thesupersoap33

I love this car, and it runs great when it's running. But lately, its dying as it goes down the road. Dash goes dark and the engine dies. Hood battery has been tested and it's fine. Ima battery cell is charging and discharging as it should. Terminals are clean and well connected. When I jump it it starts and runs just fine, but then dies whenever it feels like it. I've never checked fuses on a car before but I pulled all of them and none of the v' s were broken in any of them.

I love this car and really want to fix this problem.

ezone

If it acts as though the key was turned off, test (the electrical half of) the ignition switch circuits WHILE it is acting up.

Usually one can tell it's not in good health because the dash and warning lights will flicker or cut out as you slowly roll the key through the "run" position detent area, because the contacts points in the switch aren't making positive contact in all areas anymore.





With that many miles you might just toss a switch at it.
Not the entire lock with keys, just the electrical switch portion of it like this:

thesupersoap33

Hey thanks! Yeah it does act like I just turned the whole car off. And sometimes, I'll go to start it and the dash lights will flicker and click very rapidly. A few times trying like that and everything will go black like it's completely dead until I get it jumped off again and it starts right up. One time when it died on the road and I pulled it over, everything was completely dead but there was a clicking, whirring noise coming from inside the steering column. On another occassion, there was an intermittent clicking, that sounded like an open/shutting noise coming from sort of behind the radio but more on the drivers side. It would happen ever 10 seconds and this was even with the car completely dead.

Is that just an ignition switch?

ezone

Sounds like a bad one.

thesupersoap33

here is a link. It's the latest video of me trying to start it after it died and needed another jump. I can hear the clicking behind the passenger side dash panel. Hope this helps. I hope it's a relay or something. The ignition seems fine, but maybe that's it. Want a good diagnosis before I just start throwing parts at it!

ezone

HEY that helps a lot, that just sounds like a weak or drained 12v battery. (seeing it happen is very different from typed description LOL)

How did you get it to start? Was someone standing there with jumper cables ready to connect it?

It sounded like the 12v starter cranked the engine (or was that the jumper truck, a Dodge Ram?) instead of the IMA (silent start), so do you have a problem with the IMA system...like weak battery pack?

Does the red battery warning icon stay lit on the dash?

thesupersoap33

Hey back! The battery light does stay on, but will also turn off for a few days and the car will start and run fine. Then there are the days leading up to a road death where the light will come on whenever the engine is idling at low rpms.

The ima seems fine to me. When I bought it, the check engine light was on as well as the ima, but looking around on youtube... it's a common problem and doesn't indicate an actual problem with the battery pack. It charges and assists like a champ when it's running!

And yes, this is what happens before I jump it. It will jump right off without a glitch and stay running until it randomly dies or the battery gets drained mysteriously.

The battery is four years old but tested good both inside and outside the car.

Thanks for your mind power!

ezone

Huge problem.
Still a huge problem.
It's clearly not fine, as evidenced by the multiple warning lights you described. (The IMA system as a whole incorporates far more than just a battery pack and motor.)
You're only lying to yourself, despite your car having a huge problem.
I bet the charge level gauge drops like a rock and IMA assist wanes or ceases completely after one or two full throttle accelerations up to highway speed.
Which battery is that?

If the IMA system is broken and cannot charge the 12v battery, you end up stranded on the side of the road needing jump starts.





Back to my last post:
It sounded like the 12v starter cranked the engine instead of the IMA (silent start). Which was it, how did your hybrid engine start?

Or did I hear your jumper truck start up in the video, a Dodge product (Ram?)

thesupersoap33

Do you own or have you owned or worked on a civic hybrid specifically? Just curious.

thesupersoap33

No I didn't crank it in the video. That was my neighbor starting his truck.

thesupersoap33

No it assists fine. It completely charges and then discharges as the assist is used.

thesupersoap33

Wait no you make a good point. I learned recently that the hybrids don't have alternators, that the battery cell acts as the alternator for the car, which recharges the 12v under the hood like in a normal car. So the ima isn't charging my 12v as it should which would mean that the hybrid cell might be ****ed and I have a piece of **** useless civic on my hands because I have no money to fix this. I'm not paying any amount for a hybrid cell because I simply don't have it.

ezone

I'm a master certified Honda tech. See the bottom line of my signature.

Did it start on the IMA system then? (silent start) Was hard to discern what all went on, it was real busy there for a few seconds.

If it had to use the 12v starter that usually indicates the IMA battery is in a low charge state. Or it's extremely cold.

Otherwise, if the 12v battery was weak at the time then it can't power up all the electronics necessary to make the IMA system run to start the engine, even if the IMA battery were fully charged.

Sure sounded like the starter on a Chrysler product....Ram truck with a gasoline V8 just popped into mind.

thesupersoap33

Once I jumped the car and let it run for awhile, i could turn it off and back on and yes, the ima silent start would start the car. And the battery light would go off. But in a few days, I'll probably go to turn off the car and notice that the 12v battery light would be on and I would be risking it dying on the road if I want to drive it.

ezone

It's actually got a DC-DC converter to step down the high voltage DC down to normal car voltage of 12-14.6v which is supposed to charge the 12v battery when it works correctly.

The IMA motor-generator unit sandwiched between the engine and transmission uses and creates the high voltage, control units handle it and convert it as needed, and the batteries store it. (simplified version)

But it depends on a working IMA battery to do this. A faulty IMA battery can cause the red charging system warning light to stay on, as can other problems not directly related to the IMA battery.
Red charging system warning light usually means the 12v battery is not being charged.

ezone

So figure out the Check engine light fault codes and the IMA system fault codes, that would go a long way toward actually knowing what might be wrong with it.

thesupersoap33

Any advice on what to do at this point? You would know. I don't want to pretend like I know what or why it's doing this at this point. It's my only ride and I just need it to run.

It's still getting 41 mpg on average.

thesupersoap33

I had a mechanic hook it up when I bought it. It had two codes come up for the cell and the integrated assist motor. They told me not to buy it. I bought it anyway after my friend who owned an insight said he knew that it wasn't a serious problem blah blah blah.

I'll get it coded again as soon as I can.

ezone

Post the actual fault code numbers from each system if you can. Fault codes have much more meaning to me than those words and names.
That was probably great advice.....but you bought it anyway. Now you own the car and all the problems that come with it.

The car was for sale CHEAP for a reason, I'm guessing the seller knew exactly what was wrong and how much it would have cost to get it fixed, and decided someone else needs to own the problem. Repairs needed cost more than the car is worth.

On the other hand, if you do get all this fixed the only other major expensive thing left to puke would be the CVT trans, if it hasn't already been replaced. (Unless the car has a manual trans)


If you end up needing control units or something, these cars should be easily found in junkyards because so many people dump them as soon as they find out how much an IMA battery or a transmission costs. I doubt junkyards will sell the IMA battery as it's usually removed first as hazardous material, but you can ask.

If you are brave, not skeered of a little high voltage, have 600v rated insulated gloves, and can follow safety practices of a power company lineman, you can DIY pull the battery pack out and find places that rebuild your IMA battery or that sell rebuilt IMA batteries, or you can buy cells and DIY replace individual cell packs yourself (NOTE THIS HIGH VOLTAGE STUFF CAN KILL YOU UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD)



Yeah, right. I'm sure a little black tape over those annoying lights made all his problems go away, so that's all yours needs as well.

thesupersoap33

I traded a 2003 Suzuki marauder for it that was worth about 1300 bucks. Sort of wish I still had that instead of these problems, but that's life in a trade situation. It was good for about 12000 miles.

This is today after a friend jumped it:


I let it run for ten minutes and that wasn't enough apparently. Once I turned it off, it came to a dead stop and wouldn't even make a peep when I turned the key. If I'm going to get codes, the machine it going to have to come to me.

I think I need to sell this thing fast.

ezone

Tach needle drops to zero, odometer display disappears as well as the fuel gauge display...and it sounded like the engine continued to run when it did this?
I haven't witnessed one do that before.


Every system and computer in the car relies on the 12v battery system for basic power. If it's being drained while the engine is running, you may see all sorts of weird things happen.

Battery light, check engine light, IMA light....EPS light? If that's been on I'd expect it to have voltage related codes too.

thesupersoap33

Yup. The engine sounds great, revs great, but I don't trust this thing on the road at all right now. I'll try to get the codes and post them asap.

thesupersoap33

Okay so this is where im at. Took the car to advanced auto to try and get them to hook up the car to their code checker. The checker wasn't reading the car.... nada. So the guy says it's my hybrid battery and the car is useless. Thanks advanced auto for your insight! I also have a mechanic come look at the car and he takes my back seat out and uses a voltmeter and tests the hybrid cell and it's at a 0 so he says it's the hybrid cell. Thanks dude that's so smart! I still want to know what this clicking is behind the dash on the passenger side and in the steering wheel housing so there's this video I find on YouTube called honda civic limp mode. His car is doing every thing mine is doing and his is an lx. His diagnosis was that the ecu is fried and the main relay is what's making all the noise and the clicking.

So my next question is, how easy is it to replace the ecu? People are saying that a honda computer has to flash it to make it link with the car and the cars key set. Is this true?

I should also add that I jumped the car off a few days ago and drove to a friend's house that was twenty miles away. I posted some videos of the cars dash readings on youtube. The hybrid cell was charging completely and discharging completely and was assisting several times on the trip over to my friends. I get in her driveway and the car just dies... completely goes black and won't even make a noise when i turn the ignition. The battery light wasn't on, just the ima light and the check engine.

ezone

Didn't they try to sell you a Dorman hybrid battery in a HELP package?

I heard Dorman actually does offer them....


Ya know, I had a lengthy reply going here, but I have now erased it all.

You don't seem to have anyone who can retrieve actual real codes from the IMA system, you don't have anyone who actually knows how this thing is supposed to work and diagnose why this is failing

But kudos to the guy who wasn't scared of getting lit up by a live IMA battery......
Now, did he test that voltage with the main switch still flipped OFF? Did he test that voltage with the main switch ON and engine running? Is that the only check he made?


I think you're gonna be money ahead if you just take it to a Honda dealership and have it diagnosed correctly by someone who has the equipment and training to do so....just gotta make sure their rocket scientist gets it, not the tire kicking parts replacers.

thesupersoap33

Switch was all the way on! He seemed to know his ac and dc stuff pretty well and gave me a lesson. The car was dead.

I agree. But im broke and already posted an ad looking for my ecu and main relay on cl.

ezone

You're gonna be even more broke with a pile of useless parts that didn't fix anything.

The engine runs well when it runs, yes?

You're only guessing PCM because you have a stray relay clicking and a completely different car needed a PCM.

That does not mean your car needs a PCM too.

A PCM will have to be programmed before the engine will run. You will call a tow truck to drag it to the Dealer for programming, or have a very well equipped locksmith come to you to program it. Neither are free of course.

Rather than pay to get a PCM you didn't need, and then pay again to have it programmed, you should fork that same amount of cash over for a real diagnosis.

....or put it toward an IMA battery (because you already know it needs it)?


Have you pinpointed exactly which relay is doing the clicking?
Shall I guess the click of the relay coincides exactly with the gauges and odometer turning off repeatedly in the video?

thesupersoap33

Goddamnit you're right.

I want 100 bucks to fix this.

ezone

You'll be lucky if 100 nets an accurate diagnosis at a dealership.

My dealer charges a bit more than that.
I can't know if your local would be higher or lower.

thesupersoap33

Ok so honda is charging me 50 bucks for a diagnosis and I dropped it off today. They called me this evening and said they haven't checked it yet, but they could tell right away that the 12v was bad. I sort of disagree because I had it checked two separate times at two different advanced autos recently and it tested as a good battery. But whatever, he had nothing to say about it. He just repeated himself, so I guess I'm going to throw money at a new battery and install it at the dealer tomorrow.

I was surprised they didn't just throw a new 12v in it just to ensure a proper diagnosis before calling me. I've had shitty batteries in cars before. Maybe it is the problem. Like I said I drives fine after a jump. The ima is fine. They haven't charged me the 50 yet they said, so if the battery solves the issue, then im roasting my hybrid tires out of there!

ezone

Suggest they install a test battery because yours was new and should be OK after charging? Then have them drive it for (however long it takes to start acting up) so they can see the problems it has.

Note on this, the Honda mandated battery charging station sometimes will refuse to charge a dead battery, I sometimes have to haul out a real charger that does what I need it to do.

Except it leaves the warning light on and as per the title of this thread, and randomly dies on the road.
Except it leaves the warning lights on and you had fault codes.

Yes?

FWIW our scanner may not retrieve all IMA codes during an "all code" scan check, the IMA may need to be read separately. Also, if the battery went dead that stored code info could have been purged from memory.