, smelling bad stuff, not starting right away.
I mean its your car do what you want, but i think before anyone slaps a turbo on their car they should look into doin some internal work, that way you can run that boost daily without worring about blowing headgaskets, burning valves, all that good stuff.
Its one thing to slap a bigger turbo on a eclipse or subaru and jack up the boost cause the engine is made for it, but a d17 did not come turbo from the factory. Think before you boost.
a motor not meant for boost will not do good in the long run....period. i know alot of people that blew their motors cause they didn't upgrade their internals, and they were driving around daily at say 6-7 psi. it seems all well find and good for a while, but then you start seeing smoke, smelling bad stuff, not starting right away.
I mean its your car do what you want, but i think before anyone slaps a turbo on their car they should look into doin some internal work, that way you can run that boost daily without worring about blowing headgaskets, burning valves, all that good stuff.
Its one thing to slap a bigger turbo on a eclipse or subaru and jack up the boost cause the engine is made for it, but a d17 did not come turbo from the factory. Think before you boost.
03-22-2004
#27
BOOST JUNKY
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From: Wide Open Throttle
Rep Power: 0 No offense, but if you look on honda-tech you'll see plenty of people runnin boost for quite a while on stock internals. (I've known people that have done just fine on it too...but if you wanna see proof go read some).
It's when people want alot more boost than stock internals are capable of handling that sh*t starts goin bad.
It's when people want alot more boost than stock internals are capable of handling that sh*t starts goin bad.
03-22-2004
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Rep Power: 301 Very true.... I, for instance, blew two motors because I didn't retard the timing enough and keep it cool enough while tring to cranck up the boost to 17 psi. If you want to run boost please do your homework before slapping a turbo on. Most of these companies are pretty good, but there pressured by their higher ups to make the kits simple to put on, so they neglect things like the cooling system. Eventually I did get it to work, but cost 3 motors. You don't need internals changed for 6-7 psi, just a good cooling system and a good ignition system where you can retard the timing when you don't need max power. If you think your heads will last though, your wrong. The heads are subjected to more heat normal and will require modifications, usually custom parts around the valves. The valve seals have a tendacy to go first followed by the guides then the oil comes in and you become all smoky. But internals, I haven't heard of many people blowing the rods through the piston wall or anything like that where the internals actually fail, so I don't see a reason for that. I could be wrong though.
By desing the headgasket is the weakest point in your motor. That's because it is easier to fix that than a ring or rod or something like that. If your blowing heads gaskets, that measn one of two things need to be done or maybe both. First you need to retard the timing more or second you need to run the motor richer. The real problem hear is actually fuel. These companies that are tuning the kit to run on better gas than what you may be running or even have avaiable to you. As a result the fuel and timing maps are not set right for your gas and your motor pings till the gasket blows. However by putting higher opctane in your car, the motor will creat more heat which is all more reason for what I've been saying, upgrade your cooling system.
As if for the LX/DX, I asked FMAX that same question becasue I had a '94 DX that I swapped an turbo D16 into, the connecting rods are thinner in that engine which makes them signifgantly weaker internally. However, Honda did this to make less internal inertia on the motor to give better MPG. I'v seen a good number of these cars turbo charged though and never heard of anyone having problems with the internals.
By desing the headgasket is the weakest point in your motor. That's because it is easier to fix that than a ring or rod or something like that. If your blowing heads gaskets, that measn one of two things need to be done or maybe both. First you need to retard the timing more or second you need to run the motor richer. The real problem hear is actually fuel. These companies that are tuning the kit to run on better gas than what you may be running or even have avaiable to you. As a result the fuel and timing maps are not set right for your gas and your motor pings till the gasket blows. However by putting higher opctane in your car, the motor will creat more heat which is all more reason for what I've been saying, upgrade your cooling system.
As if for the LX/DX, I asked FMAX that same question becasue I had a '94 DX that I swapped an turbo D16 into, the connecting rods are thinner in that engine which makes them signifgantly weaker internally. However, Honda did this to make less internal inertia on the motor to give better MPG. I'v seen a good number of these cars turbo charged though and never heard of anyone having problems with the internals.
03-22-2004
#29
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Rep Power: 301 Hawk... I've had two really fast turbo Hondas and one built B16 that has NA, and although the B16 had smaller dyno numbers, to killed the others. Don't be fooled by these big numbers these turbo guys are through out, my B16B had cicic type R cams with a '98 JDM intgra type-R final drive with a good intake and out ran almost everything. Wish I still had that car.
My '03 I am going for a similiar setup with a K20 from an RSX-S and a JDM integra type-R tranny with civic type-R cams and I'll have a much more flexible powerband than any turbo, not mention the nice smooth torque band.
My '03 I am going for a similiar setup with a K20 from an RSX-S and a JDM integra type-R tranny with civic type-R cams and I'll have a much more flexible powerband than any turbo, not mention the nice smooth torque band.
