big puddle
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 0
From: Burbs, Illinois, US
Rep Power: 0 
big puddle
It rained hard as hell today...
I was driving from the paintball store bby my house when i went through a puddle. it didn't seem that deep but it was deep enough for my tsunami front end to scoop water into my injen CAI. Bad enough i have a heat shield installed to act as a scoop for the air. My car bogged and almost dies, it ran like shiet for like 10 seconds. Smoke billowing out the exhaust, i freaked out then it started running OK again. it still gurgles and idles rough, but no major damage. Guess it's time to invest in a Bypass valve, eh?
I was driving from the paintball store bby my house when i went through a puddle. it didn't seem that deep but it was deep enough for my tsunami front end to scoop water into my injen CAI. Bad enough i have a heat shield installed to act as a scoop for the air. My car bogged and almost dies, it ran like shiet for like 10 seconds. Smoke billowing out the exhaust, i freaked out then it started running OK again. it still gurgles and idles rough, but no major damage. Guess it's time to invest in a Bypass valve, eh?
ntome: 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 400 
well, 2 things.
Water "splashing" onto the intake won't do jack schitt. It's possible it MIGHT do something if you are flooring it WOT and a lot of water was splashing on it. Otherwise, it has to be totally submerged in order to suck water in.
The second thing is, you do realize the bypass valve takes away most of the power you might have gained. CAI's are designed to create a resonant pulse through the pipe, almost creating a reverse scavaging effect. This is part of where they get their power from. (other than the colder dense air) If you get a bypass valve, it almost negates any power you would have gained.
Water "splashing" onto the intake won't do jack schitt. It's possible it MIGHT do something if you are flooring it WOT and a lot of water was splashing on it. Otherwise, it has to be totally submerged in order to suck water in.
The second thing is, you do realize the bypass valve takes away most of the power you might have gained. CAI's are designed to create a resonant pulse through the pipe, almost creating a reverse scavaging effect. This is part of where they get their power from. (other than the colder dense air) If you get a bypass valve, it almost negates any power you would have gained.
#1 S2000 Fan
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 0
From: The home of a million legends
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by S2000man01
well, 2 things.
Water "splashing" onto the intake won't do jack schitt. It's possible it MIGHT do something if you are flooring it WOT and a lot of water was splashing on it. Otherwise, it has to be totally submerged in order to suck water in.
The second thing is, you do realize the bypass valve takes away most of the power you might have gained. CAI's are designed to create a resonant pulse through the pipe, almost creating a reverse scavaging effect. This is part of where they get their power from. (other than the colder dense air) If you get a bypass valve, it almost negates any power you would have gained.
well, 2 things.
Water "splashing" onto the intake won't do jack schitt. It's possible it MIGHT do something if you are flooring it WOT and a lot of water was splashing on it. Otherwise, it has to be totally submerged in order to suck water in.
The second thing is, you do realize the bypass valve takes away most of the power you might have gained. CAI's are designed to create a resonant pulse through the pipe, almost creating a reverse scavaging effect. This is part of where they get their power from. (other than the colder dense air) If you get a bypass valve, it almost negates any power you would have gained.
I wish I understood what you said........
that would really **** me off if it took away all the hp!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 400 Originally posted by ViNRoCk8
Now that I thought about it, I understand what S2Gman means....
But if the air is still flowing good, how is it gonna take all the hp away......
Now that I thought about it, I understand what S2Gman means....
But if the air is still flowing good, how is it gonna take all the hp away......
The second way is this. The shape and curve of an intake is the way it is for an exact scientific reason. They are designed to create a feedback "pulse" that is in tune with the way the engine is opening/closing valves, constantly changing pressure. The science is, is that at certain RPM's at WOT, these resonant "pulses" or vacuums can be manipulated by the intake to almost create a forced induction effect. Now it's no way near the scale of turbo or something, but it's similar to that. Using the natural pulses of the engine, combined with the designed shape of the pipe actually forced just a bit more air into the intake manifold. You've seen the new intake by AEM that has a funny shape and larger pipe to start, leading to a smaller pipe? That's why it's that shape, and where it gets a little extra power from.
The same science is used in exhaust headers and the exhaust, creating a scavaging effect by timing pulses from when the exhaust valves open and close. It helps create a "suction" force that gets rid of more of the dirty air/exhaust in the combustion chamber.
soooo, if you cut the pipe and put in a bypass valve, that ruins the scienctific side of the intake since the measurements used designing the intake are no longer in effect, thus taking away probably close to half the HP you gained.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 400 Actually, honda ECU's are learning ECU's. The little extra air that the intake produces will be learned by your ECU during normal closed loop operation. Most honda ECU's adjust for that. They have a target mapping and AF ratio for closed loop operation. If more air is introduced, thus turning the mixture slightly leaner, the ECU will over the next couple hundred miles, learn this, and add a bit more fuel to the mixture to even it out.
#1 S2000 Fan
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 0
From: The home of a million legends
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by S2000man01
soooo, if you cut the pipe and put in a bypass valve, that ruins the scienctific side of the intake since the measurements used designing the intake are no longer in effect, thus taking away probably close to half the HP you gained.
soooo, if you cut the pipe and put in a bypass valve, that ruins the scienctific side of the intake since the measurements used designing the intake are no longer in effect, thus taking away probably close to half the HP you gained.
Can't i just hook up the bypass where the piping already comes cut.......that would be a little better wouldn't it.
I have seen alot of cars that have done it that way
I just don't believe that if the piping is 1" longer, or maybe even less, that this will have such a negative effect on the "science of the intake"
Last edited by ViNRoCk8; Apr 7, 2003 at 01:20 PM.
ive seen dyno proof on the bypass valve it doesnt even lower intake HP gain by .000000000000000000001 HP
it also wont help splash up.. only submergence because it works by vac pressure if it gets submerged it sucks it open.
it also wont help splash up.. only submergence because it works by vac pressure if it gets submerged it sucks it open.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 400 Originally posted by mykungfuisthebest
ive seen dyno proof on the bypass valve it doesnt even lower intake HP gain by .000000000000000000001 HP
it also wont help splash up.. only submergence because it works by vac pressure if it gets submerged it sucks it open.
ive seen dyno proof on the bypass valve it doesnt even lower intake HP gain by .000000000000000000001 HP
it also wont help splash up.. only submergence because it works by vac pressure if it gets submerged it sucks it open.
my resource for this info is an s2ki.com member who owns a dyno shop and does the tuning himself. oh yeah, and this company called hondata (like who ever heard of them? haha) does all their research and developement AT HIS dyno shop.
so he kinda knows what he's talkin about.
I just don't believe that if the piping is 1" longer, or maybe even less, that this will have such a negative effect on the "science of the intake"
#1 S2000 Fan
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 0
From: The home of a million legends
Rep Power: 0 I totally understand what your point is s2kman is but CAI make most of their power from the denser air that they bring in, not the flow of the intake. Hell a short ram flows better than CAI, everybody knows that. Does that mean it makes more power???? No. CAI make most of its power from the denser air and the bypass doesn't make the air hotter does it?
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 400 Originally posted by ViNRoCk8
I totally understand what your point is s2kman is but CAI make most of their power from the denser air that they bring in, not the flow of the intake. Hell a short ram flows better than CAI, everybody knows that. Does that mean it makes more power???? No. CAI make most of its power from the denser air and the bypass doesn't make the air hotter does it?
I totally understand what your point is s2kman is but CAI make most of their power from the denser air that they bring in, not the flow of the intake. Hell a short ram flows better than CAI, everybody knows that. Does that mean it makes more power???? No. CAI make most of its power from the denser air and the bypass doesn't make the air hotter does it?
and if it takes away 2hp from an original gain of 6hp, then that's quite a loss, IMO. 33%
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
From: phoenix, Arizona, US
Rep Power: 0 wow, so many people trying to be right, first off, dont spend money if it isnt neccessary i.e. the bypass valve not even worth it, ive had my cai for the longest, well two years, and ive been through terrible rains that people would wait overnight for the storm to blow over. but the fact of the matter is, u got water in ur intake, and ur engine is acting funny sometimes? no its a problem even a little water is something to consult a mechanic about, but listen to your idle, they way things make noise, if anything acts up, get it fixed, cause it gets worse the longer u wait, i hydrolocked my first stick car, 97 neon sport, had an iceman only, that car felt like it could go at least mid to high fifteens, damn near stock, oh well, ive learned how not to kill my car, but i pay attention to it like a loved one, with patients and confidence.
and for the record, s2gman was right about the ecu, it does learn to a certain extent, for example went to flagstaff once wiht my cai on, and i went from phoenix, so three g elevation climb, the day i got back, my car had this idle problem, turned it off called my brother and he told me let it run, the computer will reset the air/fuel ratio settings from the drastic elevation changes, there ya all go
eric<---out of type, instead of breath
and for the record, s2gman was right about the ecu, it does learn to a certain extent, for example went to flagstaff once wiht my cai on, and i went from phoenix, so three g elevation climb, the day i got back, my car had this idle problem, turned it off called my brother and he told me let it run, the computer will reset the air/fuel ratio settings from the drastic elevation changes, there ya all go
eric<---out of type, instead of breath
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
Rep Power: 0 i've read that the learning ECU will actually decrease the performance of your mods over time, because it wants to re-create the stock specs of the engine... i.e. if you get an intake, it will perform better for a while, but once the ECU starts learning, it will reset the A/F ratio etc. to make the engine perform as if it were stock. thus the priority to get a hondata flashed ECU. any truth to this theory?
Premium Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 0
From: Alabama, US
Rep Power: 0 I just took off my FIPK because I think I was losing torque. I have an automatic trans. The reason I think this is because the car downshifts earlier on hils or when just punching the throttle a little going around a street coner, etc. The only thing I can figure is that it has to downshift because torque is lower. I'm sure something eles is also happening to the MAP. I think some of the "power gains" with automatic is just because it's running in the lower gears more, thus more "power" to the wheels.
Any thoughts on this?
Any thoughts on this?
