Rep Power: 126

i obviosly want to replace this.. since am burning oil.

ezone do you have spect and tehcnical manual how to..


i need to measure out of round.

do you hone yours?



do you use oversize piston rings..

any good aftermarket or OEM is better.


..

Can i use Ex piston rings, and get slightly higher compression..

I can run nitruss after, or is it better Dx A1 compression lower for that.

suggestions..

car is old but for few bucks here an there i would mind some extra power.

 
Rep Power: 517

FSM..

I suggest you get a good service manual or access to good information before you dive in.
Is there a problem suspected with that? What would you do about it if you did discover a problem with that?

The original hone/crosshatch finish should be inspected, "the truth" is in that original finish.
Not normally, but it depends on the situation.

Also, see "the truth" line above.
You use only the piston rings that match the bore size.

Assuming you aren't going to bore the block, and you aren't going to get oversize pistons. No oversize rings unless you do all that.
Sup to you. Follow the manufacturers installation instructions, orientation and direction during assembly is critical.

..No difference
Rings can't change the designed compression ratio.
Probably not the safest thing to do if you want it to last a long time IMO.
There's another forum area for building power, check there for ideas.

 
Rep Power: 126

i screwed up the questions on this.. i was at work...let me elaborate..

whats FSM? factory service manual? i would love to have it any free copy anywhere.?

I have rebuild motors before in engineering research..

not in old 300,000 mile motor.

when i did the head gaskets and valves i notices some dimples low spot in the cylinder wall.. cylinderrs were very smooth.... so from experience i just recalled that in my memory at the time i didnt think of anything....

I was asking because i need to measure to make sure whats what and that manual would be nice with the specs...

I would hope i just rering it....



buy rings from ex, i noticed they have higher compression.. is that because of longer strokes, or just cam.. how do they achieve that.. are the blocks exactly the same.?
whats the diffrences? i know they have vtec head.

 
Rep Power: 148

At a minimum, you need to smooth the top ridge and break the glaze with a ball hone. You should measure the wear area at about 1" to make sure it is at least not way past the maximum wear in the service manual. You can get away with a little but don't expect long life. If it's way to worn, it needs bored to the next oversize piston and then honed with stones to finial size and finish. Only then is oversize rings used. Forget the hotrod mods and save your money. This day and time, most overhauls would be another motor unless you can do most of the labor farming out maybe the valve if they need work.

 
Rep Power: 517

YesSearch this forum for 'looking for a 7th gen manual for free' and you should find a thread with links. BE CAREFUL, they seem to be for a worldwide market, not North America. There may be some differences.

There's a difference between a full rebuild and an 'in-frame' re-ring.


The original hone/crosshatch finish should be inspected, "the truth" is in that original finish.

The reason I say this is because any bore distortion should show up as unusual wear of the original crosshatch pattern, that could mean it may need re-bored oversize to make it perfect again.
Vertical scuff marks in the cylinders might be typical from piston thrust, but if you can hang a fingernail in the scratches it could mean you might expect less than optimal oil consumption.

On the other hand, the engine WAS running just fine and all you're worried about correcting is the stuck rings and oil consumption.....it was running on the original cylinders and pistons before you took it apart, it should run again if you put it together right.

Consider a valve job as well?
If it needs bored oversize, that's gonna require a commitment of even more money and time.
A set of 4 standard size pistons and rings through Honda would be over $500 retail, without any other parts.

You can buy these engines with sort of lower mileage for $500 or less all day long. Freshen some gaskets, fresh timing belt, drop it in and drive it again.

Rings can't change the designed compression ratio no matter what.

Pistons are different between engine versions.

The combustion chambers in the cylinder heads COULD be different sizes to achieve some compression ratio change, but I've never compared those side by side myself.....and I don't believe Honda made differences like that in the D17A1 and A2 heads.



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My experience: There won't be any. At worst, there may be a ring of carbon buildup.

Modern engines with low tension and ultra low tension piston rings don't eat up cylinder walls the way many old school engines from the 60s and prior did.

I haven't used my ridge reamer in.....damn, last time I remember needing it was probably more than 25 years ago on an engine that was older than me at that time.


we don't do this when warranty is paying for the ring job, no matter what the mileage is. 250k miles? Slap new rings in and run it. More? Same thing. Customer paying the bill? No different there either, because it works well this way. First oil change after simple rering will be 5000, 7000 miles or whatever, not the 100-500 miles one would want if you rebore anew and have to go through a break in all over again.

I won't use my ball (dingleberry) hone these days unless the cylinder walls are damaged and boring oversize or block replacement is not an option.
Last time it was used was after a spark plug came apart and mutilated the cylinder, piston, head, etc.... that one cylinder got honed out. Plus a warning that it may have oil consumption problems, no way to guarantee against anything that might happen because that engine really should have been replaced to make it right.

You can't precisely control the final finish (you really can't control much of anything) with a dingleberry hone. That can lead to cutting too deep (accelerating ring wear and oil consumption), incorrect crosshatch angles, and if a wall already has low spots the dingleballs just make the low spots deeper as well. (stone hone should have been used if that were the case, as you said...and who has one of those laying around in their garage? Not me.)



My experience:
Practical application: If the original hone (crosshatch) marks are still there, then there is no appreciable bore wear to worry about. That's what I mean by '"the truth" is in that original finish'.

How deep were the scratches of the original honed finish when new? (Guessing) 0.000015" or less? After break in they might be 0.000010" deep now? If the original crosshatch marks are still there, the bore wear is negligible.

I really doubt he's going to be that deep in this. From what I've seen of these engines, I expect there would be no appreciable cylinder wear.


I think at least another 50% could be expected from a quickie in-the-car refresh like this without a problem as long as the rest of the car holds up...
If he got 300k out of the engine already, this work would likely let the engine give at least another 150k of service or more, as long as nothing major lets go like a coolant hose exploding or a fan temp switch lets it overheat.


The 07 Fit I got for the GF got a full set of rings 'slapped in' at 200k, it's currently going about 8k between oil changes without appreciable oil consumption. She drives the snot out of the car and I don't have to worry about it. I don't even need to check the oil when I see it.....but I walk around and look for low tires once in a while LOL. When the maintenance minder pops the wrench light on, it's still got 'enough' oil in it.

 
Rep Power: 148

This is what I learned on and there has not been any room since for anything new..At a 100K the V8 block GM stuff of the 60s would have a .005 or more washed out area at the top of the cylinder before the ridge.

I have only rebuilt one Civic motor and like you said, you could see original cross and only thing at the top was carbon. The cam shaft had broken at the small diameter shoulder at the big belt wheel and indexed bending the valves.