Lowering Springs OR Coilovers????????
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Se7enCyrus Racing/Motorsports
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Lowering Springs OR Coilovers????????
So, i want to lower car, but ive heard that coilovers are better then just lowering springs. Whats the diff?? Adv/disadv??? Take into consideration that im also going to swap engine later.
Superior Evolutionary Element Destined-factor
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Rep Power: 0 well yeah. if you got springs and wanted to raise the car you'd have to take off your entire shock/strut assebly to do that. my buddy does that with his integra, he gets a shop to do it though. my other buddy with GC coilovers just adjusts the height himself in his garage. saves money and time to get coilovers or a kit(shocks and coilovers).
Registered!!
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Most after market springs are progressive, which means theyre soft until you really push them. Most coil overs are linear, which means the spring rate is basically the same throughout its compression.
If you dont see the need to change your ride height very often, springs will do nicely. Remember that you should get an alignment done whenever you change your ride height.
If you dont see the need to change your ride height very often, springs will do nicely. Remember that you should get an alignment done whenever you change your ride height.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 Don't get anything until you swap the engine...if you do get something that you can swap the springs out easily because you are going to need it.
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/fa...s#faq_susp_faq
Suspension Tuning 101
1) What do you want to do with your car?
2) Vehicle Dynamics
4) Camber/Caster/Toe
3) Parts
1) What do you want to do with your car?
It may be a simple question, but you have yourself this question before you start modifying your suspension. Do you just want to lower for show points, or do you want some serious suspension modifications so you can compete nationally? Before you slap on a performance suspension part, think about what it does and how it will allow you to move your car better. Sit back and think about it while you read up on suspension tuning.
2) Vehicle Dynamics
Here is a link to Mike Kojima’s Nissan Sentra handling page. He has been fine-tuning Nissans for years and has god-like status, so he knows his stuff. Now some of this applies only to Sentras but he has a lot of general information on here so read it all!
Mike Kojima's Suspension Tuning page
Another good page
Suspension Tuning 101 Thread by Zzyzx for more info!
To get the maximum performance out of your car you have to first understand vehicle dynamics. Basically Vehicle dynamics are all of the things that affect the way your car handles, such as accelerating, braking, turning and various road surfaces and conditions. Most of this deals with weight transfer. When you accelerate, weight is transferred to the back, when you brake, weight goes to the front. And when you turn weight is transferred to the outside of the corner. The rest deals with your suspensions ability to keep the tires firmly planted on the ground and keeping the tire contact patch as large as possible.
a. Weight
From every thing I’ve read, been told or seen work, how well a car handles is all about how well that car handles weight; as in where the weight is located in the car, where that weight gets transferred during cornering and how fast it gets transferred. Every thing you do to your car be it springs, shocks, or what not affects how the car handles its weight. Why is Weight so important to handling? Well that deals directly to how a tire makes traction. It’s a simple concept: the more weight on a tire, the more traction it will make. But this simple concept has a twist, and it goes: the amount of traction gained by increasing load decreases as more load gets placed on the tire. Meaning a tire with 100 lbs place on it will make 100lbs of traction, but a tire with 200 lbs on it will only make 180Lbs of traction a 10% loss. (This is an exaggeration but you get the idea). This concept of Diminishing returns brings up 2 truths.
1. A lighter car is inherently more maneuverable then a heavy car.
2. Weight transfer is bad for handling.
The first one is easy to explain. We’ll use our overly exaggerated tires as examples and put them on 2 cars. Car A weighs 400LBS evenly distributed between all 4 tires, car B weighs 800LBS also evenly distributed between all 4 tires. So using the tire above, car A will be producing 800LBS of traction where car B will be making 1520LBS of traction. What this means is that although car B is making more traction, Car A is making proportionately more traction Vs its weight. (Car A is making 200% traction Vs. Weight, were car B is making 190% traction Vs. weight).
The second truth is a bit more complex. We will use Car B as our example here. Car B is making 1520 LBS of traction when it’s not cornering. When the car turns, weight gets transferred from the inside tires to the outside tires, so lets say 100 LBS came off of each inside tire. Now the 2 outside tires have 300LBS on them each, were the inside tires only have 100 lbs each. With 300lbs on the out side tires they are making 510lbs of traction a 30% loss (1020 total LBS) and the inside tires are making 200 LBS each (400 LBS) so now the total traction being made is only 1420 LBS Vs the 1520Lbs it was making before it turned. This is overly exaggerated for clarity, but the concept remains.
So with these truths comes the reasoning that getting rid of weight and stopping weight transfer is a good thing.
b. Traction
Ok you now know how weight affects traction, but what exactly is “traction”. Traction is the tires ability to grip the road, and a tire only has so much traction. Tires make traction though friction between the rubber molecules at the tire contact patch and the road surface. And as discussed before, traction increases as vertical load on the tire increases, which is why aerodynamic down force works so well. Lastly, a tire will make more traction if the entire contact patch is equally loaded. There are 5 characteristics that affect traction. 1. Basic tire design and construction. 2. Sidewall rigidity. 3. Tread rubber compound. 4. Tread design. And 5. Tire size. Of these characteristics we only have a choice of Tire size, compound and Tread design. We can also control the tires pressure, camber, toe in/out and camber change [Camber Change is the number of degrees of camber that wheels lose or gain from static (down the straightaway) to dynamic (in the middle of the turns) chassis attitude.]
Mike Kojima's page has a large chart demonstrating what happens when you change certain parts and settings!!! Read it carefully.
3) Camber/Caster/Toe
Camber, caster, and toe are all changes to the way your wheels and tires come in contact with the ground. Most factory cars have some negative camber in the rear set. Most owners’ manuals will tell you OEM specs of camber, caster and toe. These settings can become moved by driving, hit potholes, racing, etc. This is why you get an alignment every so often. Alignment shops will return your car to factory or near factory settings.
They affect vehicle dynamics greatly if fine-tuned. Each car is different so you will have to play with the sittings to get the desired results. General rule of thumb is that some negative camber and some toe out will help handling, but the amounts will vary. So please don’t think that leaving your tires at –2 degrees camber all the time will help you! By changing the camber, caster and toe, you WILL ruin your tires faster. They take more stress and take the corners harder so it is suggested that you don’t run with “race” settings on the street if you can prevent it. You will be buying tires every month. Parts like Camber or caster plates allow for quick changing of the camber or caster for race days.
Links
http://www.artsautomotive.com/thealignmentstory.htm
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
http://corvettesuspension.com/cambercastortoe.htm
http://www.stockcarracing.com/tipstricks/31519/
4) Parts (for a list of parts specific to the 7thgen civic look HERE!)
OK, now its time for the good stuff, Parts. Generally, any performance suspension part will lessen ride quality, so be prepared. I'll start with the most basic of performance handling parts, Wheels and Tires.
Wheels
You know those shiny things holding your tires on. Some people call them rims, but that’s just a throw back to the 50's and 60's when all wheels were steel and to dress them up people put chrome rims on them to make them look pretty. Ok enough of the history lesson, up sized wheels can both help and hinder handling. They help by replacing large areas of flexible rubber with relatively inflexible metal. This can significantly reduce wheel/tire deflection in cornering (i.e. it stops the tire from bending to maximize the tires contact patch). Alloy wheels also help to cool your brakes, they are like big heat sinks helping reduce the risk of brake fade under hard braking, that and most alloy wheels are more open then stock thus letting more air in to cool the brakes down. If they are light enough, they can improve acceleration and braking.
Autox Tip:
You should use the lightest, smallest diameter wheels that will clear the brakes. If you are racing stock they must be the same size as the stock steelie or alloy, so for DX/LX they must be 14” while EX’s can get 15”. They shouldn't be overly expensive (no one races on Mugens) because you'll probably mess them up at some point. Rotas and Konigs are EXTREMELY popular with the STS crowd because they're cheap and light. Most popular tire choices are the Falken Azenis Sport or the Kumho Ecsta MX...cheap and sticky. Any performance tire will do fine if you need to double it for road use. I don't recommend using factory tires if you want to do well. Also, the wider the rim and tire the better. So look into things like offset (on our car anything from about a 37-45 offset will fit) and the width of the rim (i.e. 15x6 vs. 15x7.5). Hardcore racers get lightweight, wide rims like Bassetts or Centerlines and race on tires like Hoosiers, which cannot be run on the street. These rims and tires will bump you to SM, but provide great dry traction.
Tires
Dollar for dollar a good set of tires will boost you cornering abilities more then any other part. Performance tires aren’t cheep, but cost less then high performance tires, which in turn are cheaper then Ultra high performance tires. Race compound tires, surprisingly, can cost less then Ultra high performance tires, however you must consider the cost per mile. Ultra high performance tires, while offering the best traction for street tires, wear the quickest of all street tires. (Approx 20,000 miles.) Race compound tires can be found in many DOT legal treads (Meaning that they are legal to use on the street) and if driven lightly may last you 10,000 miles. Race compound DOT tires make gobs of traction, in the dry. When it's wet out forget it. You may as well have bald tires on ice. So think about where and when you intend to use a tire, then pick the right one for your needs. For those who intend to race, 1/4 mile or Autocross/Track Days, I highly recommend getting a second set of wheels and tires. Race compound tires while extremely fun on the street will not last long and can be dangerous in the rain.
Autox Tip:
Tire pressure are extremely important when Autoxing. Tire Pressures will depend on the tire size. Regardless of tire size you're going to end up with the fronts set higher than the back. The easiest and cheapest way to determine if they're right is to mark your tires. If you look closely at the tire, you will see several arrowheads along the side of the treadblock. Their primary purpose is to locate the wear indicators in the tread, but it also serves as a perfect reference for rollover. As you corner, the tire rolls, the key is to get the tire to roll to the top point of the arrow, but NEVER past that. Always start at a higher pressure and lower it as you go. Rolling past the top of the arrow can destroy the tire (you're driving on the sidewall), or cause the tire to separate from the rim. This is really only useful in the fronts, since when you corner most of the weight transfers forward. The rears have to be adjusted by feel. If the car oversteers severely (its rare, but I've done it), drop the pressure. If it understeers a lot then raise the pressure up a little. You know you've got it about right when the car just gently pushes. It’s very hard to totally neutralize the handling with tire pressures alone; the effect of getting it close is profound. I have experimented with the "crowned" rear tires (over inflating the rears to reduce the contact patch), it doesn't seem to work very well. The car gets extremely tail happy.
Shocks & Springs
Contrary to popular belief, shocks don’t actually absorb shocks, but rather they dampen vibrations. The springs actually absorb shocks over bumps and control body roll. The shocks control the oscillations of the springs, determining how fast the spring moves up and down. Stiffer shock rates slow spring movements, while a softer shock rate allows the spring to move faster. Shaft speeds. Shocks work mostly with in a range of about 3 inches per second to about 20 inches per second. The lower speeds come in to play during weight transfer when the body is rolling or pitching. The high speeds come in to play over bumps and ruts. A shock manufacturer can alter low-,medium-, and high-speed valving to control what the shock does in different situations. Low- and medium-speed valving are used to control how the shock influences handling. When a shock is user adjustable, it is usually the low-speed valving that can be altered. Springs, are the heart of the suspension system. Springs perform five critical jobs. First, they keep the chassis and suspension from bottoming out over bumps. Second, they control the tires over bumps. Third, they control body roll during cornering, chassis squat during acceleration, and chassis dive under braking. Fourth, the springs determine how the load on the tires shifts during braking, cornering, and acceleration. (this makes them a pivotal component in establishing the neutral handling balance of the car) Finally, the springs are the major factor in establishing the ride height of the chassis.
Anti-Rollbars/rollbars/swaybars ect.
Anti-roll bars are quite possibly the best addition to cars since tires. They provide an excellent means for adjusting roll couple Distribution (Handling balance). They also control body roll, reducing camber change through corners. Of the two jobs that an Anti-Rollbar does, adjusting the Roll Couple Distribution is the MOST important. So just what is roll couple distribution? Simply put, roll couple distribution is the amount of roll resistance at the front of the car relative to the amount at the rear. Changing the roll couple distribution balance changes the handling balance of the car. This makes roll resistance changes the key to finding a perfect steady-state handling balance. Adjustable anti-rollbars allow fine-tuning of the roll couple distribution making setup much easier. There is a chart in
Strut/Tie bars/Roll cages
Strut bars are a chassis reinforcement made to reduce flex in the body of the car they are also known as Tie bars when struts are not present on the car. Roll cages main purpose is to protect the people in the car if the car were to flip over. Roll cages can also help to brace chassis flex and allow for safe 4-6 point harness attachment.
Polyurethane bushings
The stock bushings are rubber which allow for soft and squishy contact. Poly ones are harder. By replacing the rubber bushings with poly bushings you will reduce ride comfort but you can affect things like weight transfer, steering, etc. There are many different types of rubber mounts in your car. Motor mounts are usually rubber and lessen the vibration the engine puts out. Changing to poly mounts, you will keep the engine more stable which will greatly help weight transfer, but you might feel the engine shake more. There are also control arm bushings. Control arm bushings are bushings that buffer some of the road vibration when you are driving. By changing the front ones you can increase steering response as well as weight transfer. The rears will help with weight transfer. There are other poly bushings you can get for the transmission, ball joints, sway bars, endlinks, tie rods, strut rods, etc. Energy Suspension and Prothane are two good bushing companies.
This FAQ created by Robbclark1 with the help of Boilermaker1, Zzyzx, & Patrick Martin. Much thanks to everyone involved!! Also thanks goes out to Vnlilman and Civic01VtecPS
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/fa...s#faq_susp_faq
Suspension Tuning 101
1) What do you want to do with your car?
2) Vehicle Dynamics
4) Camber/Caster/Toe
3) Parts
1) What do you want to do with your car?
It may be a simple question, but you have yourself this question before you start modifying your suspension. Do you just want to lower for show points, or do you want some serious suspension modifications so you can compete nationally? Before you slap on a performance suspension part, think about what it does and how it will allow you to move your car better. Sit back and think about it while you read up on suspension tuning.
2) Vehicle Dynamics
Here is a link to Mike Kojima’s Nissan Sentra handling page. He has been fine-tuning Nissans for years and has god-like status, so he knows his stuff. Now some of this applies only to Sentras but he has a lot of general information on here so read it all!
Mike Kojima's Suspension Tuning page
Another good page
Suspension Tuning 101 Thread by Zzyzx for more info!
To get the maximum performance out of your car you have to first understand vehicle dynamics. Basically Vehicle dynamics are all of the things that affect the way your car handles, such as accelerating, braking, turning and various road surfaces and conditions. Most of this deals with weight transfer. When you accelerate, weight is transferred to the back, when you brake, weight goes to the front. And when you turn weight is transferred to the outside of the corner. The rest deals with your suspensions ability to keep the tires firmly planted on the ground and keeping the tire contact patch as large as possible.
a. Weight
From every thing I’ve read, been told or seen work, how well a car handles is all about how well that car handles weight; as in where the weight is located in the car, where that weight gets transferred during cornering and how fast it gets transferred. Every thing you do to your car be it springs, shocks, or what not affects how the car handles its weight. Why is Weight so important to handling? Well that deals directly to how a tire makes traction. It’s a simple concept: the more weight on a tire, the more traction it will make. But this simple concept has a twist, and it goes: the amount of traction gained by increasing load decreases as more load gets placed on the tire. Meaning a tire with 100 lbs place on it will make 100lbs of traction, but a tire with 200 lbs on it will only make 180Lbs of traction a 10% loss. (This is an exaggeration but you get the idea). This concept of Diminishing returns brings up 2 truths.
1. A lighter car is inherently more maneuverable then a heavy car.
2. Weight transfer is bad for handling.
The first one is easy to explain. We’ll use our overly exaggerated tires as examples and put them on 2 cars. Car A weighs 400LBS evenly distributed between all 4 tires, car B weighs 800LBS also evenly distributed between all 4 tires. So using the tire above, car A will be producing 800LBS of traction where car B will be making 1520LBS of traction. What this means is that although car B is making more traction, Car A is making proportionately more traction Vs its weight. (Car A is making 200% traction Vs. Weight, were car B is making 190% traction Vs. weight).
The second truth is a bit more complex. We will use Car B as our example here. Car B is making 1520 LBS of traction when it’s not cornering. When the car turns, weight gets transferred from the inside tires to the outside tires, so lets say 100 LBS came off of each inside tire. Now the 2 outside tires have 300LBS on them each, were the inside tires only have 100 lbs each. With 300lbs on the out side tires they are making 510lbs of traction a 30% loss (1020 total LBS) and the inside tires are making 200 LBS each (400 LBS) so now the total traction being made is only 1420 LBS Vs the 1520Lbs it was making before it turned. This is overly exaggerated for clarity, but the concept remains.
So with these truths comes the reasoning that getting rid of weight and stopping weight transfer is a good thing.
b. Traction
Ok you now know how weight affects traction, but what exactly is “traction”. Traction is the tires ability to grip the road, and a tire only has so much traction. Tires make traction though friction between the rubber molecules at the tire contact patch and the road surface. And as discussed before, traction increases as vertical load on the tire increases, which is why aerodynamic down force works so well. Lastly, a tire will make more traction if the entire contact patch is equally loaded. There are 5 characteristics that affect traction. 1. Basic tire design and construction. 2. Sidewall rigidity. 3. Tread rubber compound. 4. Tread design. And 5. Tire size. Of these characteristics we only have a choice of Tire size, compound and Tread design. We can also control the tires pressure, camber, toe in/out and camber change [Camber Change is the number of degrees of camber that wheels lose or gain from static (down the straightaway) to dynamic (in the middle of the turns) chassis attitude.]
Mike Kojima's page has a large chart demonstrating what happens when you change certain parts and settings!!! Read it carefully.
3) Camber/Caster/Toe
Camber, caster, and toe are all changes to the way your wheels and tires come in contact with the ground. Most factory cars have some negative camber in the rear set. Most owners’ manuals will tell you OEM specs of camber, caster and toe. These settings can become moved by driving, hit potholes, racing, etc. This is why you get an alignment every so often. Alignment shops will return your car to factory or near factory settings.
They affect vehicle dynamics greatly if fine-tuned. Each car is different so you will have to play with the sittings to get the desired results. General rule of thumb is that some negative camber and some toe out will help handling, but the amounts will vary. So please don’t think that leaving your tires at –2 degrees camber all the time will help you! By changing the camber, caster and toe, you WILL ruin your tires faster. They take more stress and take the corners harder so it is suggested that you don’t run with “race” settings on the street if you can prevent it. You will be buying tires every month. Parts like Camber or caster plates allow for quick changing of the camber or caster for race days.
Links
http://www.artsautomotive.com/thealignmentstory.htm
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
http://corvettesuspension.com/cambercastortoe.htm
http://www.stockcarracing.com/tipstricks/31519/
4) Parts (for a list of parts specific to the 7thgen civic look HERE!)
OK, now its time for the good stuff, Parts. Generally, any performance suspension part will lessen ride quality, so be prepared. I'll start with the most basic of performance handling parts, Wheels and Tires.
Wheels
You know those shiny things holding your tires on. Some people call them rims, but that’s just a throw back to the 50's and 60's when all wheels were steel and to dress them up people put chrome rims on them to make them look pretty. Ok enough of the history lesson, up sized wheels can both help and hinder handling. They help by replacing large areas of flexible rubber with relatively inflexible metal. This can significantly reduce wheel/tire deflection in cornering (i.e. it stops the tire from bending to maximize the tires contact patch). Alloy wheels also help to cool your brakes, they are like big heat sinks helping reduce the risk of brake fade under hard braking, that and most alloy wheels are more open then stock thus letting more air in to cool the brakes down. If they are light enough, they can improve acceleration and braking.
Autox Tip:
You should use the lightest, smallest diameter wheels that will clear the brakes. If you are racing stock they must be the same size as the stock steelie or alloy, so for DX/LX they must be 14” while EX’s can get 15”. They shouldn't be overly expensive (no one races on Mugens) because you'll probably mess them up at some point. Rotas and Konigs are EXTREMELY popular with the STS crowd because they're cheap and light. Most popular tire choices are the Falken Azenis Sport or the Kumho Ecsta MX...cheap and sticky. Any performance tire will do fine if you need to double it for road use. I don't recommend using factory tires if you want to do well. Also, the wider the rim and tire the better. So look into things like offset (on our car anything from about a 37-45 offset will fit) and the width of the rim (i.e. 15x6 vs. 15x7.5). Hardcore racers get lightweight, wide rims like Bassetts or Centerlines and race on tires like Hoosiers, which cannot be run on the street. These rims and tires will bump you to SM, but provide great dry traction.
Tires
Dollar for dollar a good set of tires will boost you cornering abilities more then any other part. Performance tires aren’t cheep, but cost less then high performance tires, which in turn are cheaper then Ultra high performance tires. Race compound tires, surprisingly, can cost less then Ultra high performance tires, however you must consider the cost per mile. Ultra high performance tires, while offering the best traction for street tires, wear the quickest of all street tires. (Approx 20,000 miles.) Race compound tires can be found in many DOT legal treads (Meaning that they are legal to use on the street) and if driven lightly may last you 10,000 miles. Race compound DOT tires make gobs of traction, in the dry. When it's wet out forget it. You may as well have bald tires on ice. So think about where and when you intend to use a tire, then pick the right one for your needs. For those who intend to race, 1/4 mile or Autocross/Track Days, I highly recommend getting a second set of wheels and tires. Race compound tires while extremely fun on the street will not last long and can be dangerous in the rain.
Autox Tip:
Tire pressure are extremely important when Autoxing. Tire Pressures will depend on the tire size. Regardless of tire size you're going to end up with the fronts set higher than the back. The easiest and cheapest way to determine if they're right is to mark your tires. If you look closely at the tire, you will see several arrowheads along the side of the treadblock. Their primary purpose is to locate the wear indicators in the tread, but it also serves as a perfect reference for rollover. As you corner, the tire rolls, the key is to get the tire to roll to the top point of the arrow, but NEVER past that. Always start at a higher pressure and lower it as you go. Rolling past the top of the arrow can destroy the tire (you're driving on the sidewall), or cause the tire to separate from the rim. This is really only useful in the fronts, since when you corner most of the weight transfers forward. The rears have to be adjusted by feel. If the car oversteers severely (its rare, but I've done it), drop the pressure. If it understeers a lot then raise the pressure up a little. You know you've got it about right when the car just gently pushes. It’s very hard to totally neutralize the handling with tire pressures alone; the effect of getting it close is profound. I have experimented with the "crowned" rear tires (over inflating the rears to reduce the contact patch), it doesn't seem to work very well. The car gets extremely tail happy.
Shocks & Springs
Contrary to popular belief, shocks don’t actually absorb shocks, but rather they dampen vibrations. The springs actually absorb shocks over bumps and control body roll. The shocks control the oscillations of the springs, determining how fast the spring moves up and down. Stiffer shock rates slow spring movements, while a softer shock rate allows the spring to move faster. Shaft speeds. Shocks work mostly with in a range of about 3 inches per second to about 20 inches per second. The lower speeds come in to play during weight transfer when the body is rolling or pitching. The high speeds come in to play over bumps and ruts. A shock manufacturer can alter low-,medium-, and high-speed valving to control what the shock does in different situations. Low- and medium-speed valving are used to control how the shock influences handling. When a shock is user adjustable, it is usually the low-speed valving that can be altered. Springs, are the heart of the suspension system. Springs perform five critical jobs. First, they keep the chassis and suspension from bottoming out over bumps. Second, they control the tires over bumps. Third, they control body roll during cornering, chassis squat during acceleration, and chassis dive under braking. Fourth, the springs determine how the load on the tires shifts during braking, cornering, and acceleration. (this makes them a pivotal component in establishing the neutral handling balance of the car) Finally, the springs are the major factor in establishing the ride height of the chassis.
Anti-Rollbars/rollbars/swaybars ect.
Anti-roll bars are quite possibly the best addition to cars since tires. They provide an excellent means for adjusting roll couple Distribution (Handling balance). They also control body roll, reducing camber change through corners. Of the two jobs that an Anti-Rollbar does, adjusting the Roll Couple Distribution is the MOST important. So just what is roll couple distribution? Simply put, roll couple distribution is the amount of roll resistance at the front of the car relative to the amount at the rear. Changing the roll couple distribution balance changes the handling balance of the car. This makes roll resistance changes the key to finding a perfect steady-state handling balance. Adjustable anti-rollbars allow fine-tuning of the roll couple distribution making setup much easier. There is a chart in
Strut/Tie bars/Roll cages
Strut bars are a chassis reinforcement made to reduce flex in the body of the car they are also known as Tie bars when struts are not present on the car. Roll cages main purpose is to protect the people in the car if the car were to flip over. Roll cages can also help to brace chassis flex and allow for safe 4-6 point harness attachment.
Polyurethane bushings
The stock bushings are rubber which allow for soft and squishy contact. Poly ones are harder. By replacing the rubber bushings with poly bushings you will reduce ride comfort but you can affect things like weight transfer, steering, etc. There are many different types of rubber mounts in your car. Motor mounts are usually rubber and lessen the vibration the engine puts out. Changing to poly mounts, you will keep the engine more stable which will greatly help weight transfer, but you might feel the engine shake more. There are also control arm bushings. Control arm bushings are bushings that buffer some of the road vibration when you are driving. By changing the front ones you can increase steering response as well as weight transfer. The rears will help with weight transfer. There are other poly bushings you can get for the transmission, ball joints, sway bars, endlinks, tie rods, strut rods, etc. Energy Suspension and Prothane are two good bushing companies.
This FAQ created by Robbclark1 with the help of Boilermaker1, Zzyzx, & Patrick Martin. Much thanks to everyone involved!! Also thanks goes out to Vnlilman and Civic01VtecPS
Premium Member
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 162
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From: San Diego, California, US
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Originally Posted by 04RedCiVP
Get springs....I have had nothing but issues with the 2 coilover setups I've had. I've always gone back to springs....but thats just my .02
Thanks.
Originally Posted by aznsensation18
i have a question also??????? should i get ground control or just save and get TEIN basic coilovers...... what do yall think.....
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,402
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From: Oklahoma City
Rep Power: 276 im waiting to hear what people say about the new omni power coilovers. all the other gen civics love them. they arent bad for the price either. not out yet, i think they will be out in mid january.
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12
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From: Valdosta, Ga
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I've always read that springs give you a more comfortable ride and coilovers will have you feeling every bump in the road. Than again, you can adjust your height with coilovers, where with springs, you're stuck at the height set by the springs.
Sometimes, I can see right through myself ...
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,276
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From: 757
Rep Power: 481 I've got a set of Goldlines, and I've loved them. They were great, except for the fact that I blew my shocks. But then again, I think the shop did a shitty job in installing them. I think they just threw out the bumpstops! Idiots ...
I've got a set of Tein SS sitting in the corner of my room, waiting for some warmer weather. I was going to go with just the Basics, but I wanted something with dampening adjustability too. That, and I got a pretty damned good deal on them.
If you don't want to invest all the money into full coilovers, at least get some Ground Controls or Skunk2s with some aftermarket shocks.
I've got a set of Tein SS sitting in the corner of my room, waiting for some warmer weather. I was going to go with just the Basics, but I wanted something with dampening adjustability too. That, and I got a pretty damned good deal on them.
If you don't want to invest all the money into full coilovers, at least get some Ground Controls or Skunk2s with some aftermarket shocks.
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Originally Posted by taz757
I've got a set of Tein SS sitting in the corner of my room, waiting for some warmer weather. I was going to go with just the Basics, but I wanted something with dampening adjustability too. That, and I got a pretty damned good deal on them.
I've got a set of Goldlines, and I've loved them. They were great, except for the fact that I blew my shocks. But then again, I think the shop did a shitty job in installing them. I think they just threw out the bumpstops! Idiots ...
regardless what they did, your car is lowered and if you have stock struts on any car with a spring your going to blow them. its nothing new. the same with coilovers, and i had the skunk2 ones and they bounce like your a freakin mexician jumping bean. my goldline springs can not complain on bit about them. and yes i do need new struts but its not bad at all.
regardless what they did, your car is lowered and if you have stock struts on any car with a spring your going to blow them. its nothing new. the same with coilovers, and i had the skunk2 ones and they bounce like your a freakin mexician jumping bean. my goldline springs can not complain on bit about them. and yes i do need new struts but its not bad at all.
Last edited by exturbo6; Dec 28, 2004 at 09:17 AM.
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Rep Power: 339 you should rephrase that...
springs vs sleeved coilovers vs full coilovers
springs cant adjust but are tuned for the specific vehicle, harder than stock but softer than a sleeved coilover, usually the best bang for your buck
sleeved coilovers, springrate cant be adjusted, only height can be adjusted, usually a harsher springrate
full coilovers, usually dont come with different springrates(different coils), height is adjustable, so are the dampers that were designed with the springs, best option if you can afford it
springs vs sleeved coilovers vs full coilovers
springs cant adjust but are tuned for the specific vehicle, harder than stock but softer than a sleeved coilover, usually the best bang for your buck
sleeved coilovers, springrate cant be adjusted, only height can be adjusted, usually a harsher springrate
full coilovers, usually dont come with different springrates(different coils), height is adjustable, so are the dampers that were designed with the springs, best option if you can afford it
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Rep Power: 380 OK... were to start... I've been over this subject so many times..
First off, there is no reason why a spring or a Sleeved spring can't be set up to ride and handle just as good if not better then a "Full coilover". The primary drawback of them are that if you run them on OEM shocks you will eventually comprimise the handling and ride quality of the car. SO, and this should be obvious by now, in order to get the best performance out of any spring, you must tie it in with a damper that can adequately control it.
Secondly, "coilovers" are not by default the best option, they are just the option that takes the least amount of thinking.
Here are some pros and cons of both a Piecmeal suspension (Spring Tied in with a performanc damper) and a "Coilover"
Piecemeal suspension....
Pro: Typicaly cheeper, It allows you to purchace what chould be the best shock for your application (be it Koni, Penske, KYB, Tokico or Moton), and You can pick any spring rate and/or length that best suits your application (as long as the sping fits the collar you are using) also, Companys such as koni will modify their dampers to better suit your wants/needs. (Revalving, up valving, Modification to Double or triple adjsutiblity ect..)
Con: You'll need to do your home work inorder to get the best performance out of the setup (you'll need to understand what you want and what you'll need to get it).
"Full Coilover"
Pro: every thing comes in one neat pacage (Spring + shock), some companys offer alternat spring rates that work with in the intergrated dampers Range, and Some offer options such as intergrated camber plates
Con: You are trusting that the company did their home work when designing that suspension for your car/application e.g., did they design it with street use in mind, or was this a Race only application, as well as did the company even test at all...
So you can see that there are pros and cons to each rout.. But just because the "full coilover" requires less thinking at the end users side doesnt mean its better then a spring + shock combo, Its just more convenient.
and finally.... a "Full Coilover" setup is actually a Rarity in the Race world. Most of the Road racers and Autocrossers I know (That run Production cars, rather then Formula Cars) Run a set of Ground Controls (custom spring rate) With a stock or revalved koni shock. The only place I've seen "Full Coilovers" as being promoted as Better or even as more popular then a spring/shock combo is in the Import world.
First off, there is no reason why a spring or a Sleeved spring can't be set up to ride and handle just as good if not better then a "Full coilover". The primary drawback of them are that if you run them on OEM shocks you will eventually comprimise the handling and ride quality of the car. SO, and this should be obvious by now, in order to get the best performance out of any spring, you must tie it in with a damper that can adequately control it.
Secondly, "coilovers" are not by default the best option, they are just the option that takes the least amount of thinking.
Here are some pros and cons of both a Piecmeal suspension (Spring Tied in with a performanc damper) and a "Coilover"
Piecemeal suspension....
Pro: Typicaly cheeper, It allows you to purchace what chould be the best shock for your application (be it Koni, Penske, KYB, Tokico or Moton), and You can pick any spring rate and/or length that best suits your application (as long as the sping fits the collar you are using) also, Companys such as koni will modify their dampers to better suit your wants/needs. (Revalving, up valving, Modification to Double or triple adjsutiblity ect..)
Con: You'll need to do your home work inorder to get the best performance out of the setup (you'll need to understand what you want and what you'll need to get it).
"Full Coilover"
Pro: every thing comes in one neat pacage (Spring + shock), some companys offer alternat spring rates that work with in the intergrated dampers Range, and Some offer options such as intergrated camber plates
Con: You are trusting that the company did their home work when designing that suspension for your car/application e.g., did they design it with street use in mind, or was this a Race only application, as well as did the company even test at all...
So you can see that there are pros and cons to each rout.. But just because the "full coilover" requires less thinking at the end users side doesnt mean its better then a spring + shock combo, Its just more convenient.
and finally.... a "Full Coilover" setup is actually a Rarity in the Race world. Most of the Road racers and Autocrossers I know (That run Production cars, rather then Formula Cars) Run a set of Ground Controls (custom spring rate) With a stock or revalved koni shock. The only place I've seen "Full Coilovers" as being promoted as Better or even as more popular then a spring/shock combo is in the Import world.
Last edited by Zzyzx; Dec 28, 2004 at 10:27 AM.
