Rep Power: 0

I've been trying this civic EX 2 door coupe with a 4 speed automatic transmission since I bought it in February 2003. It has 192,000 miles. It's been a great car all these years with maintenance performed on schedule at my honda dealer. I had the cam shaft position sensor replaced in August (as the car started stalling in hot weather and throwing that code). That fixed the stalling, but something new is evolving. I think something abnormal is going on with the gear shifts between gears 2 through 4. No engine codes yet. Here are my anecdotal observations:

All these 'issues' appear to be progressing slightly.

There have been no issues in 1st gear or reverse. Those gears work exactly as intended with no signs of slipping (yet). The car also starts in 2nd gear '2' mode equally well without slipping.

The change in the feel of shifting has been slow over the years, but it feels like degradation is progressing logarithmically over the last few months. So much so, that i'm worried enough to start looking into it (and discovering the horror stories with this type of car). I fear imminent issues or problems with the automatic transmission. So much for 'run forever' hondas....


for reference, i've attached a photo of the ATF dipstick fluid sample from a cold engine (~12 hours rest). There appears to be some 'ATF meringue' whipped up into a foam on the rubber stopper. I hadn't noticed that before when checking ATF in the past. The fluid level looks normal, but not as red as I'd expect it to be. Last drain was ~10k miles ago earlier this year at the dealership.

What should I do with this car? I want to keep it for another 100k miles if possible.

Is there anything preventative I can/should do? Or should i just drive it and wait for the failure of the transmission? If this happens, where should i have the work done, downtime, cost, and what kind of life expectancy is there on new/rebuilt transmissions? In general, i don't want to play dice every time I drive this car.

Some people describe replacing the ATF fluid and seeing if that changes anything.

For reference, the car:

It's technically my 2nd car (owned my 1st for about a month prior to buying this honda).

Thank you for your insight and observations.

 
Rep Power: 149

If at all possible, replace the transmission fluid. I think what you are describing is called flaring. Years ago, I had a 1985 Civic Sedan. At around 80K, I put some AutoZone Dexron ATF in it simple because I had a case left over from fixing leaks in a Firebird. At 90K, on a trip, it starting flaring and shortly would not upshift 1 to 2. I thought transmission was done. When I dumped fluid, you could tell it was way too thick. Guess from heat, improper fluid or both. New Honda fluid fixed it up. It was a long way from 190K. And forget Honda's run forever. Just ask a few older Odyssey owners. Click on the following two threads....

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...id-change.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...vic-coupe.html

 
Rep Power: 518

I think you described shift flare, and the 100 RPM pulsations made me think of TCC stick/slip-- maybe roughly in 3 to 5 second cycles?

It made it nearly 200,000 on the original trans, that was a good one.
Time for another trans when this one lets go.

My preference would be a factory reman through a dealership with a warranty good at any Honda dealership nationwide.

 
Rep Power: 0

Thank you for your insight.

In response to the TCC stick/slip questions: The RPM meandering (~200rpm) effect does seem to happen on an irregular cycle anywhere from 2 to 5 seconds. It's particularly evident in D4 w/ overdrive anywhere from 30 to 50MPH. I cannot perceive jerkyness and can barely perceive the engine noise difference. Anything above 50mph doesn't induce the effect. It does not happen in D3, even when cold. Furthermore, this effect only seems to happen when the engine is cold. After a 10+ minute run, the effect seems to disappear. So you think the Torque converter is failing to stick correctly?

In general, the transmission behaves better when warm.

I'll get the fluid swapped out with genuine atf-z1 (or atf-dw1). Hopefully the tech will observe the magnetic plug and fluid consistency. Supposedly the rep at the honda dealership will give me an indication whether or not the transmission needs to be replaced.

Should i just go ahead and get the transmission and/or torque converter serviced or replaced? With issues like this, could i expect 100, 1k, 10k, or 50k miles left in this transmission? Is it likely to fail all at once or give me enough time/miles to bring it in?

I really don't want to find myself on the side of the road /w an issue like this in west texas and depending on honest work from whichever roadside mechanic is nearby.

Again, thank you for the info.

 
Rep Power: 518

I was just guessing the lockup clutch in the torque converter, sounds like your description. Actual cause could be many different things.
D3 changes the shift program, TCC is not applied at the same times as in D (or D4) so it makes a noticeable difference.


DW1 is the only fluid now. Z1 is obsolete.

The mag plug always has fur stuck to it if it's got any miles on it since the last service.

Only if they notice it acting up. If it's fine when they drive it, nobody will notice anything wrong.
I can't predict the future. LOL
Lunch is over, gotta run

 
Rep Power: 0

I also took it to the dealership for a diagnostic. They drove it and couldn't reproduce the shift flare. The car has been rock solid when warm recently. Shift flare only seems to happen when cold now. I've been reading about this; transmission replacement isn't the end of the world. I've asked around a few of the local shops. Some offer rebuilds, others swap out /w refurb. The dealership offers refurbish with 36k/3years for $3200. Some of the local rebuild offers are similar warranties, but between $1000 to $2000. About a week in down time; easily covered by a rental. Then there's these guys that offer a 100k/5 year re-furb supposedly: http://transmissionsexpress.com/Tran...smissions.html I'm going to keep calling around for quotes. In the meantime, i'll drain/refill the transmission fluid once or twice with ATF-DW1 (that's a cheap enough placebo).

Could all this shift flare possibly be the shift solenoid? Some mechanically minded friends suggested that. Easy enough test: http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/hon...-and-B-tests-1

I think i'll drive this civic until something else major happens (hopefully a year or two on a new transmission).

 
Rep Power: 518

Some people here have the shift flare and just keep on driving. Some baby the gas pedal during the shifts so it doesn't flare, and keep on driving.
Some panic.
I can't tell you if it's gonna poop right away or not.


Many of the solenoids have a tiny little filter screen that could be partially clogged. Could be worth investigating. Solenoids may be fine but a clogged screen can make a clutch (or whatever) slow to apply. OTOH, could be a worn clutch pack. Could be any number of different causes.


You sure? Most dealers don't overhaul these. Maybe a few do but it isn't the norm.

A factory reman trans is supposed to have all the updated and improved stuff installed, all the fixes for all the problems the early trannys suffered from.

We usually only have to keep the car overnight if the reman trans gets ordered before cutoff time.

 
Rep Power: 0

The original transmission finally let go at 247k miles. Honestly the failure was sudden... within the first slip from 2nd gear to basically failure within 150 miles. A high pitch whine pretty closely matched to engine RPM evolved during this period. There are still no engine codes or 'flashing D' but pretty obviously in failure. Doesn't want to enter 2nd or 3rd, slips in 2nd.

The car is located in New Orleans, LA. Any suggested, reputable shops in the area? I have had work done at AGCO automotive in Baton Rouge, but a tow would probably be expensive.

Any idea what this would cost? I'm seeing ~$1600 for a rebuilt transmission from portlandtorque.com plus shipping plus labor plus towing. ...or it it is insanity to put a new transmission on a 15 year old car with the original engine ? It still doesn't burn oil, eat coolant, and the AC works great. The suspension has been replaced and new enough tires. It is still in great cosmetic shape. The only rust i can find is on the exhaust system. The headliner could use some work though.

The alternative is a new Honda or Toyota maybe a Hyundai. Very skeptical of used cars in this market. Lots of flooding around here. May buy pricing info from fightingchance, I was not impressed with quotes from earlier this year. I can afford it, but i really like this 03 Honda.

 
Rep Power: 518

So it went 55k after you noticed it flaring between shifts, that's pretty good.
And....You've racked up 55k in about 2.5 years....that's a lot of driving IMO.

You have to justify the cost to yourself......and I would not cheap out on something as critical as a transmission. Will the car last as long as another transmission?

Check into a genuine Honda reman trans (first choice for me)
H&A reman (hnatrans.com) supplied to your favorite shop (2nd choice for me)
Jasper engines and transmissions
And maybe a local trans shop rebuild, just for kicks (not my preference, too much risk unless you're going to dump the car immediately)
"Used" is another option as well.

Always check out the warranties. Length of time, miles, and where it can be taken care of if (when) it goes to crap.
If you ever leave town you want a warranty that is good nationwide, you do not want to be stuck with paying to have the dead car towed from two states away to the shop that did the work.

You racked up 55k in 2.5 years...Even more than a good warranty, you WANT a damn reliable transmission regardless of the warranty.

(Much like cheapo Chinazone parts store parts, the lifetime warranty doesn't make their parts any less crappy nor more reliable.)