johndeerebones

Side thought, kind of. Same topic though. I pulled the steering pump and the alternator so I could get to mine. As an aside, if the protector won't come out of its home and you are sure thats your deal PRY IT OUT. It is solid compressor under it, there is nothing in its hole except silicone like he said. I didn't care to wreck it, gonna defeat it when it goes together, simply don't care like blue and it is really a PITA to get to with everything there....

My post is this, got everything off and to it. Got the nut, plate, shim, and snap ring off the compressor and can't get the pulley and bearing off to get to the field. I have a 3 jaw puller, but cussed it trying to get it in the hole and gave up with that dinosaur. Tryed two prybars on the back of the field and couldn't get it off either. The bearing is tight around the compressor...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm glad you posted that here because if you can't do it I surely won't be able to either. I hate this design but it looks like I might be stuck with no AC for the rest of this cars life. I'm not paying Honda 1000 dollars to replace the clutch + coil. They want 600 dollars just for the parts here in Canada.

ezone

HEY I got an email from Matt_75 saying he's having the same issue, locked out and can't make any posts!

This must have been some recent change to the site causing this problem!

It's not just me and I bet there are a whole lot more out there that can't post either.

Anyone else notice the site got slow in the last week or two?

jedema

Can't really post either

ezone

Yeah, but you did. It took me days to figure out how to get around my problem.

What exactly are the problems you are having with posting? How did you get around it?



Here's what I just sent to Matt:



I'm using firefox.
In the drop down menus, pick VIEW > Page Style > select "No Style" instead of "basic style".
Page returns as a simple plain text format, no background, hyperlinks are all in new places.
Then scroll to near the bottom to find the text box to type in.

HTH

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.. let me see if I can put a ticket in. Not even sure if there is anyone to respond.

jedema

Chrome on ipad seems to work.... Exploder at work = disaster

ezone

Thanx. Here's pics. I'm checking the contacts side of the relay circuit, and bypassing the relay. right now I'm ignoring the control side of the relay (its coil or winding) as I already checked it earlier. Test light connected to ground, probing for B+. This shows my fuse is intact for the clutch. Test light is now connected to the positive battery terminal because I'm looking for a ground. The winding of the clutch electromagnetic coil is grounded and provides enough continuity to illuminate the low wattage test light as I probe the other female terminal in the relay socket. The light lit so I know the coil has some sort of connection alll the way to its ground. No open circuit.

I know I SHOULD be able to make the clutch click from this point now. I have power and I have a complete circuit through the clutch to its ground. Now I jumper those 2 terminals with the paper clip (it was handy). If the clutch clicks, it's good enough for the moment. If it doesn't click, then I can chase whatever is wrong. I was actually doing this to check and adjust the clearance or gap of the new clutch I installed, using a dial indicator.



Now to see if all this typing and hassle actually worked...

Matt_75

Test 123 321

ezone

Holy CARP those pics are HUGE! Apparently this isn't resizing automatically?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I've already replaced the relay... so would that rule out what youve stated above?

I've replaced the relay, and bypassed the thermal protector for the compressor. System is pressurized.

I think I have 3 options left.

AC pressure switch (121 dollars in Canada)
AC clutch (360 dollars in Canada)
AC coil (230 in Canada).

I'm terrible at electrical, so I need to figure out wtf is wrong the easiest possible way. Did they ever make a civic without AC? So I can buy a belt and bypass the AC compressor while I try to take it apart. I'm just worried about taking it apart and not being able to put it back together and not being able to run my ACC belt.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

OK, Honda civic DX runs without AC so I can just buy the belt and bypass the AC compressor which will give me time to work on it without stressing.

ezone

Test light bulb and paper clip seems pretty easy to me. Cheap as hell too.

Guesses can be needlessly expensive...as you listed above. Parts replacement can't solve all problems. Cue the parts cannon pic!

Clutch set from Honda normally consists of the pulley and outermost plate, plus C clips and shims. Coil is the electromagnet that engages the clutch. I use ladyfoot prybars or hammer and chisel or a real puller to get the pulley off the snout of the compressor. Just don't damage it, it's a tight fit!

If your fans keep on running when the compressor quits, it is NOT the pressure switch. (As long as it isn't coolant temperature turning the fans on.) This should be seen in the wiring diagram.

Yes you can get a belt for a non-AC car.


Man, I need a real video camera. And a crew. LOL

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

OK The fans still run then its definitely the coil or clutch. The method above tests the clutch?

ezone

I hate getting dirty and I hate work. I'm energy efficient (LAZY). Checking from the relay is easiest for me. Even easier would be sitting in the drivers seat in the air conditioning, but apparently that isn't gonna happen with your car.

I can check almost all I need from the relay socket, once I know which terminals go to where.

I can make sure the relay is getting its 2 powers
I can see that the computer is trying to control the relay with a ground signal, and
I can check if the clutch has or has not gone open circuit. (I can use the ohm meter from this socket if I need to too.)
I can bypass the relay and manually power up the clutch.
All in about 30 seconds.
If any of those are missing or wrong, then I can figure out what my next steps are.

You should only make checks if you know what's supposed to be going on and how it's supposed to work. You shouldn't just randomly stab and shove paper clips in places if you really don't know what you are doing because you can cause yourself expensive damage if you do it wrong.. Relays are a basic in electrical controls. Check at www.the12volt.com for some basics. http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Yea I'll do some reading. Then I'll attempt to do what you say see if the clutch attempts to engage. Having replaced the relay I have a feeling it won't. I'm good with mechanical stuff.. need to work on electrical thanks ezone. I'll definitely try this though. How would you know if the clutch has gone open circuit?

ezone

Go back up to my pics and read where I had the test light connected to the positive battery post. If it didn't light up then I would have had an open circuit. I actually had to chase it under the van on this when I DID find the "no light" (open circuit if using an ohm meter) at the relay socket. I had to go under the van right to the clutch connector and wiring and do my next set of checks there, so as to verify where the problem really was.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Ok.. I missed that earlier. It's coming up funny probably because your not using the same format as I am due to forum fail.

ezone

Aaaaand now the pics have been resized again. WTF is going on here?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

ezone forum voodoo... lol

johndeerebones

Lady foots, I have them, I'll go out in my garage and do that now. Ya, the parts cannon is expensive and usually fixes nothing. Our last car was an 04 yukon. The CEL was on when I bought it. Got it cheaper too, the guy said it was on for 2 years! It was having to do with the tank vent. Long story short I pulled the LR wheel and the inner fender. A $.05 butt connector to fix a wire fixed it. Proper diagnosis will save you money man. If you don't understand electrical you are not alone. I used to be there. Get a Fundamentals of Service book for electrical. They are generic and will teach you some general electrical theory. Look it up online. Don't beat yourself up with the I can't do it defeatus attitude. It is nuts and bolts dude. Dig in!

ezone

Gotta have them almost exactly 180* apart and sorta walk the piece off the snout, one wiggle at a time. Good idea. Electrical is not nuts and bolts IMO. It's a bit more than that.

Electrical work has been described as the final frontier of automotive techs. Seems like a good 3/4 of mechanics in the field just don't understand it.
At my first real wrench job I earned the name Fusebox.

johndeerebones

LOL fusebox. I was eluding to everyone seems to think electrical is some "black magic", it isn't. Half the battle is being scared... You are right though, out of 10 techs in a shop 1 or 2 will actually understand electrical....

I got it off, the ladyfoots worked, but couldn't pry it at all, used a heel of one and hooked the pulley back and pecked it off with a hammer on the bar. The coil does have some magnetism, but it is weak. It ohms at 4.2 ohms, which is too much by my tech book. Also I have feelered it and it was in adjustment too. Couldn't engage it with 12v either. The wiring did ohm and load to the clutch fine too.

ezone

I sure can't explain my thought processes when I'm diagnosing something. It's like being "in the zone".

You guys think electrical problems in your cars are bad to figure out now, just wait until you have much newer cars with "electrical" issues to deal with.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I know and I wanna buy a hybrid.. yikes. I could understand it I've just never tried to be honest. I'm definitely no mechanic though. I can do almost anything to my civic but give me another car and I'm just about lost unless its something similar (suspension, etc.)

ezone

If you concentrate on learning basics and principles instead of specific procedures for a certain (whatever), it opens up far more opportunities. Once you learn them, you can apply them as needed to figure out other things.

Early in my career I spent a bunch of time with just a couple of brands of cars and was sort of stuck in their way of thinking, and other brands didn't really make sense until I learned that most auto manufacturers' computer systems all operate on the same principles. They all primarily operate on 5v, 8v, and 12v, and sensors either modify input voltages to produce usable output signals or they generate their own signals....using some basic principles of electricity and/or magnetism.

johndeerebones

Ya, general principles is the ticket man. I have owned 15 or so vehicles in my "young" life and each one is a little different in their own way, but like he said they all use the same ideas...

Disclaimer: I know 2001s are different a/c electrically than other 7th gens, but my protector was inline with the + 12v wire. The ground wire comes up and is a ring terminal grounded under the bolt that holds the clamp down. The other wire plugs into the circuit with the protector in it. Cut the wires off the protector and butt connected it. To anyone worried about corrosion use some heat shrink butt connectors. Butt connects and seals the wire. You can buy a pack of them at the zone or whatever. Yes they are more money than regular connectors, but worth every penny IMO.

I screwed the threads up in the alternator bracket, so along with this job I had to drill it out and retap it. Couldn't find a m10 bolt in a length I was happy with, so I got one too long, drilled the bracket out and am gonna locknut it on the back side. For anyone doing this that is the way to go, a new bracket from Majestic was 33.00 plus the bolt. I spent 5.00 and was able to fix it satisfactorily. The worst part was getting the bracket out from the timing cover. I was able to sneak it out with the rocker cover in place, but no way I was getting it back in after the fix, had to loosen up the cover too...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I broke my alternator doing it. The damn positive terminal snapped off inside when I was trying to loosen the nut off. Really poor design that bolt is way too long and way too thin. The alternator was on it's way out anyway but I was ultimately pretty mad still lol.

johndeerebones

It is long, but the pain in the butt is from the way the bracket is designed. You have to take the left engine mount off and jack the engine up to make enough clearance to get the bolt out far enough to remove the alternator. I screwed the threads up with my air ratchet when I replaced the alternator a couple months ago. I think the threads are cut just a tad out of line with the other side of the bracket on mine, end result it was always a pain to start right anyway, but now that isn't an issue

My old alternator was charging and everything fine, it was noisy. The rear bearing is out. Thought about having it rebuilt then selling it. It is the OEM Mitsisubi or whatever alternator, so high quality, just needs a part or two. Found a cheap one on Rock Auto and replaced it. Also thought of putting a bearing in it myself and keeping it for a spare part...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Whaat? No.. you don't need to do that. You have to remove the bracket for the P/S reservoir and the bolt pulls far enough back to remove the alternator without removing the bolt entirely.