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I have an extremely large amount of oil that's been blowing through my crankcase breather. My car is boosted and I had driven it around n/a for a week and a half without the turbo but after I put it back on, I had alot of oil blowing out until finally there was a ton of smoke out of my tailpipe and coming out of the breather itself (it was a darkish gray color.) Wondering what may be the cause of it, it only seems to be an issue under boost. Not to mention I can start the car and it runs but it sounds horrible and still blows smoke through the breather. Any ideas welcomed.

 
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--> FI forum

 
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Just curious....this isn't a question about fi or a swap, it's an issue with the engine, why move it?

 
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I don't know..... blow-by is usually bad rings...... Not a good sign.
If you had access to a borescope you could look inside the cylinders and see. I had a mercedes years ago with a similar problem. Took the motor apart and a piston had cracked between the rings.

 
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this is a bad sign

 
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Well there was alot of blow by before. I replaced the headgasket and ran it n/a for a week and a half with no problem whatsoever. Then I put the turbo back on, ran it a little and I started having alot of oil blow out again. Then after a run, I went to make a u-turn and the car died out. I started it back up and it was smoking like crazy from the exhaust and the breather on the valve cover.

But, the map sensor check valve was bad and causing issues before but I don't know if that could have been a part of the problem or not. Now when I start the car, it runs but I have smoke blowing out of the breather still.

 
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ur motor is done i ran the symptoms by my shop and the most u can do is do a leak down test, which only confirm the same thing, that ur motor is done, u have a fried piston, the rings are melted to the piston, nothing left to do but rebuild it, i even told the shop about u going NA for a while, they still said the same thing MOTOR DONE WITH, happy building

 
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yea sounds like u fried a piston ring.. and its escaping threw there...

i had oil clouds comming out my exhaust for a week or so when i first installed my turbo, but that was cause the turbo seals had to form....

my boy with the same problem ur describing, hes got a GSR turbo'd turned out that he had fried a piston and was running on 3 cylnders, he was getting smoke while driving, while idle and his idle was all ****ed Up..

 
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My car did this too when I first put the turbo on, but after a month or 2 it stopped.

 
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Nothing against you or what you posted. The main reason I move threads is so people can get the proper help for their problems in the right forum.

Having been here over 2.5 years, I can tell you that people with very specific tech and modification problems usually do not get the best answers in the Vehicle issues forum.

 
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Totally understood. I agree with you totally but sense told me to post it in the other forum. I would have posted in here but I figured it would've been moved to the other one....go figure, lol.

Anyways, as far as a damaged piston or worn ring, I can't see how that could cause that problem, being as they basically haven't got much to do with eachother. What I'm thinking is that maybe the pcv or a hose came disconnected somewhere maybe. If there was oil blowing past the rings, it would be compressed in the cylinder and blown out of the tailpipe, not out of the breather tube.

 
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Not so, when a ring is bad, combustion pressure blows down into the engine/crankcase. It has to find it's way out somewhere, so it blows past the oil return holes in the head and out the breather. Too much oil in the crankcase could also make it smoke.

 
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i think they do have alot in common

 
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Try disconnecting your PCV valve from the intake manifold and plugging up the port on the manifold. It's on the drivers side of the manifold. If it's plugged into the manifold still, you are letting the PCV recieve pressure where it normally sees vacuum. My oil catch can recirculates the PCV to the intake so it always sees vacuum and never boost. To my knowledge, you aren't supposed to recirculate the PCV into the manifold on a boosted engine. You are forcing air the wrong way.

***I'm not talking about the breather... I'm talking about the actual PCV valve below the intake manifold.***

 
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Any pics of what you did? Also, I never had smoke of anykind, even when I first installed the turbo kit. I think I got pretty lucky then.

 
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i dont think he will have any pictures of that bc he doesnt have the problem. that is just a diagnostic tactic. i still say the the motor is done

 
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Even if I have a burnt ring or even a broken landing, that doesn't mean the engine is done, it just means it's time for some forged internals.

 
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I don't have any pics... maybe I'll hook up a diagram. It's pretty simplistic.

 
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mmmmkay

 
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I agree, I've seen plenty of FI motors w/ this problem and almost everytime it's the rings. If there is blowby, the crankcase gets pressurized and oil and smoke can get everywhere... Definitely (sp?) try looking at the PCV system, it's worth a shot. You obviously would rather it be a $3 hose instead of a $1000 rebuild.... To test the rings, just do a leakdown test and you'll know for sure...

And if you do need new rings, do yourself a favor and get some good blower rings. Also make sure that you set ring gap for a blower motor...

 
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by done i mean rebuild it, hence the "HAPPY BUILDING" at the end of one of my posts

 
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(referring to post #19)

I'd like to bring this topic back to life now that I'm preparing to install my turbo-- please bare with my questions

Boosted2k2 (or anyone),

1) what did you purchase to complete this project? I want to make sure I get the right size catch-can, fittings, and tubing.

2) how do you properly seal-off the intake manifold line-in?

3) when connecting the line to the intake piping, did you have to cut and weld on a fitting for the line, or is there an easier way? (I have an SF turbo kit)


does anyone have pics of this mod?

edit: well after looking at a few member pictures, I am even more confused. some people have a catch-can w/filter connected to the valve-cover PCV-- and that's it. Is this another effective way to relieve pressure on the crankcase? (and collect oil, yadda yadda..)

let me guess, is it just more effective to run the PCV tube from the side of the crankcase to the same can, then run a 3rd hose from the catch-can to the intake piping?

I don't know if i'm going somewhere with this or not,.. i'm just a newb

 
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Exactly. This way your crankcase will be able to expel pressure while you are boosting. Otherwise, the positive pressure in the intake manifold will keep your PCV valve closed. Just make sure you tap the intake piping BEFORE the turbo, so all the hose ever sees is vacuum.

 
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what did u guys do with your breather hose?? should i send it into intake or not? i blow a slight bit of oil out of it. only cuz i can see it on the pipe going into the throttle body. should i put a filter on it? or should i leave it go to atmoshere or send it into intake?

 
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Right now mine just has a filter on the valve cover breather, but I'm going to plumb it through my catch can when I install that on the next rainy day. That way the vacuum of the pre-turbo intake pipe will help clear out any vapors in the head, and the catch can will filter out the oil before it goes back into the intake stream.

 
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A friend of mine had this same problem, took the breather off and returned it to the original setup and everything was fine then.

 
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According to the Helm manual, the PVC system on our cars has the VC breather as in *intake* for fresh air into the VC, down to the crankcase, and the crankcase vents into the intake mani through the PVC valve. This is what I've read is the case for Hondas in general.

If this is true, oil should never blow out of the VC breather (since air is supposed to go into it, not out of it), and for turbo'd cars the VC breather should be plumbed to atmosphere (or to the intake pipe before the turbo). If the VC breather were plumbed to the intake tract after the turbo, the intake pressure would in turn pressurize the VC.

As for the PVC valve that is routed to the intake manifold, that can be left alone since, by design, the PVC valve only allows venting from crankcase to manifold when the manifold is in vacuum. Granted, the PVC valve will then stay closed more often with a boosted car (only in vacuum at closed thottle), but it will do the job of preventing manifold pressure from pressurizing the crankcase. And when you let off the throttle, the crankcase blow-by pressure will be released. A catch can inline from PVC valve to manifold would help ensure oil is removed from what is vented from the crankcase.

Wouldn't this setup be ideal, or am I misunderstanding or missing something? Why does everyone seem to think that the VC breather has air blowing out of it? Check the Helm manual.

Cheers.

 
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check your pistons and rings .. my buds H22 turbo'd accord was doing the same thing .. so we ripped his block apart and noticed 2 pistons were cracked

 
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but would the pressure that builds up while you are ON the throttle be enough to blow a gasket? I can understand why you say to route the breather line to the intake, but would it be safe to also run the crankcase PCV to the same intake pipe and just plug-up the manifold?

 
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There's a ton of info on the Honda PCV system for both NA and FI on Honda-Tech.com. Some of the info contradicts others.

What seems to be fact is that, during vacuum/idle, the VC breather is *intake* for the PCV system and the PCV valve lets the crankcase pressure exit into the manifold. During boost/load, the PCV valve is closed and so crankcase pressure is forced up into the valve cover and OUT through the VC breather.

So my previous post was only half right. The other half is that under load/boost, the VC breather absolutely becomes an outlet rather than intake.

IMO, the best solution would be to put a catch can inline from PCV valve to intake manifold to catch crankcase blow-by oil vapor (which is increased with turbo conversion cars) and to route the VC breather to the air filter pipe, pre-turbo (same as what I said in my last post :-). BUT, I'm not sure how much oil vapor come out of the VC breather while the PCV valve is closed. If there's a lot, the oil will build up in the IC after being sucked in by the turbo. Could get ugly in the longer term. So it might make sense to put a second catch can inline from VC breather to air filter pipe.

You cannot use the same catch can because the one inline from PCV valve to intake manifold will see vacuum and pressure. You don't want that for the one inline from VC breather to air filter pipe.

Might not be the only correct solution, but is definitely one of them ;-)