itr rear sway
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itr rear sway
I'm thinking of making the ITR rear sway bar my next suspension mod (I currently have no rear bar and a 25.4mm front). I have an 04 VP, so I kinda have to experiment with what bar is best. This isn't for racing, just for fun on the street. Any opinions?
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i do'nt suggest getting a 22mm rear bar if you don't plan on racing. It can get you in trouble. How do you have a 25.4mm. Did you swap? You will need to drill holes and get a mounting kit. But it is your car.
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Originally Posted by robbclark1
i do'nt suggest getting a 22mm rear bar if you don't plan on racing. It can get you in trouble. How do you have a 25.4mm. Did you swap? You will need to drill holes and get a mounting kit. But it is your car.
I got the sway off of ebay, its the OEM 01 sway bar. I figured that with it up front that the RSX bar would be kind of useless, so I was thinking of the ITR bar. I was going to get the progress adapter kit with the integrated tie bar.
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Rep Power: 424 Oh for the love of god don't put a 22mm rear bar on with a stock suspension.
Unless you've got something really stiff, there's not much need for a bar that big, especially on the street, its just going to scream for oversteer, not to mention busted endlinks.
Unless you've got something really stiff, there's not much need for a bar that big, especially on the street, its just going to scream for oversteer, not to mention busted endlinks.
Originally Posted by acjones21
I got the sway off of ebay, its the OEM 01 sway bar. I figured that with it up front that the RSX bar would be kind of useless, so I was thinking of the ITR bar.
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Rep Power: 0 Actually I've been running the 25.4mm bar up front and 22mm rear bar on my daily driven car for a while now and have no complaints. It doesn't "scream oversteer" nor have I busted any endlinks.
You'll need the adapter kit, but I say do it. BTW, I picked up my 22mm Comptech bar on Ebay for $93 Shipped
You'll need the adapter kit, but I say do it. BTW, I picked up my 22mm Comptech bar on Ebay for $93 Shipped
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Rep Power: 380 We tend to forget that most people don't drive any where near the cars limits.... and thus, they can run what could be considered an oversteer causing setup with out any problems. However, take that setup out on a track, drive it 10/10ths, and you'll find that FWD really can drift...
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Rep Power: 0 Also don't forget that some of us are used to driving rwd. In my case, the slight oversteer at the limit caused by the setup in my civic is nowhere near as dramatic as in my 240sx.
I, like many people in my circle prefer a car that tends to oversteer, rather than a car that understeers. It is much easier for me to correct a loss of traction from the rear than it is from the front.
I, like many people in my circle prefer a car that tends to oversteer, rather than a car that understeers. It is much easier for me to correct a loss of traction from the rear than it is from the front.
Originally Posted by Zzyzx
We tend to forget that most people don't drive any where near the cars limits.... and thus, they can run what could be considered an oversteer causing setup with out any problems. However, take that setup out on a track, drive it 10/10ths, and you'll find that FWD really can drift...
But then again, I've also drifted in my car ...
... with help of a F150 merging into my lane, and both of us going 75 mph on the freeway. Not quite the funnest experience I've ever had ...
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Originally Posted by kornsined
i think the rsx 19mm is sufficient enough for street applications. if your not gonna push it to notice the oversteer then it's pointless.
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Rep Power: 380 PlasmaGT, I'm like you. I enjoy a car that tends to oversteer at its limits, but I think Robbclark and Boilermakers reasoning behind not recomending a 22mm rear bar for general street us is because most people arnt really comfortable with oversteer. so for some one to tune the car to oversteer at or near its limits my not be the safest thing to do.
To Quote a Post I made on ClubRSX
To Quote a Post I made on ClubRSX
The thing people tend to not understand is that as you tune the car to the bleeding edge of handling the more unstable and unforgiving the car will be to your mistakes. For example its the differnece between you making a mistake coming in to a turn and the car understeering untill it scrubs off enough speed to allow the car to start turning again, and you making a mistake coming in to a turn and the dam thing sending you for a loop and you end up faceing the wrong way on the highway, or worse finding your self in the bushes.
but any way, when your driving the car, an oversteer prone car can be dealt with, and you shouldnt have any problems unless you screwup. BUT, its the emergency situations where you have to momentarily drive the car at 11/10ths is where an oversteer prone car is going to bite you on the ***. This is why with my autocross preped civic, I dont really speed on the street, I may take turns faster then most, (6-7/10ths at the most). BUt theres allways a little more in my car that I can use if needed. This is also one of the reasons I dont recomend an oversteer prone setup to people who only drive on the street.
but any way, when your driving the car, an oversteer prone car can be dealt with, and you shouldnt have any problems unless you screwup. BUT, its the emergency situations where you have to momentarily drive the car at 11/10ths is where an oversteer prone car is going to bite you on the ***. This is why with my autocross preped civic, I dont really speed on the street, I may take turns faster then most, (6-7/10ths at the most). BUt theres allways a little more in my car that I can use if needed. This is also one of the reasons I dont recomend an oversteer prone setup to people who only drive on the street.
Originally Posted by PlasmaGT
The point of a larger anti-sway bar is not to notice oversteer.
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Originally Posted by Zzyzx
PlasmaGT, I'm like you. I enjoy a car that tends to oversteer at its limits, but I think Robbclark and Boilermakers reasoning behind not recomending a 22mm rear bar for general street us is because most people arnt really comfortable with oversteer. so for some one to tune the car to oversteer at or near its limits my not be the safest thing to do.
To Quote a Post I made on ClubRSX
To Quote a Post I made on ClubRSX
Most cars that I've owned prior to the civic could easily be coerced into loosing traction rounding a corner. On an otherwise stock civic suspension, this won't be a daily occurence.
I guess I am sort of confused because I have the H+R 20 mm rear sway bar. With the 04 (smaller) stock front sway bar. I would think that if his ITR 22mm with a 25mm on the front would be oversteer crazy than mine would be worse. Mine is not that bad although I don't have the stock suspension. It is stiff as hell I dred hitting bumps. So in that sense if you are not going to race I don't see the point in giving up the ride quality
Last edited by bgoetz; Apr 6, 2005 at 08:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by PlasmaGT
I see what you're saying. The setup that the thread starter is talking about is still pretty mild compared to many rwd production vehicles. It will take a lot of body-roll away, but it won't be drifting around corners during daily driving.
Most cars that I've owned prior to the civic could easily be coerced into loosing traction rounding a corner. On an otherwise stock civic suspension, this won't be a daily occurence.
Most cars that I've owned prior to the civic could easily be coerced into loosing traction rounding a corner. On an otherwise stock civic suspension, this won't be a daily occurence.
I have the 22mm ITR bar installed with tokicos and h&r springs. I have the thicker stock front sway bar (25.4mm). Under normal driving conditions there is less body roll making the ride actually feel more comfortable especially in corners. The car feels pretty close to neutral as in the oversteer is not what one might suspect. Endlinks are fine aswell.
Originally Posted by kornsined
what are the 04's running up front? 15mm?
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Rep Power: 0 I've got 27mm front and 22mm rear and it has just a bit of understeer at the limit, but it's close to being neutral. 25/22 combo probably won't be dangerously *** happy but when skillz < situation i guess it could be bad. As for broken endlinks i think the progress set up is the only design that's had that problem. I say go for it man
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Rep Power: 380 ^^ Depends on what you are going for... Me, I acually downsized my front bar from the 01's 25.4mm to an 03+ 15.9mm. Pro = Less understeer, More corner exit grip(Less in side wheel spin) Con = Increase in body roll
Originally Posted by bgoetz
I guess I am sort of confused because I have the H+R 20 mm rear sway bar. With the 04 (smaller) stock front sway bar. I would think that if his ITR 22mm with a 25mm on the front would be oversteer crazy than mine would be worse. Mine is not that bad although I don't have the stock suspension. It is stiff as hell I dred hitting bumps. So in that sense if you are not going to race I don't see the point in giving up the ride quality
Originally Posted by bgoetz
Ok just took off some - camber in the back. Took a corner to fast and ended up drifting down the road. Scared the **** out of me
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Rep Power: 0 I'm the original poster that everyone thinks is an idiot. I understand sway bar dynamics, and I am not going for a strictly "bigger is better" approach. My ultimate goal for the car is to have a very "sporting" street car. I got the 25mm bar to decrease body roll in the front, and I wanted a bar in the back to further decrease body roll and to decrease the understeer that I am getting now. I figured since I am running such a big bar up front, I might as well run a big one in the back to balance it out. My last vehicle was a 2 door RWD blazer with the biggest swaybars that chevy made (from the factory) and I had NO trouble getting around corners in that thing. Graduating to the civic was actually dissapointing until I got the front sway.
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Rep Power: 380 ^^ stop paying attention to Body roll, as body roll or the lack there of is not a good indication of a well or poorly handling car... Handling wise it only does 2 things, 1. it annoys the driver (Learn to ignor it) and 2. it causes a bit of camber loss. (Compensate by running more negitive camber)
and who called you an Idiot?
any way, for anti-rollbars... Its not a matter of size, its a matter of balance. But I can say, that by simply upsizing the front bar only (As you originally did) you did a couple things to your cars handling. Pro: 1. Decreased Body roll 2. Increased corner entry responsivness. Con: 1. Increased understeer at the cars limits 2. Increased the Likelyhood of having inside wheel spin on corner exits. Esentially you've made the car handle worse at its limits but "Feel" Better, thanks to the reduced body roll. Now that you allready have that larger front bar, getting a larger rear bar will help reduce some of that understeer, be it a 19, 21 or 22mm bar.
What the discussoin here was, Is it safe to recomend a setup that may cause the car to oversteer at its limits, In low grip situations (Rain/snow/ect) and emergency situations to some one who may or may not have any experance dealing with a tail happy car.
and who called you an Idiot?
any way, for anti-rollbars... Its not a matter of size, its a matter of balance. But I can say, that by simply upsizing the front bar only (As you originally did) you did a couple things to your cars handling. Pro: 1. Decreased Body roll 2. Increased corner entry responsivness. Con: 1. Increased understeer at the cars limits 2. Increased the Likelyhood of having inside wheel spin on corner exits. Esentially you've made the car handle worse at its limits but "Feel" Better, thanks to the reduced body roll. Now that you allready have that larger front bar, getting a larger rear bar will help reduce some of that understeer, be it a 19, 21 or 22mm bar.
What the discussoin here was, Is it safe to recomend a setup that may cause the car to oversteer at its limits, In low grip situations (Rain/snow/ect) and emergency situations to some one who may or may not have any experance dealing with a tail happy car.
Last edited by Zzyzx; Apr 8, 2005 at 10:32 AM.
