Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues - Honda Civic Forum

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Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

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Old 08-10-2015
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Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

So I'm chasing an issue on a 2005 Honda Civic and its racking my brain. Here's the timeline

Late NOv 2014 - starting having overheating issues, took to first mechanic they swore it was a head gasket, convinced me to dump blue devil in it and replace radiator. $1200 dollars later (yes I know I was overcharged but didn't have time to do it myself) still overheating. Pissed at charge I take it to a second opinion

Blue Devil is the DEVIL, pay new mechanic to replace timing belt, water pump, and head gasket (timing and head because he's already in there). Pressure test cylinder head block, everything is hunky doory.

December - Jan 2015 is when I finally get the car back on the road... Having some back pressure issues but not major. O2 sensors, replace upstream 02 senso

March - we are fine, when I do drive it, drive to work is about 100 miles round trip back and forth. Wife notices small coolant leak during this time, we have some air in the system, do test replace hoses.. still some back pressure issues, but I know my cat is going and I just have to get time to get to it

July - Wife takes car.. car bucks like it cant get air and she freaks out... cat is bad..we replace from Cat to the rear silencer... codes go away. I know I should have done it sooner, I'm active duty and took me some time to get to it

Flushed radiator system this weekend, found 2 more bad hoses going to the throttle body... replaced. Burped system at an incline. Here's the problem.. I still have back pressure and very small bubbles coming out of the radiator. Car doesn't overheat with fans running, just some back pressure.

I am going to test it tonight for exhaust in the coolant and probably pressure test it. Is there something I'm missing? I'm really hoping its not the head as we JUST had it done and the block WAS tested.

Car is fine at the idle, not overheating no leaks into oil, no white smoke etc. I'm thinking its not the heater core unless the blue devil clogged it and that is my issue. Drove to work this morning, no overheating issues highest it got was 225 in the tunnel. Fluid still coming out of the cap (going to pressure test cap tonight in case its bad)

Am I missing something.. thoughts on I'm looking forward to a positive block test tonight?
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Old 08-10-2015
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

This sounds like a bad story starting with the first mekanik.


Blown head gasket is what it sounds like now....
When it was done last time, was the head surface measured for flatness? Was it machined flat?
A warped head will not seal.

If it has been loaded with the Devil, it might be better off to drop in a used engine --- and of course replace the head gasket on the new one and check the head before dropping it in.
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Old 08-11-2015
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

Yes, it was machined and tested. Everything was ok'd by the machine shop. Pressure tested coolant system and cylinders last night... passed much to my and my buddy's surprise.

When I flushed it this weekend I didn't take the bolt out of the engine block. Going to take that bolt out for the stuff in the engine and flush it again with the bolt out.

Whole thing is mind boggling!
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Old 08-11-2015
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

Open the radiator cap and fill to the neck, and pinch off the overflow hose.

Apply 150+ PSI shop air line pressure to each cylinder @TDC while watching for any change in the cooling system level.
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

" Took to first mechanic they swore it was a head gasket, convinced me to dump blue devil in it and replace radiator. $1200 dollars "


Are you saying they charged you $1200 for a $300 radiator, gallon of antifreeze and a can of stop leak?
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

Originally Posted by RIPSAW View Post
" Took to first mechanic they swore it was a head gasket, convinced me to dump blue devil in it and replace radiator. $1200 dollars "


Are you saying they charged you $1200 for a $300 radiator, gallon of antifreeze
Probably a $48 radiator..300 sounds like a OE unit.

and a can of stop leak?
Not just any ordinary stop leak, that's liquid glass and it's not cheap for a hack repair...But if the instructions are not followed to the letter it does not work. (I wonder if that's what happened on the first go around? I also wonder if head gasket failures in these cars leak too slowly for that stuff to work its magic.)


I've witnessed that stuff in action, it can do amazing things (like if you NEED to drive it to the junkyard LOL)
or it can do some real damage (remember "Cash For Clunkers", this is what was used to lock up the engines)
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Old 08-12-2015
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

$60 for a bottle. May work on a water passageway leaking to outside but probably not interlinked to compression area.

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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

To the cost of the bill (rounding here)
$400 for radiator + hoses + thermostat, antifreeze etc
$90 for Blue devil
$150 diagnosis
$500 ish labor

Yes I argued the bill after the fact as it was higher than estimate and the cost of parts were insane. Got me nowhere of course.

No the car will not be going back to that mechanic, I let the friend have it who recommended him. I have the wife still b**ching at me about that bill.

Going to run the pressure test with the 150 psi as suggested see where that gets me.
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Old 08-12-2015
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

Originally Posted by RIPSAW View Post
May work on a water passageway leaking to outside but probably not interlinked to compression area.
Liquid Glass works the opposite of that. It normally won't seal a leak to the outside (temperature usually too low to activate the process) but it will seal up many combustion chamber leaks due to the high temperature in the area of combustion leakage.

From Wiki:
"Liquid glass" (sodium silicate) is added to the system through the radiator, and allowed to circulate. Sodium silicate is suspended in the coolant until it reaches the cylinder head. At 100–105C, sodium silicate loses water molecules to form a glass seal with a remelt temperature above 810C.


A sodium silicate repair can last two years or longer. The repair occurs rapidly, and symptoms disappear instantly. This repair only works when the sodium silicate reaches its "conversion" temperature at 100–105C. Contamination of engine oil is a serious possibility in situations in which a coolant-to-oil leak is present. Sodium silicate (glass particulate) contamination of lubricants is detrimental to their function.


My understanding is ......if you read the instructions in the Blue Devil stuff-- because I did not......., they want you to drain all the antifreeze out and use plain water during the "treatment" (and maybe leave the radiator cap off too). This liquid glass stuff has to boil its water out in order to work its magic, and antifreeze (and pressure) raises the boiling point of water.
So if mechanic #1 did not do this right then it would not work.





And on C4C:
Sodium silicate solution is used to inexpensively, quickly, and permanently disable automobile engines. Running an engine with about 2 liters of a sodium silicate solution instead of motor oil causes the solution to precipitate, catastrophically damaging the engine's bearings and pistons within a few minutes.[12] In the United States, this procedure was used to comply with requirements of the Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS) program.[12][13]
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Re: Help Appreciated! - Chasing Mechanical Issues

Originally Posted by USCGBM View Post
To the cost of the bill (rounding here)
$400 for radiator + hoses + thermostat, antifreeze etc
$90 for Blue devil
$150 diagnosis
$500 ish labor

Yes I argued the bill after the fact as it was higher than estimate and the cost of parts were insane. Got me nowhere of course.

No the car will not be going back to that mechanic, I let the friend have it who recommended him. I have the wife still b**ching at me about that bill.

Going to run the pressure test with the 150 psi as suggested see where that gets me.
USCGBM , guess that does NOT look too out of reason since they at least replaced it all. especially if it had worked.

THANKS EZONE FOR THE IN DEPTH ON THE BLUEDEVIL.
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