owens76

iTrader: (14)

I want to lower my car and just talked to someone who works at Firestone. He told me that they would align any lowered car just as long as they could get it on there alignment rack. He said that that the alignment might not be perfect though, because they would align my car to factory specifications, and that when you lower your car it changes the angles and such. I want to drop my car and have proper alignment so that I do not wear out my tires prematurely. Does anyone have any input on this, if so I would greatly appreciate hearing it?

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Please read the FAQ in my signature. All you need is a camber kit. If you lower too much and have too large of rims/tires you might scrape them on the fenderwell if you have a factory alignment.

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/fa...s#faq_susp_faq


3) Camber/Caster/Toe
Camber, caster, and toe are all changes to the way your wheels and tires come in contact with the ground. Most factory cars have some negative camber in the rear set. Most owners’ manuals will tell you OEM specs of camber, caster and toe. These settings can become moved by driving, hit potholes, racing, etc. This is why you get an alignment every so often. Alignment shops will return your car to factory or near factory settings.
They affect vehicle dynamics greatly if fine-tuned. Each car is different so you will have to play with the sittings to get the desired results. General rule of thumb is that some negative camber and some toe out will help handling, but the amounts will vary. So please don’t think that leaving your tires at –2 degrees camber all the time will help you! By changing the camber, caster and toe, you WILL ruin your tires faster. They take more stress and take the corners harder so it is suggested that you don’t run with “race” settings on the street if you can prevent it. You will be buying tires every month. Parts like Camber or caster plates allow for quick changing of the camber or caster for race days.
Links
http://www.artsautomotive.com/thealignmentstory.htm
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
http://corvettesuspension.com/cambercastortoe.htm
http://www.stockcarracing.com/tipstricks/31519/

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

That guy was an idiot. My alignments are perfect. I have sportlines and konis with SPC front and rear camber kit and everytime I go in for an alignment, I have had my tires on my car for awhile and they still have 100% tread on them. I wouldnt take it to firestone.

MrWong

iTrader: (4)

Try a honda dealer or a performance shop.

One of the Honda dealers in the city where I live does both factory spec alignments and performance alignments.

beastiek2

iTrader: (1)

^^ Never knew that I usually go to Mavis, I am gonna ask Honda tomorrow, I'll be there for oil in the morn.

owens76

iTrader: (14)

I like the lifetime alignment for $129, that is why I wanted to go to Firestone, but if they don't know what they are talking about I should go elsewhere. The only reason I am so worried is because I have 19" rims and don't want to be buying tires all of the time.

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

Not everywhere does lifetime alignments, and most wont do it for lowered cars. I got lucky cause the shop I go to I have been going there for yrs. And spending alot of money with them. And they dont have a problem aligning it and getting it on the machine. If you want to save your tires, get a camber kit, lower control arms, and good tires that will last.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

If you contact the local Autox/Road racing people, they usually can tell you where to get alignments for modified cars.

MrWong

iTrader: (4)

How does lower control arms help with alignments?

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

They don't. LCA's are just the attachments of the wheel to the car. They don't do anything alignment wise, at least not on our car anyway.

MrWong

iTrader: (4)

So changing them would not give any performance benefits then?

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

You can get lighter/stronger ones or put poly bushings in. That is it.

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

It is just a thought since you have a bigger wheel/tire combo. or for anyone that does have them. I meant to say it was supposed to be used for tire rubbing issues, but I said alignment, sorry about that.

MrWong

iTrader: (4)

No worries, it helped spawn a few unanswered questions about lca for me.

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

Well I did think for a minute that it might help for the alignment, but after I kept thinking about it, I knew it was mainly for tire rubbing issues.

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

and to clear a few things up as far as tire wear is concerned. A lowered car will most likely NEVER wear tires like the car was originally designed to do so EVEN if the alignment is set EXZACTLY to spec. But with a properly set alignment you will get comparable tire wear to factory ride hiegth cars. And the rear lower control arms will only add the benifit of being lighter, poly bushings, and BLING factor only.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

BTW the people at Firestone and places like that are idiots. Go to a race alignment shop or a shop that has up to date alignment machines (the ones with the infared panels).

owens76

iTrader: (14)

Anyone know of any shops with infared alignment machines in Chicago?

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

just call around and ask. Most of the big name shops will use them. they are more up to date these days.

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

Not to discredit Robs statement about infared alignment machines. But the more current machines use whats called CCD technology, which is basically a cammera. And to tell the truth if the alignment machine turns on and works properly i can align a 7th gen lowered or not just as well on a machine thats 15 plus years old as to one thats brand new

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

The latest one my car has been on has large octagon disks that go on the wheels that bounce red beams off of them. Don't get it aligned by the ones with the wires.

The ones that tfnaaf mentioned are probably better, but are going to be harder to find. Most people still use the wire ones because the ones I was speaking about cost like 50k.

skipbarber

iTrader: (34)

did mine at merchants $69.99, laser aligned. just like rob said, they attach big octagon reflectors to each wheel and shoot lasers at it. sounds more like star wars..

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

The one your talking about is made by Hunter engineering, its a good machine. But pretty much any machine will do accurate alignments. The biggest error factor USUALLY is the technician running the machine And to be perfectly honest if the OLD Alignment machines ( 20 plus years old ) were still able to update specs they would be more then capable machines to do an alignment. The only REAL differene between the old and the new machines are bells and whisltes, and they are based on a TRUE PC that can have basically unlimited specs stored in its memory. So if you take your car to get it aligned and they cant display your specs its ok, assuming the technician can read a book to look up the specs and set it correctly. And btw the cost on those fancy TARGET style alignment machines start at about $30k and up. Target being the ones that flash a LED light and uses the target to get reflect back to a cammera that then figuers out its alignment angles. The target styles have ZERO electronics in the alginment head and are state of the art. I guess what im trying to say is dont be afraid of the quality of alignment based on the tool being used

streetglower

iTrader: (13)

thats the machine I get my alignments done on. Works very good.

Civic04

iTrader: (1)

I work at a shop and i use the led style but i have had my car done on our old school machine and it was dead on. so like tfnaaf said the machine most of the time dosent matter just as long as the opp isnt a dork.

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Thanks. I have had them done by both and you guys are right. They are equally accurate, but the technician has to be a little more careful in using the wired ones, at least that is how I saw it when I watched them both be done.

LogicWavelength

iTrader: (2)

i just got an alignment done on my car... my car is lowered about 2.75".... and we used an infared rack - but it was only capable of factory spec. using the factory spec, we set toe to 0º.... but now my car pulls left.

i have my fronts set at -1º camberand in the rear i had to set it however i could clear the fender... it looks like 1.X or so... The visual appearance is that they are the same angle as the front, altough i know for a fact they are more negative.

so... any guess as to why my car is pulling left?

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

uh, either 1) bad alignment or 2) something in the frame/control arm is messed up. Have you hit anything?

tfnaaf

iTrader: (2)

some other causes of pull, uneven tread wear, tire sepperation, air pressure, brake drag, power steering imbalance