Rep Power: 0

Hey,
So first some background information about my car.
- Engine replaced with a japengine (55k miles) in May 2014.
- New water pump, gaskets, and thermostat in May 2014.
- I drive my car Monday - Friday, to and from work. I will sometimes go to the store but not often. I very, VERY rarely go out (once a month if that) so my car really only gets driven to and from work.
- All Honda parts.

Now to my problem...

I first started noticing my car overheating when it randomly had a very rough cold start when I got off work one day. Basically the car shook hard as if it wanted to die than ran like normal. This rough start would happen sporadically once or twice a week. The rough start has completely stopped now though. However, the overheating still persists.

The next day I was driving to work on the interstate doing about 55 mph on a ramp to notice my temperature gauge completely pegged out. Pulled over immediately, shut the car down, and called a tow truck.

The mechanic immediately suspected a blown head gasket so he did a chemical test on my coolant and ran a couple other tests which all checked out fine. They couldn't reproduce the problem.

I took my car back to have it immediately overheat while driving back home from work again (that same day I got my car back from the mechanic!).

I gave it back to them. They drove it for an entire week and couldn't reproduce the overheating. I took it back and it overheated again!

This time I took the car to my dad (he is a Snap On dealer now but use to be a body man for 30 years) since he was there when the mechanic first looked at my car. I drove him from his house (close to mine) to downtown where I work, guess what happened? Car overheats. He gets to see it peg out. However, he received a call plus it was really late and I still had my son so I had to go home anyways, which means he never got to look at it.

I have been driving my car since dealing with the overheating issue. It doesn't overheat every day and honestly when it does I am already at my destination so I make it just in time before it pegs out.

Items worth mentioning:
- Temperature rises faster when I accelerate. I accelerate A LOT because I work downtown, lots of stop lights, stop and go traffic. This stop and go traffic is where my car usually begins to overheat.
- Temperature very, very slowly rises when idle.
- While in park, revving engine to 2k RPM slowly drops the temperature.

However! Today while driving it to work the car began overheating WAY earlier than normal. I had to pull over before I even hit the highway as the temperature even went beyond the highest point. When pulling over and sitting idle, the temperature went down immediately!? Jumped on the highway, temperature remains normal until I get to my off ramp to merge to another highway (driving 55 mph) where the temperature again pegs out, but goes down once I hit the straight road on the highway. I drove the rest of the way to work with the temperature at 4/5 to the top.

Please help me....

 
Rep Power: 518

The overheat is due to low coolant level in the radiator.
Where did it go?
That head gasket is blown....and possibly warped the head.



You tell about all the overheat events, but I don't see one mention of checking the coolant in the radiator or the reservoir.
Haven't you refilled the radiator?

 
Rep Power: 0

The mechanic checked for a blown head gasket but concluded it was not. The engine is new so I wouldn't think the head would be warped already? Plus the head gasket was replaced when I replaced the engine.

Also, the mechanic checked the coolant levels in the radiator and the resevior which were all at optimal levels. The last time I brought it in I had him specifically check ALL fluid levels again just to be on the safe side. They were all at optimal levels too.

I am at work right now but I will go outside during my lunch to check the coolant levels.

Also, if the coolant levels were low wouldn't the car overheat especially at idle? I stated yesterday that the car was overheating while moving, pulled over, didn't shut the car off but let it idle and the temperature immediately dropped?

 
Rep Power: 518

Not a reliable test IMO unless it's a huge leak. Most of these will pass that test while the leakage is small.

I apply shop air line pressure directly to each cylinder and watch for change or activity in the cooling system. Any activity (rise or bubbles, no matter how slow) means a breach of the combustion chamber area.


I don't remember that info in the OP (I saw the words "all gaskets" but wasn't clear). How many miles since then?

All it takes is a severe overheat event to trash both, no matter how new it is.

Many parts of your OP description fit the typical blown head gasket scenario, save for the coolant level being correct.
Usually these displace liquid out of the radiator and make the reservoir fill or overflow as coolant is displaced.
OK that's handy info.... Let me rethink then......
Depends on load and ambient conditions. More load = more heat to dissipate. Less load = less heat to dissipate.

Got GREAT heat output from the heater with the fan on full blast?
How about if you let it idle a few minutes, still got great heat?

Do both of the radiator fans run while the gauge shows overheating? Are they actualy pulling hot air from the radiator when they run?
Thermostat not opening all the way?
Blocked or clogged fins in the radiator and condenser cores?




Overheating complaint plus 'very rough cold start' makes me first think of coolant entering a cylinder overnight, as in head gasket leakage.



I've seen the head gaskets bad before they hit 50k. Some died while still within factory warranty.

 
Rep Power: 0

How much does this cost to do?

I had the new engine for about 4k miles, enough for one oil change. I have never let the car completely overheat for a prolonged period of time though. I have only had the car completely peg out three times and during those times for less than 30 seconds.

I am not too sure about this. It is extremely hot where I am so I am not even sure how I could accurately test this? What is "GREAT" heat? So hot it is scorching the hair off your arm? Or as hot as a normal car outputs heat from the vents?

One time I popped the hood to check to see if both fans were running and they were. I just checked to see if the fans looked dirty in anyway and they look pretty clean. The exterior of the motor in general is extremely clean actually (the new parts at least). Let me know if you meant something different for "clogged."

I am not sure where the "condenser core" is or what that does?

Also, I just checked the coolant levels in both the reservoir and the radiator. (I think)

The radiator looked like it had some? When I opened the silver oval cap off, there was neon green looking liquid under the cap and in the radiator. The level wasn't extremely high though? However, I do NOT know what a "normal" coolant level looks? Is it suppose to be completely full of liquid to the brim of the cap? If that is the case it is extremely low.

The reservoir? If that is the white, long, and skinny container behind the radiator (towards the engine) than it looked pretty empty? I couldn't really tell since it goes WAY down deep practically towards the ground (I am a white collar, so dress shirts = cannot be dirty) so I couldn't really look at it. Is that suppose to be full to the top of the cap too?

 
Rep Power: 518

Depends.


All it takes is once.... and "pegged" sounds damn serious.



Ok so, engine has like 55k on it, AND it got a head gasket already (Are you really certain of this?) What else was done at that time--head checked for warpage? The head gasket cannot seal if the head surface is not perfectly flat.

Now you have 4k on this engine since installation.
AND it's been overheated.


Depends on your personal pain threshold....


If the heater core has an airlock (air pocket will block some of the liquid antifreeze flow) in it, the heater output is usually very good while driving and RPMs are up, but when you stop and idle for a few minutes, the heater output temperature cools off considerably.
This is very noticeable in the winter, but nobody would ever find this out in the summer unless prompted to look for it.

Good, I guess.
AC was not running at this time?
Nothing to do with the fans.
I meant the fins of the radiator and condenser.
The fins you can see when you look through the big gaps in the front bumper.
200,000+ miles of bugs and dirt can and will clog those fins, reducing or blocking airflow through the pair of heat exchangers.

The AC condenser sits in front of the radiator. When you look through the big holes in the front bumper, the condenser is what you see. The radiator is about one inch behind it.
You think? You don't know? (Owners manual FTW)
The fluid level inside the radiator is supposed to be completely full all the way up to the cap, at all times.

These engines can run hot with less than a quart of fluid missing from the radiator.

That sounds like the reservoir, and no it's not supposed to be full. There are max and min lines on the plastic, the level should be between those when the engine is cold. (And radiator is completely full.) The fluid level in the reservoir changes as the engine heats up and cools down, so it can't be completely full.

(When the head gasket is blown, one thing most people notice is an overflowing reservoir AND low radiator level.)

Get a good flashlight, you should be able to figure out where the liquid level is. Shine the light inside the top, shake the bottle, watch the sides for liquid movement.

That's no excuse....Get out of the dress shirt.

I can't figure out why everyone else gets dirty when working on cars.
Many days, I could fix cars while wearing a damn suit (not kidding, I really have done it). A dark colored suit, but still a suit.



HTH

 
Rep Power: 518

Radiator fins (random google pics)



Condenser



All (or the majority) of the little bitty fins need to be straight, not folded over, and be clean enough to have good air flow through.

If you could shine a flashlight or hang a droplight on one side, you should be able to easily see light through all areas of the fins of both heat exchangers.





Wash (rinse) with a garden hose from the rear (engine compartment area) toward the front of the car.
Same as homeowners are supposed to do with the central AC unit outside, clean that thing every year.

This little hose attachment looks handy:


Air flow is how heat is exchanged form the liquid inside to the ambient air.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

I will double check the report I got with the parts replaced but I am pretty sure the head gasket was replaced. Either that or the oil gasket? Both sound familiar.

Also, what exactly were you trying to insinuate with the "4k on this engine since installation AND it's been overheated?"

So I guess I am just checking to see if the heater is consistently hot while the car is in motion or idling? I will check that tomorrow on my way to work.

AC was running, but when the AC runs the fans would usually kick on and off correct? The fans consistently stayed on.

I will check both sets of fins tomorrow morning before I head off to work.

Sounds like I need to buy some coolant tomorrow to fill up my radiator to the top.

When I fill the radiator do I need to fill the reservoir too or will the excess from the radiator just spill over there?

Lol, I did all of this stuff at the end of my lunch which means I don't have a whole lot of time to spend on this. I will have more time this weekend though.

As noted in my responses above I plan on gathering most of the information tomorrow before and on my way to work and will post once I get there.

Food for thought question though, I also have a 2006 Mazda RX-8 where I just replaced the engine, clutch, and steering column in it. I lost faith in the reliability of that car which is why I repaired my old Honda. However, I am beginning to question just how much more money I should dump into this Honda. I have already spent $3.5k on repairing it to get where it is now.

I am almost tempted to dump the Honda and take my chances with my RX-8 despite the horrendous gas mileage difference between the two cars.

Thoughts?

 
Rep Power: 518

Now you're not sure the head gasket was actually replaced?
I could definitely see that during an engine replacement, because anyone that isn't intimately familiar with these would likely only replace the rubber gaskets and rubber parts, not the head gasket at this seemingly low mileage.

Most of your descriptions still lead me to want to do my checks for a blown head gasket first (if it were in my bay at work), no matter if it was already replaced or not.
If it was replaced, there's a lot of places the installer could have erred, and if it really wasn't done that could certainly explain why it's doing what it's doing now.
Plus the overheat event can cause damage by itself.
Not insinuating.
Trying to put the facts in one post that I can read, because I'm posting in most of the threads on this forum and it's hard to keep them all straight sometimes.


Pretty much.

Both the coolant temperature and the AC system have control of the fan operation. Either can turn the fans on as needed.

Radiator filled to the top, hopefully get the system burped of any trapped air, and find the min/max lines on the reservoir bottle and put the coolant level between the two.

See if the radiator cap holds pressure too. Will the parts store check it for you?
Did the engine cash out at about 80,000 miles?

I spent 10 years with a Mazda dealer.
I loved them at the time, had a few of them.
Still have a B2000, pics are in my profile somewhere.

I think the rotary engines are far too finicky for the average appliance users. Should never have been released to the general population, should have been kept on the race track. 2nd gen RX7 and newer seemed to have far too short lifespan, 80k replacements seemed to be the norm for most 86 and newer. Killer power potential, but short life.
I don't do numbers, I'm in the wrong end of the business for that. I don't place a dollar value on cars the way most other people do.

You state a dollar figure spent, and I wonder what the hell you bought for that. I always forget just how expensive paid labor can be.

I would want a spare car if I had to rely on the RX, because I know you can't rely on a Rotor Motor to always be there for you when you need it.

I'd take the Honda, knowing I can fix damn near anything that goes wrong with it (except for rust).

IMO Mazda has gone downhill in several areas since I got out of that dealership. Maybe I just don't like the Ford products they use and sell.... and I know I really dislike Ford engineering. I'm glad I don't have to deal with them now.

Todays issue (rant)-- I had a 04 turbo Miata in for a timing belt job and it needed a water pump: I have serious issues with Mazdas reman water pumps (at least for the real Mazda products), I have done several that didn't last through the full year warranty period, with even more that failed soon after the warranty was up. Same crummy reman pump from an aftermarket supplier was about 1/3 of the price of the dealer pump. It's getting to the point that I don't even want to do the work just because I can't control the quality of the parts, and I'd much rather the customer be pissed off at someone else when the parts fail far too soon. JMO.

 
Rep Power: 0

Alright, list of repairs done on my Honda since April 28, 2014:
- Engine (Japengine, 55k miles)
- EGR Gasket
- Exhaust Manifold Gasket
- Intake Gasket Set
- Thermostat Gasket
- Water Outlet Gasket
- Filter Seal
- Gasket (that is all it says on that line lol)
- Engine Mount
- Sway Bar Link
- Battery
- AC Compressor
- AC Flush
- Expansion Valve
- Receiver Dryer
- AC Oil
- Front-Right Tie Rod Boot
- Tie Rod End
- Both Front Lower Ball Joints
- Front Stabilizer Bushings
- Both front brakes
- Cleaned back brakes

I had the heater on this morning and the air was consistently blowing hot with no fluctuations in temperature.

Also, the fins looked ok. There were a good portion bent, but overall it is really clean and there are definitely more good fins than bent ones.

When you say "hopefully get the system burped of any trapped air." What do you mean by that exactly? Am I suppose to do anything special besides unscrew the oval radiator cap, pour 50/50 coolant, close radiator cap. Rinse and repeat for radiator reservoir?

Also, do I literally just walk up to somewhere like Autozone or OReily's and ask them to check my radiator cap pressure? I need to know what to say exactly.

You nailed it lol. Right now the car is sitting on 87k in my moms garage not being driven.

Repairs listed above. I am seriously just tired of spending $500 every other month just on car repairs. That has seriously how this entire year has been and it is killing my checking account!

 
Rep Power: 518

Well, that's real informative (on the part of the shop). Got a part number or anything else that might identify it?


Give this thread a read:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...reference.html


*ahem*
"Can you test my radiator cap?"

I have no idea if they can test it or not...it was an idea.
The radiator must be able to hold pressure in order to raise the boiling point of the liquid inside (basic laws of Physics), and that is the job of the radiator cap. If the cap can't seal correctly or otherwise fails to contain and regulate pressure........ the antifreeze could boil.


Now how did I guess that?
Needs an engine every 80k, and you think it's a good car?

Back when the twin turbos were the hot ticket, many of their engines got replaced before warranty ran out.

It was probably just time to spend money on it.
The car probably went the first 200k with not much more than oil changes, brakes, tires and a timing belt.

Why did the original engine get replaced?

 
Rep Power: 0

Almost all the fins behind the open part in my grill are folded over but everything behind the bumper cover looks great. Would it be a bad idea to straighten the bent ones with a pick? I don't have any temp problems.

 
Rep Power: 518

HEY! You aren't the OP.

You can try, it's a tedious task. Don't poke holes in the core though, it'll get expensive in a hurry.

General road debris coming through the open areas is what folds the fins over.

 
Rep Power: 0

Sorry. It was related though.

Yeah I had a bee massacre a few weeks ago. I'm still finding them stuck in things.

 
Rep Power: 518

No biggie, just givin you static.
You MONSTER! Bees are our friends!





*hugs a beehive*
OUCH

 
Rep Power: 0

There are tools to do this:



which kinda sorta make this less tedious. But if you have a lot of rock hits chances are you'll have to individually pick open each air path anyway, then use the comb to make them even. Used them on moto rads... they work *ehh*...

But it's better than a whole corner of your rad having no flow-through... my old Paseo rad split a crimp about ten years ago, and when I pulled it the whole bottom half was nearly completely blocked by folded fins, plus road crap (mine was fiber like hair??? mixed with twigs and rocks). New rad showed same on gauge, but pulled better everywhere, even in the same broiling Phoenix heat (coolant wasn't that old, either).

Stock gauges damp temp changes to prevent owners from freaking out when the car goes through routine temp fluctuations... so a change of 75 degF (per ezone) won't even show up on the 7th gen gauges, masking any loss of cooling efficiency. If I could bring my racebike's temp down 75 full degF... I'd be going from tenth to fourth on the podium.

 
Rep Power: 518

I think that thing works better on a central air condenser than a car condenser.

I thought 75 sounded high so I went back and looked..... Then tried to find a copy on the net I could link, but the PDF link is dead.

Copy

this Honda Service News Article from Feb 2010, which states

http://dvpatel.homelinux.com/forumfiles/SN/A100200.pdf


Currently Applies To: All Models
- Temperature Gauge Reads Low When It's Cold Outside -
In very cold weather, your customer might notice that the engine temperature gauge appears to reach the normal operating level a little slower than it would in warm temperatures. This slower movement shouldnt be mistaken for a bad thermostat or any other cooling system problem, as this is typical operation of the temperature gauge. This is because the temperature gauge doesnt operate in a linear fashion like a fuel level gauge does. Check out the example below of this logic shown on a 2006-10 Civic:

(Original article showed 8th gen digital gauge)

Gauge segment 1 doesnt show until engine temperature reaches approximately 132°F or 56°C.
Gauge segments 2-9 are approximately 138-165°F or 59-74°C.
Gauge segments 9-11 Normal operating range is 170-222°F or 77-106°C.
Gauge segments 12-20 are approximately 228-249°F or 109-121°C.
Gauge segments 21-22 are approximately 255°F or 124°C.




So I gather from that, the middle of the gauge where the needle always sits can be anywhere from 165 to 228 F, with very little movement to freak out the user.

 
Rep Power: 0

No part number. That is literally all that was on the sheet they gave me.

So, I went into O'Reily's to ask them to run a radiator cap pressure test. The kid (he was my age) said he would do it, but he asked why. Never say "some guy on the internet told me to" lol! Every person in that store stopped talking and working to literally look at me xD.

He was about to do it but his manager said no since it is a liability. I can only rent it, which I wasn't going to do in my suit (I know, I know).

I said it was a good car? If I could sell the car right now, I would. Trust me, that car is the reason why I have this Honda still.

I had this Honda when I was 17 and neglected to keep up the oil level so it blew a rod. Well it didn't but the mechanic said it was about to. He gave it two weeks so I stopped driving it.

Btw, I just filled my coolant level in my radiator only (I couldn't see how much was in the reservoir) on Friday after work. I went to the movies Friday night and have NOT drove the car since (no life remember?). I literally just checked the coolant level's and the radiator is empty but the reservoir is two inches from the cap! WAY above full.

Is that normal?

Also, my dad just told me I have a six month warranty on this engine, which means I have two months left to figure this problem out!

 
Rep Power: 518

IF the radiator cap and the rest of that system is working properly, then you have a common symptom of a blown head gasket.

 
Rep Power: 0

I did feel bad about the bees, but I figured they must have been high on GMO corn if they decided to take a drive down the highway.

It was definitely tedious. I straightened about half of all the bent pins which was maybe around 1/4 of the front panel but then I got tired so I stopped. Is it just the placebo effect or would that actually make my cabin air a little cooler. When I have just the blower on set to cold it doesn't feel quite as warm as it used to. Or maybe it's just not as hot today.

 
Rep Power: 518

Since this wasn't scientific, I'll say 'maybe'. Restoring airflow through the condenser should restore its efficiency at heat transfer though.