NAstage2

I decided to have Bubba at Do-it-Dyno do my tune. I’ve always heard great things about him, plus Church was booked when I had called.

Anyway, the car had been running OKAY since I got the cams in and upped the CR, but I could notice a large flat spot before VTEC. Heh, as you can see by the "baseline" it was more of a canyon then a flat spot. Reason being was that we had VTEC engaging too late, making this problem.

A few things to keep in mind about this dyno though.

Everyone at the shop, even before we ran said it always dynos low. Pretty much every other dyno they have used show 8-10WHP more then theirs. Interesting to say the least. I suppose if its true, and I’m being conservative, then I’m making ~190WHP, which is exactly where I figured I would be.

Also, the "baseline" wasn’t really a "baseline". This was after he took my chip out and programmed what he thought would be good for my set up. So really it’s after he "tuned it by ear" so to speak, then they used the first pull (which they cut short because of that dearth of power there) to see which kinks needed to be ironed out.

As you can see it took 4 more pulls to get it perfect.

One other thing too. I had had the rev limit set to 9200RPMs. The cams for sure make power that high, and my valve train/internals can take it for sure. The limiting factor for that right now is the fact that I’m running the stock B16A2 intake manifold and TB, which weren’t designed to make power past 8200... Even now we have the rev-limit set to 8500 and I’m amazed it climbs that far, but that’s just another thing Ill have to take care of later.

Oh, and you might want to know why there is no torque figure. They broke whatever deal it is they need to hook up the dyno to read the torque on the turdbo GSR they had on before me (286WHP/279tq @ 10PSI and stock B18C1 block after the tune). So no tq. read for me, although I’m sure its somewhere above the 140 wheel mark right now.

It’s good that I have the dyno day set up on the 20th at the dyno I used before the cams and what not. It will offer me a chance to really see how much of an improvement I made with said modifications.

BTW, on a side note... these guys did an AWESOME job. Bubba is THE most knowledgeable car person I have ever met (and I’ve met quite a few really knowledgeable people in this field). The shop looks and feels very professional, and all the people there are very friendly. They even went out and got me Mickey D's while I was waiting for the teg to finish.

We were having problems throwing a CEL after the tune. It was something I had before and couldn’t fix, which was "bad VTEC solenoid" or code 22. This wouldn’t let VTEC engage. We thought it was because I’m using a modified P06 ECU instead of the standard P28 or Hondata and these have problems like that. So he offered to sell me a P28 and hook it up on the spot for 100 bucks.

Bubba went under the dash to remove my ECU, looked at the wiring harness (looks like the pic here but every wire is the same purple color)



He noticed that ONE frigging wire was one space off, and he KNEW it was for the VTEC solenoid! SO he cracked it open, rewired the wire, plugged my ECU back in and it ran like a champ, and POOF! No CEL! On top of that he didn’t charge me any extra for the work and saved me (and cost him) 100 bucks. Above and beyond guys! Total charge? 200 bucks for a good 3 hours of work.

Anyway he said he will tune anything that has fuel management and can fir on his 2wd dyno. If anyone is interested give him a call at 562-424-6162 they are located by Signal Hill in Long Beach, CA.

fixeruper

iTrader: (3)

how much? you should go to some of the local meets...

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

sounds like a good place for some tuning. i assume by church, you meant church automotive? yeah.... hehe, he knows his sh*t don't he. lol. can we say hondata?

what kind of dyno did they use for you? dynojet?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

thats a strange dyno. no torque curve, and mph instead of rpms? I can't really tell anything from it except peak hp. Well at least everything is tuned. What was the a/f like before and after?

NAstage2

i believe it was a mustang dyno.

Yes, I mean shawn @ church automotive.

And how much what?

We have a local dyno meet this month on the 20th. see signature.

I didnt get an AF printout.

This was for tuning. If you want the figures you were asking about wait till the 20th.

fixeruper

iTrader: (3)

how much did it cost?, no i mean car meets, and im already going on the 20th

NAstage2

it was in the text i posted above.

cliffs notes: $200

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

if it was a mustang dyno, you'll probably be making more like 200whp on a dynojet. mustang dynos are load bearing dynos, which is why they dyno lower than most.

NAstage2

this is what i was saying.

djmota

iTrader: (34)

good numbers on a mustang dyno Bubba is the man. If I get ems I think he would be choice one for a tuner.

fixeruper

iTrader: (3)

my bad i must of missed it

Michalo187

iTrader: (33)

good numbers

bgoetz

iTrader: (1)

yeah they are alot lower. To put it into perspective I watched a type S with I/h/e (should have been atleast 190whp on any other dyno) dyno at 175whp and everyone was excited by that. So I would say 180whp is good. I would like to see the torque curve though
edit:183 whp that is good

bgoetz

iTrader: (1)

I guess I am a big fan of the mustang dyno though becuase they are much more "real" results and allow a good tunner to tune the car that much better.

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

it's not really "real" per se any more so than a dynojet. It simply puts a constant load on the car, which is also not exactly accurate since the car would really be fighting a more dynamic load.

vector4

by looking at the printed graph thats a dynojet

NAstage2

as per the owner is load bearing.

Redline04

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like some typical ricer excuses to me.
Congratulations on spending all that money to make those great numbers. Oh and according to your power to weight ratio theory you wont be seeing 13's.
I guess I know why you were hating on me so bad.
With all your vast tuner wisdom you can't even confirm what kind of dyno was used?
It all seems so clear now.

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

If it's a mustang or load bearing dyno, then he'd probably be closer to 200whp on a dynojet. how is that a ricer excuse? if you dont know what you're talking about, then why talk? obviously you have no idea what a load bearing dyno means in relation to the common and more standard dynojet.

and power to weight ratio can't see 13's? he's making better power to weight numbers than a stock S2000. and they can do 13.7. so, once again, you're wrong.

i know a lot about cars and tuning, however, if i had my car dyno'd i'd have to ask whether it was mustang or dynojet, since they both use a roller. so does that mean I dont know what i'm talking about just because i can't differentiate between the two? no.

considering that you obviously are incorrect and have no knowledge behind any of the statements you made, it's pretty clear what your intent was. there is a difference between stirring the pot and actually having a legitimate basis for debate.

djslack

FYI you can do load bearing on a dynojet, it is an available attachment. On the 224 there is an eddy current loading accessory and on the 248 they have the Dynotrac controller unit to apply load via braking the drums.

That graph looks exactly like a graph from WinPEP (the Dynojet software) and nothing like the Mustang graphs I have seen.

Also, since the graphs are notated as "RO" (roll on) there is no indication of load testing being done. From all appearances this is a standard roll on Dynojet dyno pull without RPM signal inputs to gather torque data.

Just my 2c.

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

the most important factor is to be sure you use the same dyno every time. that way you have a fairly accurate baseline. for all we know, when his car was stock, he could have dyno'd at 120whp on this dyno and 130whp on another. hence the reason a baseline on this dyno would have been useful.

that said, if the shop says their dyno tends to read 10whp lower than other dynos, they would know, and there's no reason not to believe them. after all, they are the ones who know the nature of their equipment.

NAstage2

As has been said, I’m telling you what my nationally renowned tuner told me regarding HIS dyno. If you want to bother check out last months Honda tuning. They had a feature about him and his work on Do-It-Dyno's rebuilt d-series.

But he must be a ricer... with multiple 10 second cars, who is feeding me these excuses. Right? Riiiight.

A) You dont have a leg to stand on. 110WHP? Im sorry?
B) You have NO idea how much money I have spent.
C) Im making more power NA then you will see even on NITROUS.

You must be using that "new math" I’ve been hearing about, because what you said makes no sense.

First of all, this "theory" stated that to run low 15s@90MPH you needed a power to weight ratio of 15.xxlbs per 1 Hp. On top of that I was using BHP figures NOT WHP figures (in which I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and used a conservative 15% drive train loss figure when accounting for your WHP dyno graphs).

So you managed to somehow extrapolate from that information, what a 13 second car should have as far as power to weight?

LOL, OK. Lets use *real* math though.

Ill even state the WHP given by the low reading dyno. So let's see...

184WHP x 15% = 27.6
27.6 + 184 = 211.6BHP

2650lbs / 211.6BHP = 12.52lbs per Hp


So you claim you can run a 15.1@90MPH with a power to weight ratio of 17.2lbs. per Hp... Yet I can’t hit 13s with 12.5:1?

...with my 4.785 final drive and close ratio gearing.


ROFLMAO.


You should have known that a LOOOOONG time ago.

Reason being of course, that I dislike liars.

As I said, it’s a load bearing dyno. There was no confusion on that part, and in reality that’s the only variable in determining if a dyno will read low on a consistent basis (other then mechanical problems or environmental factors like altitude or temperature/humidity). The only time there was even a hint on confusion was my assuming that by his saying “load bearing” he meant mustang dyno since I was only familiar with that brand being of the load bearing type. As was posted above, dynojet happens to make them as well.

The only thing that has become clearer via this lame attempt at childish revenge is your idiocy.

NAstage2

BTW, said I said above we will find out for sure on the 20th @ The Dyno Shop, how low this dyno is reading my power.

We will also get torque figures and A/F ratio with engine speed measurments. im going to wager i hit 190WHP & change on their non load bearing dyno, with tq hanging somewhere around 140 wheel.

We will soon see if Im right...

...'till then, keep your uninformed and biased opinions to your self.

edit:

On an unrelated note, I’m really being held back by my stock intake manifold and throttle body. That’s where the bottleneck is. After I upgrade those for better flowing versions there is no doubt in my (or my tuner's) mind that I will see 200+WHP. On top of that I will actually be able to take advantage of the cam's power potential. Right now the intake mani is restricting how high up in the RPM band that the engine will make power. With a better flowing version with longer intake runners (Ill probably get a JG/Eddlebrock mani & 78mm TB) I will be able to make power up to and past 9000RPM.

Its also good to know that this isnt as far as I can go either. Other then a 3 way valve job I have a stock flowing head. With a proper PnP & better flowing valves I should be able to get upwards of 220WHP.

That will be soon to come, probably before the year's end. And at that point, I should be able to dip well into the mid 13s while still running 91 oktayne **** water gas and street tyres.

Redline04

iTrader: (3)

A) You dont have a leg to stand on. 110WHP? Im sorry?
85-95 degree weather and very humid in an asphalt parking lot when I dynoed. So Im sure on a cooler day I would have put down a few more HP. Also I lost 12hp in just 10min between dynos from heat soaked POS Aem V2 intake.
B) You have NO idea how much money I have spent.
Your right and I dont care, but I bet it was a lot more than what Ive spent to acheive practically the same results. All that money and still just as slow as me.
C) Im making more power NA then you will see even on NITROUS.
You may be making more power but I garauntee I am making a hell of a lot more torque. Besides just a 75pill away from your HP #'s.

2650lbs / 211.6BHP = 12.52lbs per Hp

Lets see
(conservitive)111whp +50=161
161x15%=24.15
185.15 BHP
2200lbs / 185.15 BHP =11.88
Combined with greater torque probally enough to offset your gearing. If only we lived nearby. Would be a close run in the 1/4.
The funny thing is my car is a SOHC non vtec economy engine vs your built/tuned,thousands invested, DOHC Vtec. Which brings me to my next point. Why are you even on this site? Does it make you feel better since this is the only place where your car is faster than 75% of the members and everywhere else your just considered slow? Did you get kicked off every other forum?

NAstage2

God, you really suck at using the internet, dont you?

Let’s see...

A) What filter on a stick you have makes NO difference. In fact the AEM V2 is probably on the better end of the intake spectrum making a whopping .2WHP more then the worst.

B) It doesnt matter what the temperature was. I was using this as an example when I said weather will affect the dyno results. The fact that you decided to assume I meant there would be a huge difference just lends credence to the fact that you don’t know what you are talking about.

C) Sitting on the asphalt on an 85* day is like sitting on a block of ice concerning the intake air temperature VS actually running the car on the road for 20 minutes.... on a 60* day.

LOL the irony of your using the term "ricer excuses" is becoming too great to bear at this point.

First of all, I never said your car was "slow" (at least not on the nitrous). I said you didn't run a 15.1@90MPH with just I/H/E and -200lbs. The fact that you are putting words into my mouth (and probably actually believe it as well) is pretty sad.

Secondly, you are trying to compare the fact that Ill be running high 13s ALL MOTOR with a FULL INTERIOR and STREET TIRES (read not drag radials) with the fact that you *might* at some point... with a larger nitrous shot... run low 14s with a completely gutted car... for only ~15 seconds at a time.

Do I really need to sit here and explain the difference between being that quick ALL the time, and a car that can only break out of the 15s with NITROUS?

Let me break it down for you. Sorry to burst your ricer bubble, but it needs to be done.

-Anyone can slap a bottle on a car and make it at least decently quick.

-You are only that "quick" for 15 seconds at a time.

-Your car is dog turd slow 99.998% of the time

-If your bottle isn’t properly warmed and at least 1/3 full you won’t be making anywhere neat its "rated" power.

-You WILL end up spending hundreds if not thousands on nitrous refills. What’s that about it being cheaper?

I already addressed most of this, but here goes a tad more.

I hate to break it to you, but I’ve dynoed multiple cars running nitrous. My car with the old B16A2 engine included. Kits ranging from NOS to NX to eddlebrock to ZEX. ALL have had problems making their "rated" Hp claims of 1WHP per "shot".

Once again you astound me with your awesome automotive knowledge.

I would also like to know what your definition of "a hell of a lot more torque" is? Even IF (and that’s a big if) you managed a true 1:1 ratio, you would only be making 10ft lbs more then me.

Take that into consideration along with the fact that your gearing SUCKS and mine is near perfect for my power curve... you still have jack **** to stand on as far as "facts". Also, my car pulls all the way to 9200RPM giving me a BUTTLOAD more room in each gear in whcih to run while you would be shifting 2x per each gear that I move up. Way to take all that into consideration Mr. ri...err...racer.

As for your "math", nice going. I suppose if the world was perfect that everyone got the 12WHP promised by AEM when they installed an intake you might be right. But as I have explained before your knowledge, math, and assumptions are flawed. Especially those of gearing. It needs to be said (because you don’t seem to be able to grasp the concept) that gearing is one of THE MOST important factors in how well a car accelerates. The fact that your gearing sucks like a Hoover can not be ignored or looked upon lightly as you seem to be doing.

Why don’t you go get a video of your car at a legitimate track running high 13 with that 50 shot of yours? Remember not to let your friend's epileptic girlfriend film the run too. Until then, you are just blowing hot air and further confirming that you don’t know WTF you are talking about.

See above. Unless you can match the power/speed ALL of the time, you need to step down because bottles are for babies unless the car can back it up Au' Natural.

What the hell, I'll give your retarded thought process a try...

[Redliar04]OMG! I ran a 13.8@102MPH with just an intake and a 65 wet shot when my car was otherwise stock! And the kit only cost me 300 bucks. And it was with a full interior and non slick type tires! You must really suck since you needed to spend hundreds more while gutting your car to beer can status to run .7 seconds slower in the 1.4 mile![/Redline04]

Actually I am a moderator on 2 different forums. First of all I’ve been here a lot longer then you. Secondly I came here by invite by a fellow member and local/personal friend who has since upgraded to an STi.

Geee. Yet one more thing you have no clue about, yet talk about like you actually do have a clue.

edit:

Cliffs Notes: I dont care what you have to say about my car. It doesnt change the fact that you arent going to pick up 10MPH and shave off 2 seconds from your ET/Trap speed by adding I/H/E and removing 200lbs.

The bottom line?
I never claimed my car was "fast". I dont expect to be owning any SRT-4s anytime soon.

Trying to compare a car thats gutted and (only when its) on nitrous, to a full interiored car thats NA is RETARDED and POINTLESS. *ESPECIALLY* when you are including "future" mods (OMG when i get like an 80 shot Ill totally be faster then joo, yo!).

I dont lie about my car or its times, unlike some people.

Nice try in avoiding the heat you have been getting about your obvious fibbing streak.


/end rant

NAstage2

BTW, as the final nail in your "dont know jack" coffin, you should be aware that you arent including power made UNDER THE CURVE. you know... where it COUNTS. Id LOVE to see your untuned POS motor, nitrous or not, match mine in that area.

Im going to go play battlefield2. Have fun sitting there for 45 minutes, trying to come up with some BS reply.

Redline04

iTrader: (3)

I guess you could say that, cause I'm not some loser who lives his life through the internet or video games. Rather be at the track learning to drive better or getting a peice of ***. I'm out there in the real world and when I say real world I mean the entire real world. I have been all over the world doing my job just so you can have the right to call me a liar and attack my character. It's just something I don't take likely. I'll admit you know more about cars then me(hope that makes you happy), but it's kinda hard to learn anything about cars when your sitting in the desert for 4-6months every year, exercises, training and finishing up my bachelors. You attacked me and insulted me and I just stooped to your level. So I hope you feel better. But I promise you this I have something called integrity and would not compromise that integrity over some BS car ****. So have a nice life. You win. You are the bigger internet/car geek/ nerd in general. Hope that gets you real far in life.

NAstage2

Actually the fact that I have gotten so far in life on my own merit has afforded me the opportunity to improve my self in other areas of life. E.g. I can enjoy my self.

Thanks for playing.

edit: damn, all the good servers are filled.

Michalo187

iTrader: (33)

Why don't you guys drive half and half find a track race eachother and settle this or drive half and half and kick eachothers *** this is starting to get extremely ridiculous

NAstage2

Because it’s not about how fast his car is now or how fat my car is ever. It’s about him claiming a 10MPH gain in trap speeds and 2 second drop in ETs by adding I/H/E and taking off 200 lbs.

What you suggest isn’t worth my time or gas. :