tweav88

Okay so here it goes,

I left church today and went and got some food and on my way back my civic just randomly died. Not violently, no crashing of internal parts clashing, no locking of wheels like it seized(i know it did not seize) just a whine and then it was dead. Thankfully it died right next to church so i could coast into the parking lot and get it off the road. So I popped the hood and checked to make sure nothing obvious happened. There was no shavings of metal in the oil, There was no obviously loose things or anything that stuck out that would make me think was the culprit. Other than a dead mice that was about the size of my thumb sitting between the fuel rail and the Head. The thing was so tiny I don't believe he would have chewed anything.


So then i went and started checking things out, And before you ask if I checked the obvious I did, I first checked the groundings on the thermostat housing because i read somewhere that if they get corroded or loose enough that it will kill the power to the ignition and fuel injectors. So i checked those and while one connection was corroded(i cleaned it), that was not the culprit.
Next i checked for spark, i took an ignition coil and spark plug out and sat them on the thermostat housing and had someone turn the motor over, and waaa laaa, it sparked away, orange spark, and to my pleasant surprise i knocked out 2 birds with one stone cause i got blasted in the face with gasoline coming out of the cylinder head. So since i knew i was getting both spark and fuel, i checked all fuses and relays with a test light that i could find, both under hood and under dash(under steering column) and none were bad.


So my next assumption is that the timing belt jumped a slot or two, but the timing belt was changed last february which was just over 10k miles ago. But hey anything could happen, so tomorrow I am going to try to get it towed to a shop, which outta be fun, cause I am in Germany in the Air Force and getting the car towed on base will be an experience haha, and I'll tell the mechanic my findings and ask him to check it out and see what they think.

If any of you have any sort of ideas that may in fact be simple problems to fix that would cause my car to die like it did. Now it just cranks and cranks till the little battery is dead.

Any Help will be greatly appreciated.

And because i havent posted in a while I'll just add the car specs as i dont know if my signature is still here,

2002 Honda Civic LX, 1.7 SOHC D17A1, 5 Speed, 139K, only mod is a K&N Typhoon SRI. Oil is changed every 3k.

Matt_75

Sounds like you're on the right track.

s4boost

fuel pump.

tweav88

No, I mentioned that i had checked to see if fuel was being injected into the cylinders and i got blasted in the face by gasoline, so fuel pump is fine.

tweav88

Well for anyone who cares, i had the car towed to a shop that I've heard does good work, and explained all that i did in my original post. And the mechanic also thought the time belt and he was correct!

So the timing belt tensioner spring was the culprit and cause the timing belt to go. The spring wore through the whole on the arm coming from to tensioner that you attach the spring to, and fell and wedged itself between the crank gear and timing belt, destroying half of the coggs on the timing belt and hopefully just caused it to jump a few teeth. Because when i checked the rocker arms were still rotating when i turned the motor over. So now he has a timing belt and tensioner on its way and is going to install and do a compression test. Fingers crossed because I don't want to be spending thousands on valves and headwork.

mikey1

i would expect you will be doing that ^^^^^

when the timing belts on these engines fail, its never pretty





when you had the timing belt replaced, did you replace the tensioner and/or tensioner spring?....if the answer is yes, did they use oem honda parts?

i really can not believe a failure like this could occur if all oem honda parts are used, AND the installation is done correctly....one or the other is lacking here, which brings me to my next question....who replaced the timing belt for you?


if they used all oem honda parts, then this is definitely an installation error





....

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

lol watch this video courtesey of ezone

[autostream]http://autostream.com/ibcivicforums/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=1358& transactionid=1359430682-1084622964&posted_by=_www.civicforums.com&youtube_ video_id=AkNsa0BK7Zw[/autostream]

If nothing comes out pressure is 0
If it hits the hood then its probably 5-8 psi
If it squirts all over the fender 10-15 psi
If it squirts on the fender on the hood then its 25-30 psi
If it squirts to the garage roof all over the car then its 30-40 psi

tweav88

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So there are pictures of the damage, the shop said the same thing you did, they think the shop that put it on before didnt tighten the tensioner right or something. But it was done 3 years ago, I already talked to them and they said they couldn't do anything, I might go and talk to the manager next week, but it's whatever.

I ended up just getting a Re-manufactured head from Clear Water Cylinder Heads out of Florida, for $325 and $68 shipping, so that saved me some money, and my dad got the Gasket kit and saved me $100 cause he gets a discount at the local parts store.

ezone

That looks like an awful lot of valves open at the same time. Ouch.


Original tensioner pulley and spring have been good for 200-250k here (my observation).
I have been recommending replacing with factory parts at any timing belt service over 150k. Some people go for it, some don't.



A quote to ponder: "What is the COST of that cheap PRICE?"

TOO MANY aftermarket tensioner units don't last long.
How many miles did your aftermarket tensioner live?
Was the spring replaced with it?



I don't think they can tighten it wrong without damaging the bolt or its hole.

3 years is waaay past the normal warranty offered by most shops.

mikey1

in my opinion i think the tensoiner bolt was not tightened enough (torqued properly), i think the bolt has come loose, that would let the whole tensoiner vibrate back and forth erratically causing the spring to rub....

i dont think it has anything to do with the parts used (aftermarket).....i think its an installation error....



P.S....is that GREEN coolant i see in there?

tweav88

That is what the mechanic at the shop thinks too, hes willing to vouch for me that the reason it happened was installation error. So I am going to go talk to the manager of the shop that did it before about it tomorrow, and if I get nothing there I am going to the Legal Office on base to see if there is any possibility of getting the shop who installed the belt last to pay for the damages. Only reason I am doing the Legal office is because its free(a perk of being in the military).

And,
Well I bought the car in July of 2012 and the belt was changed in January of 2010, I'm not sure but I assume the previous owner used aftermarket parts. I prefer using factory parts as well, I'll have to check with the shop if the new tensioner and belt are factory or not.

And yes when I first saw the anti-freeze around the cylinders I was initially like but I guess as long as they flush everything it will be fine and he assured me they will. Messes can happen so I understand that, I'll be doing an oil change after a few hundred miles after i get the car back to ensure if any crap is in there it won't be for long.

Oh, im not sure if I mentioned it or not, but Clear Water Cylinder heads offers a 2 year unlimited mile warranty on their cylinder heads, and they were great to deal with, if anyone needs a re-manufactured head or a head rebuilt they will do it for you or will search to find a head for you. I was impressed with there service, now just waiting for the product to arrive.

ezone

I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on. The work was done for the PREVIOUS owner, and it was completed longer ago than the shops' written warranty policy (assuming they have a written policy stating the typical 12 mos./12,000 miles). Your best hope is for some goodwill, and I sure wouldn't hold my breath. JMHO.



How many miles did this have on the belt and tensioner?

Would be wise to get this clear ahead of time.

I bet they won't cover damage caused by another timing belt letting go.