Rep Power: 350

First off, I want to say that this isn't an attack on anyone at all. Most of you that have read my posts know that I don't start **** unless someone asks for it and I'm a pretty stand up guy.

Anyways, here goes:

As most know, I've had the sf kit for a while now. I originally bought it after the **** I went through with MaxRev. This was in late July/early August time frame. Mike Stafford and Catalyst both drove to Colorado from California to do the install so that I could race zinkyroo.

So we spent a whole weekend almost, putting the turbo and everything else in. It was very cool of them to come out and I was really excited. The night we finished, the headgasket blew because the air/water ic was pinching off a coolant line. Now think what you will about whose fault it is, it's done and over but after the fact, I talked to Mike Stafford and asked him what we could do about setting me up with a fmic and pipes. I offered to pay shipping and whatever else he thought was fair. He told me no problem, we'll take care of you. I was told many times after that that it was at the powdercoater, a week later, it's at the powdercoater, a few weeks later, more kits go out, it's going to the powdercoater. So eventually I kind of gave up on waiting for the fmic and pipes and decided to stick with the air/water just because it was easier.

After several attempts at replacing the headgasket, The engine finally blew because I wasn't torquing the head bolts correctly. I replaced the engine and took the turbo to a local shop to have them inspect it just to make sure I wouldn't have any other issues (God knows, I've had my share.) I got it back from them and swapped out my engine. I put the turbo back in and ran it for the first night and it ran great. No problems at all. The next day, I took a drive to Denver and noticed that in certain gears, the turbo wouldn't boost, but it would just whine.

After troubleshooting everything I could think to do, I finally realized it was a bent turbo shaft. It could've been due to the local shop not putting it together correctly and it could've been due to the turbo itself, there is no sure way to know at this point, the damage is done.

I talked to Catalyst and Mike Stafford and they told me that they would see what their turbo guy would do on whether he would warranty it or not. So, I sent them the turbo hoping we could solve this quickly. They received the turbo two weeks ago, tomorrow and I still have no idea whether the turbo will be warrantied or if I have to pay out of pocket to fix it. Even if I have to pay a hundred bucks or two, I wouldn't mind so much if I knew and had a realistic timeline. I've been talking to Catalyst and he told me that the turbo guy has to decide whether to warranty it or not. He hasn't had a chance to check it out yet because they're so swamped, etc. But I don't want to wait for the next two months to get my turbo back. I would just assume go buy a new t3/t4 or a t3.

My reason for posting this is because I want opinions. I've paid over 5k for a turbo setup almost 6 months ago that I haven't been able to use for more than 500 miles and it sucks. I want to know what you would do in my situation. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying an sf setup at all but I do think they should re-evaluate the way they do business.

So let's hear it.......

 
Rep Power: 469

what a waste of money...that's why i don't purchase things for that types of amount of money unless there local but i dunno that's just IMO. good luck though

 
Rep Power: 608

Personally, i feel for you. All of ur problems seem to never end. I would call up mike and tell him that i need my car and i need it now. Call ur turbo guy now and get back to me immeditely.

I would be willing to pay for a new turbo just so i can drive my car again.

And i agree, they need to hire more ppl. Stafford and 2 employees isn't gonna cut it.

 
Rep Power: 312

Interesting thing - and this isn't a cut on SF - BUT, with the amount of money their charging for their kits, maybe its time to e x p a n d and hire other guys, or pay for a fab shop to do some of the work? I mean, it seems like there are a lot of other people here who are starting to get POed about waiting for their products.....I am starting to wonder if I'll get the run around when all I ordered was a manifold and downtube, etc....not even a full kit.

 
Rep Power: 585

personally i dont like mail order warranty, thats why i choose local, the price may be steeper, but the reliability and speed at which things get done is to my liking more, THE TURBO GUY, cant be that busy, what is he fabricating turbos from scratch, u cant tell me that he doesnt have a hour to go look at ur turbo sitting in the box in his office or whereever, i say unless it going to be at ur door within another two weeks, send it back to you now u take it to a place local and pay to have it fixed and be done,then send SF the bill, a shaft is internal so its not like u inflicted the damage, 500 miles or less, it shouldnt break, u people waiting 4-5 months to get ur kits hold geezzzz, it took 3 months for my car to be completely redone, come on i had a motor swap, did a return, rebuilt the bottom end, and had most everything fabricated to fit my car, 3 months

 
Rep Power: 608

yeah, and it took u 2 months to get ur pistons

 
Rep Power: 585

ok if were going to be picky, 5 months, to get pistons made and rods made and everything installed and on the road

 
Rep Power: 608

oh yeah, i forgot......it was 5 months

 
Rep Power: 585

5 months:
SWAP
RETURN FUEL
INSTALL TURBO AND REALATED PARTS
FABRICATE DP AND EXHAUST
BUILD BOTTOM END
BASE TUNING
DYNO 2hrs
PUT IN NEW FRONT SUSPENSION (springs, struts)
WIRING ALL ELECTRONICS

or

5 months
1 SF Kit

im not gunna argue the time length all night, 5 months for a kit is kinda long IMO in any shape or form

 
Rep Power: 402

andyman, if theres one person i feel bad for other than myself, its you.
you say you paid $5k for a turbo set up 6 months ago and hardly got to use it, i paid $3k for a turbo set up 4 months ago and never got to see it. i feel your situation totally. i sometimes wonder how SF handles business. they said they couldnt pay me back until everyone from the groupbuy paid for their kits, but does their ENTIRE business income depend on 7thgen members?? last time i checked....no. afterall they claim to be making all these kits for all these cars, are they making them for free???
i hope everyone considering a kit from them reads these posts before buying a kit, if i knew i was gonna end up without a kit or $3100 for over 4 months, i wouldnt have even thought about buying it. it took me a long *** time to save up that amount of cash and now it seems its gonna take even longer for me to get it back. seems they dont take the kits seriously, cuz how many of us can really drive down there to check and see if the pipes are really going to the powdercoater?? know what i mean?

 
Rep Power: 0

Here's what you do....

Stafford Fabrications obviously doesn't have the man power to follow-up with anything they have said.....frustrating I'm sure...
Funny how everyone is waiting for their kits and catalysts car keeps getting new mods...
I would be pissed if I was you....

I built my own kit, pieced stuff together and used stafford fabrications over the phone only for bits and pieces of advice from their experiences...

It took me a little over a month and approx $2000 to build my kit, it's hard work, I'm insanely proud that everyone who looks at it asks me where I got it and who installed it and I can say I built and installed it myself and I've run into different issues but the bottom line is: I spent less money, took less time, learned more about my car, it's running awesome right now, and I will be turning up the boost soon....

Good luck bro....

B

 
Rep Power: 608

you said....."here's what you do" ......but never gave him ur oppinion. He isn't gonna build his own kit when he already spent $5,000 on one and all he needs is a turbo.

 
Rep Power: 312

Things are starting to get interesting....curious to know how this turns out. I'm sure they'll rectify things once they see people are starting to get upset at their customer service......

 
Rep Power: 327

As far as I know, they are fixing their problem. I feel for 18sec and Andyman don't get me wrong. but according to Cat and Mike S., they move into their new shop on Feb 1st. Things will go a lot faster then. 18sec, I know that doesn't explain your refund, that's the one thing I've seen that makes no sense what so ever. Andyman, you have been having bad luck, and unfortunately u aren't getting the service u deserve. Yes i agree their customer service should get a lot better, but it is picking up slowly, and by mid feb things should be a lot better.

 
Rep Power: 0

Something you guys have to consider about stuff breaking is you are turbocharging a motor that was never designed to be turbocharged.

Stuff breaking is solely the owners fault for even putting a kit on in the first place. It is a gamble you take in to your own hands. You sacrifice reliability for performance, that goes for any car. Blowing a head gasket would be a mistake by the operator of the car for not examing there equipment thoroughly. If you don't have the mechanical know how or whatever you shouldn't have gotten a kit in the first place. Personally I don't let anyone work on my cars because I want to know what goes in it and how it works.

The deal with Stafford is and I know because I manufacture part for them is that they blew up quick. I'm currently running 40 Kits worth of parts for them right now. When they get there new shop you can expect better communications but its only partial there responsibility.

For all you people with troubles you might want to consider on why stuff is breaking and how you operate your vehicle. I know plenty of people who take the time to maintain and examine there systems and they run flawlessly for them.

Well this is just my 1.8 cents after Tax

 
Rep Power: 585

if my manifold cracks at a weld point that is 100 percent not my fault, i also dont think a bent turbine shaft is the owners fault either, unless he/she took the turbo apart, messes with it and then tried putting it back together

 
Rep Power: 327

Yeah I'm not against anyone's side here... The only prob I had with my SF kit was do to my lack of concern for properly sealing the oil pan. It's run flawlessly since, minus the minore fuel probs, which SF is fixing for me.

 
Rep Power: 585

welll well welll spoken, i had to put a 50% down payment on my parts, and nothing on labor, so lets see i put down 2500 on my 10k job, the rest was paid upon delivery

so lets see with the last 5 months cats car has gotten a new and improved head, IC, piping, Manifold, and been to the dyno, customers should come first, and can sue if they dont get what they are told, i know ive seen it first hand around here, one shop locally screwed with a customer and got themselves into a suit that they los for 65,000 bucks

 
Rep Power: 0

You are not saying much... Ive seen 100k motor pissed away in less then 100 miles. Ive did enough work on southwest tour nascars watching (cheap) 20 k cranks seize when the dry sump oil lines pinch... not to mention melting heads and other mean stuff...

Who would you blame the manufacture of the oil line the crank, or do you accept that it is the price to pay for high performance...

OH yea... and if you are not inteligent enough to ask how long its going to take and you still give then the deposit again thats an operator deal...

 
Rep Power: 0

As i said....

Look into why it breaks... Most people are iincompetent.

 
Rep Power: 413

Madwheel, how long did it take for you to get your MBC and alc inj? Exactly.

Make a stink about the turbo with Mike and it might help, but strongly consider buying a new turbo on your own....

The problem with SF is that their business is growing much faster than they expected it to. They can not handle their current business. That is all it comes down to. From the months and months of threads about these guys, it seems like they are all decent guys to deal with. The problem comes in when they have too much demand for their time, that is when customer service suffers.

IMO, They need to staff up more (like people mentioned), focus on getting what business they already have done (waiting 4 months, c'mon people), work with their suppliers that they keep having problems with to fix the problems of the supply chain, among other things.

The real question here, which only one person can answer, is whether Mike has enough managerial knowledge and experience to handle the larger company (and associated problems/ issues) that SF needs to become if they want to keep growing at the rate the public wants them to....


Just my $0.02....

 
Rep Power: 0

Very good response Havok2K1

 
Rep Power: 0

this is definitely making me want to take my business and money and put it toward a Turbo Discounters kit!

 
Rep Power: 327

That's the most valuable 2 cents i've seen lol. yes a lot of small things took a while... and you're completely right...

about the 5 k for something to break... i think everyone else with an sf kit would agree that they aren't cheap in quality. the only major problem i had with mine was caused me, not the kit.

 
Rep Power: 402

if they cant handle the business, then do not accept it or work in priority, first to pay for their kit is the first to get their kit, weither it be someone who walks in the shop or someone online.
this is not the way to run a business by having honest paying customers wait 4-5 months. you know when you walk into a drug store or grocery store and they have a 1 hour photo service, have you ever seen the machines they use to get all of it done? i fix those machines, that is my job. when i dont show up on time or have to postpone it for just 1 day, i get my *** chewed out, i get yelled at, swear'd at, etc... all because that photo dept. lost 1 days worth of sells, which is on average about $200-300. i would lose my job if i made someone wait 4-5 months or if they lost over $3k worth of business. someone said its normal to think that when SF says the kit will be ready in 4-6 weeks to expect it in 3-4 months. this is NOT the way it should be. if SF says it should be ready in 4-6 weeks then it should be ready IN 4-6 WEEKS! after all arent they the ones who know how much work they need to get done before they start work on the kit? arent they the ones who have to make the kits? if they say they can deliever in 4-6 weeks, i dont see how they could let that turn into 3-4 months....

 
Rep Power: 344

i think it would probably make sense if SF made people pay some sort of deposit, say $100 to make the kit. Then once the kit is done, boxed up and ready to go, have the person pay for kit.

I recently purchased a wiring harness for Hasport (a great company). They made me submit my payment, but didn't actually charge my credit card till the wiring harness had shipped. And they engineered and sent the harness out in one week. Same thing with my mounts, i had them a week after my order.

I personally, after reading this thread, would not do buisness with SF until they got their act together, seens like a very poorly run buisness IMHO.

If i was you Andyman, i'd have SF refund the money for your Turbo immediately and take your buisness to a bigger more reliable company.

 
Rep Power: 0

lol 100 is cheap. i think 1k is more like it ...

 
Rep Power: 344

$1,000 is alot to throw at something you might never get.

 
Rep Power: 0

yea but you also have to figure its a large enough amount that the customer wont walk away from. also so that the shop has some decent money up front to make ur kit or buy parts and know that ur serious.

 
Rep Power: 344

even if the customer does walk away, they'll have a kit for the next customer, and if you make the $100 non-refundable less people will walk away.

When i bought my car i gave them $100 as a deposit on a 16,100 car, would they have waisted the money if i didn't come back to get it?