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My troubles started while driving on the highway nearby my house. The car felt like it missed once then the battery light came on for about a second then it went off and the MIL came on. Symptoms that I had included: 1) Loss of most power, 2) Tach stopped working, 3) Temp gauge stopped working. I limped the car back to my house a couple miles away. I hooked up my OBD scan tool but even though the MIL is illuminated there is no code.

Here are some other symptoms: If I turn the key to the II position but don't start the car, the Park indicator is lit and the Drive indicator is very slowly blinking with a clicking under the hood and the shifter that matches the blinking. After 30 seconds or so, the blinking and clicking stops and the battery light goes out but the MIL and oil pressure light stay illuminated. If I try to start the car at this point, the car cranks but does not turnover. If I turn the car ignition off and then back on and try to start it, the car starts right up. At this point the battery light is illuminated and the engine revs between a stall and ~2100 RPMs. Every time the car is about to stall the MIL illuminates for a split second then goes off and the engine revs up to ~2100 RPMs. After 30-45 seconds the engine levels off, the battery light turns off, the MIL illuminates (it doesn't go back out), the Tach stops working, and the Temp Gauge stops working.

I've tried several times to pull a DTC but there isn't one in spite of the MIL being illuminated.

The only thing I have tried to do to correct the problem is to replace the negative battery cable because there was a ton of corrosion around the battery post and both the ground on the chassis and the ground on the engine. This did not correct or alter the issue.

Here are some other details about the car:
2003 Honda Civic EX
~145k miles
Timing belt and water pump changed around 95k miles (plus coolant and upper and lower hoses)
Recently (2-3 weeks ago) did a 3x transmission fluid change and used Honda ATF
Recently (a little more than a week ago) I replaced the O2 sensor just as a preventative maintenance measure.
Oil was changed ~1500 miles ago.
Air filter replaced about ~500 miles ago.
Spark plugs were changed with NTKs about 20k miles ago

Any help on what to do next is greatly appreciated.

 
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Just to be clear MIL = Malfunction Indicator Light = Check Engine Light *not* maintenance required light.

 
Rep Power: 518

The symptoms scream that the PCM might now be toast.

Possible cause might have been
the alternator mounting bolts were left loose from the last service, or
the ground cable problem you fixed could have been the cause

 
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A couple of updates:

1) The D light no longer blinks
2) When the car is revving between a stall and ~2100 RPMs The MIL illuminates for a split second then the RPMs drop to almost a stall. When the MIL illuminates I hear a clicking in the area around the shifter. This is the same as before, I just wanted to clarify what was happening because I was tired when I posted last night.
3) I started the car today and tried to shift it into gear; when I did this the car went hard into Reverse. I immediately shifted it back into Park.

 
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Thanks for the response!

None of the symptoms went away when I replaced the ground cable. Could that have really been the cause? How can I test the PCM to see if it is toast or not?

 
Rep Power: 518

In a basic sense, you determine that the vast majority of your symptoms originate within the PCM, (which appears to have gone brain dead). Then the bulletin tells to check for powers and grounds at the PCM connectors before condemning it.


See the link in this post: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...ml#post4641973



Do a search here for "loose alternator bolts" and read about all the various symptoms that might go along with the toasted PCM problem. There are more than just what that bulletin above states.

 
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Will do. I will read those two threads and be back. Thank you. I appreciate your help and time!

 
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Does anyone know what the bolt in the middle of this picture is? It is on the front side of the alternator? This might be the root cause of my car issues. It is completely loose. I can barely get my arm in there to touch it but it is completely loose and just hanging there.

 
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EZ - if I need to replace the ECU what is the best option outside paying ~$500 for a brand new OEM one? How are the aftermarket ones? I saw advanced had aftermarket ones for ~$200. Also, I saw on the other threads you pointed me to (Thanks, again!) that people were finding used ECUs on e-bay and at junkyards. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 
Rep Power: 518

That's part of the adjuster assembly. Yes, it's not right. You need to get under the alternator and see if the rest of the bracket and stuff is also not properly installed or missing bolts or whatever.


Yes, that is a likely cause of the whole mess, as described in the bulletin. Check the OTHER alternator bolt too, the big one on top.


Can't tell you about used or aftermarket parts. Any will need programmed before it will run. A brand new PCM might give a few free starts before locking you up, that's so you can drive it to the dealer for programming.

 
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By adjuster assembly, do you mean the tension adjustment bolt on the alternator? If so, how in the hell does that thing come loose like that?

I'll be disconnecting the PS pump tomorrow to get in there. Thanks again; I appreciate it.

 
Rep Power: 518

Yes


Get under it and figure that out.
Pull the tire off if necessary, pull the plastic splash liner out of the way, SEE (and touch, feel) the bottom half of the alternator and the rest of the bracket in question.

 
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Crap! That means the belt is probably loose as ****! It could have come off! Thanks for the response!

 
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EZ - it was the Alternator Lock Bolt; it is missing. The belt was completely loose and has a little glaze on it but otherwise in great condition. I am replacing the belt. Any idea what size the bolt is? I am looking online now but haven't found it.

 
Rep Power: 518

Alt bracket and hardware, # 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 20,
Not all are labeled with sizes





linky
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...UNTING+BRACKET

 
Rep Power: 186

WTF! Mine is has a wing bolt on my car for piece #12. Is that something that Honda changed at some point?

 
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Thanks, EZ! I appreciate it!

Mine is a wingnut also.

 
Rep Power: 186

Really? It doesn't look like that from the pictures you posted.

 
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You are right. I had a few to drink tonight and it is late. The PS adjuster on my car is a wingnut. The alternator adjuster is not. :-)

 
Rep Power: 186

No problem. I'm guessing 01-02 civic's had the wing bolt and then Honda decided an actual bolt was better for tensioning that belt.

 
Rep Power: 518

Man, just worry about making your car leak oil.










I've seen both....Don't know when or where because it does not matter and I can deal with either one. But I much prefer the hex on it.

 
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One update: #13 sheered off; that is what caused the problem I have. I don't know what caused it sheer off but I need to remove the remainder of it from the car.

Also, when I took off the driver's side wheel, I noticed that the seal on the driver's side arm is starting to dry out. Is there anything that I can put on it to prolong its life? If not, should I just replace it?

 
Rep Power: 518

If it broke off and there is still a chunk in the ear of the alternator, I'd probably pull the alt up and out of the engine bay and work with it on a bench to extract the broken piece.

If #13 just pulled the threads out of the alt ear.....I might get a longer bolt and use a nut on the back side of it.
Ball joint?
You can buy replacement rubber boot. Look in the catalogs.

 
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So, I got the sheered off bolt out (#13 in the engine diagram 8 posts above). I replaced the bolt with a new one and replaced the power steering belt and serpentine belt plus I flushed and replaced the power steering fluid while I had it disconnected.

I restarted the car with the same symptoms as before. Battery light still on and the same fluctuating RPM gauge followed by part of the gauge cluster going dead...in essence the same symptoms as before. Does this mean my PCM is fried?


Yes, the ball joint rubber boot (part #12) is looking pretty old and worn out. It is on my list of things to-do.

 
Rep Power: 518

It might be pushed to the bottom once you figure out how much the current problem is gonna cost.

I'd think so, but a few other things first:

WAs the upper alternator bolt loose too? I'd think it was since you said the belt came loose.

Is the alternator belt now properly tight? IF it is loose, that would keep the alt from charging.


Next....
Make sure the battery is charged up.
Disconnect the 4 wire plug from the alternator (to disable charging),
run the engine and see if the symptoms are still present.
(I've never tried this, I'm just curious as to what happens.)



If the symptoms are still present, then I'd think the PCM is toast. Even though the original cause may have been corrected, this damage is done....collateral damage.

But refer to the bulletin info, and a wiring diagram to inspect PCM powers and grounds before condemning the PCM.

HTH

 
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I charged the battery right after all this happened, however, I connected it to the charger and will charge it over night just in case.

The upper bolt was not loose. Just #13 was sheered off. This caused the tension to be completely off the belt and it was just draped over the 3 pulley wheels.

I'll verify 100% that the belt is tight enough tomorrow when I start the car up.

Thanks!

 
Rep Power: 518

I meant make sure the battery is strong before unplugging the alternator, since it won't charge that way.

If you are gonna charge overnight, put it on the lowest amp/12v setting.

 
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I trickle charged it. It was actually close to fully charged already because I charged the battery right after this issue cropped up when I realized the alternator belt was on without tension.

The new alternator belt is on there with enough tension now. Tomorrow I will disconnect the 4 wire plug from the alternator when it is light out. I had to work late tonight. I was able to check the belt tension first thing this morning before going to work.

 
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Well, I had to go out of town for about 3+ weeks on business so the car really hasn't been touched. I started the car up today and measured the voltage at the battery terminals. I get 14.59 V when the car is running and 12.14 V when the car is off.

 
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Also, I just removed the PCM. I am going to order one today and I wanted the correct part number.