Suspension 101 warning:a little long.
11-07-2002
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Suspension 101 warning:a little long.
Suspension 101
Ok, I’ve been buzzing around this forum for a while now and have noticed a lot of misinformation and incorrect use of words being thrown around. So, I’m going to take a little time out of my busy day and Learn all you about some suspension.
1. Struts vs. Coilovers
Ok, this one just annoys me, to clarify STRUTS and COILOVERS are the same thing!!! How can this be you ask? Well Coilovers by definition is when the springs of your suspension are mounted around your shock absorbers. Have you looked at your struts lately? Well if you haven’t the spring is quite obviously mounted around the Shock absorber. When some one says that they are going to get coilovers smack them once and tell them they should get Adjustable coilovers!!!!! An example of a car with out coilovers look at the rear suspension of the Ford Focus, you’ll notice that the spring and the shock absorber are mounted in different places.
2. Springs and Shock absorbers, What are they and what do they do?
We’ll start with the easy one first, Springs. Ok so its not that easy, First what do spring do? That’s easy, they bounce! You may think that last line was a joke but alas it wasn’t. Springs do bounce, but they do so for a purpose. The springs absorb the impact of any bump on the road making your drive more comfortable. They also attempt to keep the car level in a turn. But don’t Shock absorbers absorb the impact of the road? Well yes and no. Contrary to their name Shock Absorbers actually absorb very little shock. What they actually do is counter the spring’s natural tendency to bounce as mentioned earlier. They do some other things as well, and I’ll get in to that later.
3. So what’s the advantage of getting springs and/or shock absorbers?
First, when you do finally decide to upgrade your suspension you have to decide What am I going to use my car for? Once you figure that out you can get a pretty good idea on what suspension changes you will want to get. So lets start out with springs first. Typically there are 2 types of performance springs (yes there are different variations of springs but I don’t want to get in to that now). First you have just plane old performance springs example, Neuspeed sport springs. Then there is the Adjustable spring example, Ground Control Adjustibles. The big difference between the two is that with adjustables you can change the ride height of your car. Now we get a little technical, Spring Rates? What the heck are spring rates? Spring rate is the speed / strength in which a spring will compress and decompress. What does that mean to me? Well this is where you need to know what you’re going to use your car for. Higher spring rates will Increase roll resistance and Ride harshness and if you go to hard your tires may not follow bumps in the road causing reduced traction. So why would some one want to put sport springs on their car if it’s going to increase ride harshness and may make them loose traction? Well if you go to sport springs you probably don’t care much about ride quality, as far as the spring rate being to hard, you wont run in to that unless you have Racing springs. The advantage that you gain from harder springs is in the reduced body roll. By reducing the body roll you increase the contact patch of your tires on to the ground, thus giving you more traction.
Now on to Shocks. The shock absorbers primary job is to stop the spring from bouncing. On nonperformance shocks, the bump and rebound rates are set low. This allows the spring to bounce and absorb a lot of impacts, look at a Cadillac and you will see a lot of wheel travel as well as a bit of “bounce” as the car traverses the street. Compare that to a borne sports car where the Bump and rebound rates are set high, that car will bounce very little. So what does that mean to us? Well first if you upgrade your springs you will probably want to upgrade your Shocks. The reason for this is you want your Spring rate to be matched to your Bump and Rebound rates. Example: If you have stronger springs then the shock absorber will have to work harder In order to counter the spring wanting to bounce. That’s why you will eventually blow your stock shocks if you put performance/lowering springs on. Also, performance shock absorbers are typically adjustable. This allows you to “tune” your suspension by adjusting the bump and rebound rates. I could go in to how bump and rebound affect handling but that would take too long. If you want more info on tuning your suspension go hereSuspension tuning
4. Antiroll bars. Not sway bars not roll bars but ANTIroll bars!!!
The role of antiroll bars is much the same as springs. They are there to lessen body roll. Hence the name. By increasing or decreasing the front and rear roll rates of the antiroll bar you can fine tune you cars handling. There is more to the antiroll bar but I don’t really want to get in to that. See the above link for more info.
Well I’m done ranting, so now you know. There is much more to suspension tuning than listed here but these are the basics. I could rant on how important a good set of tires are to handling, in fact with out a good set of tires all of the above is pretty much pointless, but my fingers are tired and I want to go home. So from now on DON’T say I’m getting coilovers, Because you already have them.
Ok, I’ve been buzzing around this forum for a while now and have noticed a lot of misinformation and incorrect use of words being thrown around. So, I’m going to take a little time out of my busy day and Learn all you about some suspension.
1. Struts vs. Coilovers
Ok, this one just annoys me, to clarify STRUTS and COILOVERS are the same thing!!! How can this be you ask? Well Coilovers by definition is when the springs of your suspension are mounted around your shock absorbers. Have you looked at your struts lately? Well if you haven’t the spring is quite obviously mounted around the Shock absorber. When some one says that they are going to get coilovers smack them once and tell them they should get Adjustable coilovers!!!!! An example of a car with out coilovers look at the rear suspension of the Ford Focus, you’ll notice that the spring and the shock absorber are mounted in different places.
2. Springs and Shock absorbers, What are they and what do they do?
We’ll start with the easy one first, Springs. Ok so its not that easy, First what do spring do? That’s easy, they bounce! You may think that last line was a joke but alas it wasn’t. Springs do bounce, but they do so for a purpose. The springs absorb the impact of any bump on the road making your drive more comfortable. They also attempt to keep the car level in a turn. But don’t Shock absorbers absorb the impact of the road? Well yes and no. Contrary to their name Shock Absorbers actually absorb very little shock. What they actually do is counter the spring’s natural tendency to bounce as mentioned earlier. They do some other things as well, and I’ll get in to that later.
3. So what’s the advantage of getting springs and/or shock absorbers?
First, when you do finally decide to upgrade your suspension you have to decide What am I going to use my car for? Once you figure that out you can get a pretty good idea on what suspension changes you will want to get. So lets start out with springs first. Typically there are 2 types of performance springs (yes there are different variations of springs but I don’t want to get in to that now). First you have just plane old performance springs example, Neuspeed sport springs. Then there is the Adjustable spring example, Ground Control Adjustibles. The big difference between the two is that with adjustables you can change the ride height of your car. Now we get a little technical, Spring Rates? What the heck are spring rates? Spring rate is the speed / strength in which a spring will compress and decompress. What does that mean to me? Well this is where you need to know what you’re going to use your car for. Higher spring rates will Increase roll resistance and Ride harshness and if you go to hard your tires may not follow bumps in the road causing reduced traction. So why would some one want to put sport springs on their car if it’s going to increase ride harshness and may make them loose traction? Well if you go to sport springs you probably don’t care much about ride quality, as far as the spring rate being to hard, you wont run in to that unless you have Racing springs. The advantage that you gain from harder springs is in the reduced body roll. By reducing the body roll you increase the contact patch of your tires on to the ground, thus giving you more traction.
Now on to Shocks. The shock absorbers primary job is to stop the spring from bouncing. On nonperformance shocks, the bump and rebound rates are set low. This allows the spring to bounce and absorb a lot of impacts, look at a Cadillac and you will see a lot of wheel travel as well as a bit of “bounce” as the car traverses the street. Compare that to a borne sports car where the Bump and rebound rates are set high, that car will bounce very little. So what does that mean to us? Well first if you upgrade your springs you will probably want to upgrade your Shocks. The reason for this is you want your Spring rate to be matched to your Bump and Rebound rates. Example: If you have stronger springs then the shock absorber will have to work harder In order to counter the spring wanting to bounce. That’s why you will eventually blow your stock shocks if you put performance/lowering springs on. Also, performance shock absorbers are typically adjustable. This allows you to “tune” your suspension by adjusting the bump and rebound rates. I could go in to how bump and rebound affect handling but that would take too long. If you want more info on tuning your suspension go hereSuspension tuning
4. Antiroll bars. Not sway bars not roll bars but ANTIroll bars!!!
The role of antiroll bars is much the same as springs. They are there to lessen body roll. Hence the name. By increasing or decreasing the front and rear roll rates of the antiroll bar you can fine tune you cars handling. There is more to the antiroll bar but I don’t really want to get in to that. See the above link for more info.
Well I’m done ranting, so now you know. There is much more to suspension tuning than listed here but these are the basics. I could rant on how important a good set of tires are to handling, in fact with out a good set of tires all of the above is pretty much pointless, but my fingers are tired and I want to go home. So from now on DON’T say I’m getting coilovers, Because you already have them.
11-15-2002
#4
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Rep Power: 393 1) alright if you want to get picky STRUT and COILOVER arent the same thing. a strut is the shock, a coilover is the type of suspension we have. a strut is part of the coilover suspension. but yes your definition of "coilover" is correct, its when the spring is mounted around the shock. and when someone says they're getting teins or B&G, they are still getting coilovers. they're just height/damper adjustable. why be picky tho? you know what someone means when they say that they have coilovers. it usually means the adjustable kind. its the common "lingo". 99.9% of people use the term coilovers for stuff like ground control, tein, jic, and not the actual suspension we have so why not just call them coilovers(since they are). what i'm basically saying is, when people say their getting coilovers, it usually means the adjustable kind, so lets just stop being picky and use it that way...
2) not really.. shocks are what mainly absorbs the impact, not springs. think about it, you have no shocks, only springs on the car.... your going to feel ALOT of the impact. why? because springs dont absorb it. now say you have no springs but only shocks(ya its kind hard to imagine but just try to imagine the shocks holding the cars weight without compressing). you hit a bump and boom, the shocks compress and then slowly rebound, thus absorbing the shock. they both go hand in hand and you wouldnt have a comfortable ride without either one but shocks are what mainly aborbs impact. springs mainly just keep the car level at a certain height.
3) two type of springs are linear and progressive, not spring and adjustable springs. sleeved coilovers like ground control still uses springs. but what seperates lowering springs vs sleeved coilovers is that they come with an adjustable lower perch. coilovers still use linear/progressive springs tho. spring rates... ya your right... stiffer the springs, less body roll, harsher ride. softer springs, more body roll more comfortable ride. what are spring rates tho... spring rates are measured in lbs. its how much weight you need to put on top of the spring in order to compress it 1". for example if a spring's spring rate is 300lbs, you need to put 300lbs ontop of the spring in order to compress it 1". this is true for linear springs. you put 600lb and you compress it 2". with progressive springs its different. the spring rate changes depending on how much its compressed. you put 300lbs it might lower 1" but when you put 600lbs it'll only lower 1.5". this is cause its not linear, but more on a curve...
man i'm tired as hell, i'll continue this some other time.
2) not really.. shocks are what mainly absorbs the impact, not springs. think about it, you have no shocks, only springs on the car.... your going to feel ALOT of the impact. why? because springs dont absorb it. now say you have no springs but only shocks(ya its kind hard to imagine but just try to imagine the shocks holding the cars weight without compressing). you hit a bump and boom, the shocks compress and then slowly rebound, thus absorbing the shock. they both go hand in hand and you wouldnt have a comfortable ride without either one but shocks are what mainly aborbs impact. springs mainly just keep the car level at a certain height.
3) two type of springs are linear and progressive, not spring and adjustable springs. sleeved coilovers like ground control still uses springs. but what seperates lowering springs vs sleeved coilovers is that they come with an adjustable lower perch. coilovers still use linear/progressive springs tho. spring rates... ya your right... stiffer the springs, less body roll, harsher ride. softer springs, more body roll more comfortable ride. what are spring rates tho... spring rates are measured in lbs. its how much weight you need to put on top of the spring in order to compress it 1". for example if a spring's spring rate is 300lbs, you need to put 300lbs ontop of the spring in order to compress it 1". this is true for linear springs. you put 600lb and you compress it 2". with progressive springs its different. the spring rate changes depending on how much its compressed. you put 300lbs it might lower 1" but when you put 600lbs it'll only lower 1.5". this is cause its not linear, but more on a curve...
man i'm tired as hell, i'll continue this some other time.
11-15-2002
#5
Autocross Junky
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Rep Power: 356 Ya, I was a bit ranty with the struts and coilover thing.
I disagree with you about springs and shocks though.
To quote High-performance Handeling Handbook by Don Alexander, published by MBI Books 2002.
"Shocks don't actually absorb shocks, but rather they dampen vibrations. Shocks are often called dampers for that reason. the shock is designed to control movements of the suspension, working in conjunction with the springs. The springs actually absorb shocks over bumps and control body roll. The shocks control the oscillations of the springs, determining how fast the springs moves up and down."
Thanks for clearing up the types of springs, thats true the 2 types are linear and progressive. adjustible and non adjustible is more of an option, they could have the same spring on them but Adjustibles would give you just that, Adjustibility.
I disagree with you about springs and shocks though.
To quote High-performance Handeling Handbook by Don Alexander, published by MBI Books 2002.
"Shocks don't actually absorb shocks, but rather they dampen vibrations. Shocks are often called dampers for that reason. the shock is designed to control movements of the suspension, working in conjunction with the springs. The springs actually absorb shocks over bumps and control body roll. The shocks control the oscillations of the springs, determining how fast the springs moves up and down."
Thanks for clearing up the types of springs, thats true the 2 types are linear and progressive. adjustible and non adjustible is more of an option, they could have the same spring on them but Adjustibles would give you just that, Adjustibility.
11-15-2002
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Zzyzx
Suspension 101
Ok, I’ve been buzzing around this forum for a while now and have noticed a lot of misinformation and incorrect use of words being thrown around. So, I’m going to take a little time out of my busy day and Learn all you about some suspension.
1. Struts vs. Coilovers
Ok, this one just annoys me, to clarify STRUTS and COILOVERS are the same thing!!! How can this be you ask? Well Coilovers by definition is when the springs of your suspension are mounted around your shock absorbers. Have you looked at your struts lately? Well if you haven’t the spring is quite obviously mounted around the Shock absorber. When some one says that they are going to get coilovers smack them once and tell them they should get Adjustable coilovers!!!!! An example of a car with out coilovers look at the rear suspension of the Ford Focus, you’ll notice that the spring and the shock absorber are mounted in different places.
2. Springs and Shock absorbers, What are they and what do they do?
We’ll start with the easy one first, Springs. Ok so its not that easy, First what do spring do? That’s easy, they bounce! You may think that last line was a joke but alas it wasn’t. Springs do bounce, but they do so for a purpose. The springs absorb the impact of any bump on the road making your drive more comfortable. They also attempt to keep the car level in a turn. But don’t Shock absorbers absorb the impact of the road? Well yes and no. Contrary to their name Shock Absorbers actually absorb very little shock. What they actually do is counter the spring’s natural tendency to bounce as mentioned earlier. They do some other things as well, and I’ll get in to that later.
3. So what’s the advantage of getting springs and/or shock absorbers?
First, when you do finally decide to upgrade your suspension you have to decide What am I going to use my car for? Once you figure that out you can get a pretty good idea on what suspension changes you will want to get. So lets start out with springs first. Typically there are 2 types of performance springs (yes there are different variations of springs but I don’t want to get in to that now). First you have just plane old performance springs example, Neuspeed sport springs. Then there is the Adjustable spring example, Ground Control Adjustibles. The big difference between the two is that with adjustables you can change the ride height of your car. Now we get a little technical, Spring Rates? What the heck are spring rates? Spring rate is the speed / strength in which a spring will compress and decompress. What does that mean to me? Well this is where you need to know what you’re going to use your car for. Higher spring rates will Increase roll resistance and Ride harshness and if you go to hard your tires may not follow bumps in the road causing reduced traction. So why would some one want to put sport springs on their car if it’s going to increase ride harshness and may make them loose traction? Well if you go to sport springs you probably don’t care much about ride quality, as far as the spring rate being to hard, you wont run in to that unless you have Racing springs. The advantage that you gain from harder springs is in the reduced body roll. By reducing the body roll you increase the contact patch of your tires on to the ground, thus giving you more traction.
Now on to Shocks. The shock absorbers primary job is to stop the spring from bouncing. On nonperformance shocks, the bump and rebound rates are set low. This allows the spring to bounce and absorb a lot of impacts, look at a Cadillac and you will see a lot of wheel travel as well as a bit of “bounce” as the car traverses the street. Compare that to a borne sports car where the Bump and rebound rates are set high, that car will bounce very little. So what does that mean to us? Well first if you upgrade your springs you will probably want to upgrade your Shocks. The reason for this is you want your Spring rate to be matched to your Bump and Rebound rates. Example: If you have stronger springs then the shock absorber will have to work harder In order to counter the spring wanting to bounce. That’s why you will eventually blow your stock shocks if you put performance/lowering springs on. Also, performance shock absorbers are typically adjustable. This allows you to “tune” your suspension by adjusting the bump and rebound rates. I could go in to how bump and rebound affect handling but that would take too long. If you want more info on tuning your suspension go hereSuspension tuning
4. Antiroll bars. Not sway bars not roll bars but ANTIroll bars!!!
The role of antiroll bars is much the same as springs. They are there to lessen body roll. Hence the name. By increasing or decreasing the front and rear roll rates of the antiroll bar you can fine tune you cars handling. There is more to the antiroll bar but I don’t really want to get in to that. See the above link for more info.
Well I’m done ranting, so now you know. There is much more to suspension tuning than listed here but these are the basics. I could rant on how important a good set of tires are to handling, in fact with out a good set of tires all of the above is pretty much pointless, but my fingers are tired and I want to go home. So from now on DON’T say I’m getting coilovers, Because you already have them.
[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Zzyzx
Suspension 101
Ok, I’ve been buzzing around this forum for a while now and have noticed a lot of misinformation and incorrect use of words being thrown around. So, I’m going to take a little time out of my busy day and Learn all you about some suspension.
1. Struts vs. Coilovers
Ok, this one just annoys me, to clarify STRUTS and COILOVERS are the same thing!!! How can this be you ask? Well Coilovers by definition is when the springs of your suspension are mounted around your shock absorbers. Have you looked at your struts lately? Well if you haven’t the spring is quite obviously mounted around the Shock absorber. When some one says that they are going to get coilovers smack them once and tell them they should get Adjustable coilovers!!!!! An example of a car with out coilovers look at the rear suspension of the Ford Focus, you’ll notice that the spring and the shock absorber are mounted in different places.
2. Springs and Shock absorbers, What are they and what do they do?
We’ll start with the easy one first, Springs. Ok so its not that easy, First what do spring do? That’s easy, they bounce! You may think that last line was a joke but alas it wasn’t. Springs do bounce, but they do so for a purpose. The springs absorb the impact of any bump on the road making your drive more comfortable. They also attempt to keep the car level in a turn. But don’t Shock absorbers absorb the impact of the road? Well yes and no. Contrary to their name Shock Absorbers actually absorb very little shock. What they actually do is counter the spring’s natural tendency to bounce as mentioned earlier. They do some other things as well, and I’ll get in to that later.
3. So what’s the advantage of getting springs and/or shock absorbers?
First, when you do finally decide to upgrade your suspension you have to decide What am I going to use my car for? Once you figure that out you can get a pretty good idea on what suspension changes you will want to get. So lets start out with springs first. Typically there are 2 types of performance springs (yes there are different variations of springs but I don’t want to get in to that now). First you have just plane old performance springs example, Neuspeed sport springs. Then there is the Adjustable spring example, Ground Control Adjustibles. The big difference between the two is that with adjustables you can change the ride height of your car. Now we get a little technical, Spring Rates? What the heck are spring rates? Spring rate is the speed / strength in which a spring will compress and decompress. What does that mean to me? Well this is where you need to know what you’re going to use your car for. Higher spring rates will Increase roll resistance and Ride harshness and if you go to hard your tires may not follow bumps in the road causing reduced traction. So why would some one want to put sport springs on their car if it’s going to increase ride harshness and may make them loose traction? Well if you go to sport springs you probably don’t care much about ride quality, as far as the spring rate being to hard, you wont run in to that unless you have Racing springs. The advantage that you gain from harder springs is in the reduced body roll. By reducing the body roll you increase the contact patch of your tires on to the ground, thus giving you more traction.
Now on to Shocks. The shock absorbers primary job is to stop the spring from bouncing. On nonperformance shocks, the bump and rebound rates are set low. This allows the spring to bounce and absorb a lot of impacts, look at a Cadillac and you will see a lot of wheel travel as well as a bit of “bounce” as the car traverses the street. Compare that to a borne sports car where the Bump and rebound rates are set high, that car will bounce very little. So what does that mean to us? Well first if you upgrade your springs you will probably want to upgrade your Shocks. The reason for this is you want your Spring rate to be matched to your Bump and Rebound rates. Example: If you have stronger springs then the shock absorber will have to work harder In order to counter the spring wanting to bounce. That’s why you will eventually blow your stock shocks if you put performance/lowering springs on. Also, performance shock absorbers are typically adjustable. This allows you to “tune” your suspension by adjusting the bump and rebound rates. I could go in to how bump and rebound affect handling but that would take too long. If you want more info on tuning your suspension go hereSuspension tuning
4. Antiroll bars. Not sway bars not roll bars but ANTIroll bars!!!
The role of antiroll bars is much the same as springs. They are there to lessen body roll. Hence the name. By increasing or decreasing the front and rear roll rates of the antiroll bar you can fine tune you cars handling. There is more to the antiroll bar but I don’t really want to get in to that. See the above link for more info.
Well I’m done ranting, so now you know. There is much more to suspension tuning than listed here but these are the basics. I could rant on how important a good set of tires are to handling, in fact with out a good set of tires all of the above is pretty much pointless, but my fingers are tired and I want to go home. So from now on DON’T say I’m getting coilovers, Because you already have them.
[hr]
Hmm. There are some minor fallacies in here, but I can't pick them out right now.. "*working*"
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