Turbo vs. All-motor
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Turbo vs. All-motor
This thread was made for me to consider pro's/cons for either turbo or n/a.
I have a strong interest in autox so please bare that in mind a bit when addressing me.
Also this like any is an as I go project so the end result is less as dominant as the journey.
I can't decide on all motor for daily driving/autox/drag or a turbo (which can be bad for autox due to turbo spiking and inconsistency in hp due to spooling and such) for autocross/drag/highway and daily driving.
Understood that with 12:1 pistons, new rods, port/polish new 2025 or other composite valves, springs, and retainers to rev higher. Intake Manifold, Bored-out Throttle body, I/H/E, maybe high-flow catalytic convertor. Wires, plugs, etc. Aggressive camshaft and a cam.. plus my pullies.. I bet I could pull out around 240-270 altogether when I have everything done.. It is a sohc motor with no vtec. even with vtec maybe 280 as an estimate.
Turbo however..
Port/polish, new rods, sleeves, block guard, maybe new pistons, intercooler, fmu or rising rate regulator, intake, intake manifold, bored-out throttle body, cam (retarded a few degrees) with valves,springs retainer to rev higher..
Wires, plugs, high-flow cat maybe, pullies, ability to upgrade the turbo and turbine per preference.. eventually could run probably 15 or so pounds and hit nearly 320 at an estimate, maybe more if tuned right.
Such a toss up, these figures do not include nitrious, which could with some ingenuity make the turbo (intercooler spray with a decent shot wet/dry) perform all the better..
I cannot run on the autox track or any track most of the time, so that will also be a consideration, I can turn the turbo boost down, but I cannot change the cam shaft every weekend for all motor, unless it's a daily drivable not TOO aggressive camshaft..
Thanks for all opinions!
I have a strong interest in autox so please bare that in mind a bit when addressing me.
Also this like any is an as I go project so the end result is less as dominant as the journey.
I can't decide on all motor for daily driving/autox/drag or a turbo (which can be bad for autox due to turbo spiking and inconsistency in hp due to spooling and such) for autocross/drag/highway and daily driving.
Understood that with 12:1 pistons, new rods, port/polish new 2025 or other composite valves, springs, and retainers to rev higher. Intake Manifold, Bored-out Throttle body, I/H/E, maybe high-flow catalytic convertor. Wires, plugs, etc. Aggressive camshaft and a cam.. plus my pullies.. I bet I could pull out around 240-270 altogether when I have everything done.. It is a sohc motor with no vtec. even with vtec maybe 280 as an estimate.
Turbo however..
Port/polish, new rods, sleeves, block guard, maybe new pistons, intercooler, fmu or rising rate regulator, intake, intake manifold, bored-out throttle body, cam (retarded a few degrees) with valves,springs retainer to rev higher..
Wires, plugs, high-flow cat maybe, pullies, ability to upgrade the turbo and turbine per preference.. eventually could run probably 15 or so pounds and hit nearly 320 at an estimate, maybe more if tuned right.
Such a toss up, these figures do not include nitrious, which could with some ingenuity make the turbo (intercooler spray with a decent shot wet/dry) perform all the better..
I cannot run on the autox track or any track most of the time, so that will also be a consideration, I can turn the turbo boost down, but I cannot change the cam shaft every weekend for all motor, unless it's a daily drivable not TOO aggressive camshaft..
Thanks for all opinions!
ever concider a supercharger? Jackson racing has some nice ones .... a good comprimise i would think
edit: btw i live right by you near katy ... Highway 6 and FM 529 .. nice to see a local boy on the forums. But yeah if you go down to the dog track to do your autox, you don't need either really, you could run N/A, I have come close to the top with my N/A '01 coupe, and the last time i went my friend owned up some Audi quattros in his RSX automatic
edit: btw i live right by you near katy ... Highway 6 and FM 529 .. nice to see a local boy on the forums. But yeah if you go down to the dog track to do your autox, you don't need either really, you could run N/A, I have come close to the top with my N/A '01 coupe, and the last time i went my friend owned up some Audi quattros in his RSX automatic
Last edited by cryption; Jun 16, 2003 at 07:08 PM.
Originally posted by synikal
no superchargers for our car. most companies wont address our 7thgens because of the lack of space in the engine bay. IF a company does decide to make one, it wont be for a few years
no superchargers for our car. most companies wont address our 7thgens because of the lack of space in the engine bay. IF a company does decide to make one, it wont be for a few years
*edit* John Eagle Honda where I got my car has a special performance shop through the delership to tune out cars .. i think they want to get in touch with the youth in houston or something along those lines
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Rep Power: 0 Yea, I go to John Eagle for most things now, my dealership is stupid as are most in houston. Kewl, I used to live at Dairy Ashford and Memorial.. so close to westy it was crazy.. Hadn't really considered a supercharger, they dont generally out shine a turbo save for a low spooling turbo that sacrifices overall boost for spool up time.
I believe it was andrew up at John Eagle who was talkin about a jackson turbo for our cars .. it may not outdo a turbo .. but for low end is what you need in autox anyway .. you're really not much up in the high revs ... iuno but a turbo puts a lot more wear on a motor than a super does i believe, abd the super gives you a much broader powerband .. I could be wrong about the super even being avaliable, you could talk to andrew though .. he knows a whole lot about the 7th gen
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force induction = great for straight roads and some mountains
n/a the best for going sideways and everything else
a n/a high perfomance motor gives the drive more precise control over the power overall
force induction = great for straight roads and some mountains
n/a the best for going sideways and everything else
a n/a high perfomance motor gives the drive more precise control over the power overall
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Rep Power: 0 That is why I want n/a, but I like to drive really fast on freeways... 
so that is why turbo is fun..
Maybe just n/a..
just so hard, I doubt it can get 'that' fast n/a with our car.. maybe im just pessimestic.
What is a realistic number as far as making my way up, and then just barely streetable.. what about a d16 comparison?
thanks.
so that is why turbo is fun..
Maybe just n/a..
just so hard, I doubt it can get 'that' fast n/a with our car.. maybe im just pessimestic.
What is a realistic number as far as making my way up, and then just barely streetable.. what about a d16 comparison?
thanks.
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For autocross, a FWD Tubo car could be if not actually be the Hardest car to push around the track. I have great respect for the few people that can, but they are far and few between. A supercharger is better for autocross, it gives a much more linier power band rather then the spike that turbos have. unfotunatly to my knolage there are none available. Be wary as to what you do to the car or else you may pigion hole youre self in to a class that you have no chance of winning.
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Rep Power: 0 Well, 320 as an estimate.. right now someone is running 219 on what 8 or 9 psi.. imagine a cam, pullies, high-flow cat, port/polish, rods, internals and pushing around like 14-18psi.. don't be that pessimestic.
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Rep Power: 0 IMO, the best thing you can do to prepare for autocross is to lose some weight (on the car), and get a really nice tight suspension setup. Lightweight wheels, sticky tires, stiff springs, and lots of practice will get you a lot further than high $$ motor work.
Not to mention it's a lot easier on the pocketbook.
Not to mention it's a lot easier on the pocketbook.
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by CGodwin3103
Yea, I go to John Eagle for most things now, my dealership is stupid as are most in houston. Kewl, I used to live at Dairy Ashford and Memorial.. so close to westy it was crazy.. Hadn't really considered a supercharger, they dont generally out shine a turbo save for a low spooling turbo that sacrifices overall boost for spool up time.
Yea, I go to John Eagle for most things now, my dealership is stupid as are most in houston. Kewl, I used to live at Dairy Ashford and Memorial.. so close to westy it was crazy.. Hadn't really considered a supercharger, they dont generally out shine a turbo save for a low spooling turbo that sacrifices overall boost for spool up time.
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are you sure about that? When i bought my car the honda delership i got it from said that jackson racing has one for it that would work nicely .. they even offered me a price with installation before i drove it off the lot ... maybe my salesman is crazy .. but i dunno
*edit* John Eagle Honda where I got my car has a special performance shop through the delership to tune out cars .. i think they want to get in touch with the youth in houston or something along those lines
are you sure about that? When i bought my car the honda delership i got it from said that jackson racing has one for it that would work nicely .. they even offered me a price with installation before i drove it off the lot ... maybe my salesman is crazy .. but i dunno
*edit* John Eagle Honda where I got my car has a special performance shop through the delership to tune out cars .. i think they want to get in touch with the youth in houston or something along those lines
Marcello left John Eagle Honda about 1.5 months ago. He now works at Beltway Import Pro's (off of Tanner and Beltway 8). Other than Marcello, there really isn't any other guy there that has any experience doing import performance work. Not trying to diss any of the techs there - they're great guys, it's just that none of them besides Marcello really knows anything about superchargers, turbos, or even installing CAI's for that matter. There was one tech (who shall remain nameless, he doesn't even work there anymore anyways) who installed an AEM CAI the wrong way and ended up using an electric saw to cut off some part of the car so that the hood would close. LOL...
Andrew Machac and Scott Hajovsky in the parts department are cool guys, though. If you're cool with them, they'll hook you up with some good prices on whatever you need.
I would go somewhere else for labor and installation, though.
Just my $0.02.
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Rep Power: 0 I think I'm gonna just chill with the autox, I cant really do it much around here, and not without a trek to hit a decent track. So It's ***** to the wall drag and freeway... what now.. lol..
THis is somewhat true.. turbo im have been customed to fit the d17.
THis is somewhat true.. turbo im have been customed to fit the d17.
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by htowncivicEX
John Eagle Honda has a shop where they sell aftermarket products and parts. However, they do not have a shop where they tune cars. Their 'performance division' was basically just one guy (Marcello Ortiz) who did all of the supercharger installations and aftermarket stuff. The shop doesn't have even have a dyno - Marcello has to take the cars to somewhere else (usually Carboy) to do dyno tuning.
Marcello left John Eagle Honda about 1.5 months ago. He now works at Beltway Import Pro's (off of Tanner and Beltway 8). Other than Marcello, there really isn't any other guy there that has any experience doing import performance work. Not trying to diss any of the techs there - they're great guys, it's just that none of them besides Marcello really knows anything about superchargers, turbos, or even installing CAI's for that matter. There was one tech (who shall remain nameless, he doesn't even work there anymore anyways) who installed an AEM CAI the wrong way and ended up using an electric saw to cut off some part of the car so that the hood would close. LOL...
Andrew Machac and Scott Hajovsky in the parts department are cool guys, though. If you're cool with them, they'll hook you up with some good prices on whatever you need.
I would go somewhere else for labor and installation, though.
Just my $0.02.
John Eagle Honda has a shop where they sell aftermarket products and parts. However, they do not have a shop where they tune cars. Their 'performance division' was basically just one guy (Marcello Ortiz) who did all of the supercharger installations and aftermarket stuff. The shop doesn't have even have a dyno - Marcello has to take the cars to somewhere else (usually Carboy) to do dyno tuning.
Marcello left John Eagle Honda about 1.5 months ago. He now works at Beltway Import Pro's (off of Tanner and Beltway 8). Other than Marcello, there really isn't any other guy there that has any experience doing import performance work. Not trying to diss any of the techs there - they're great guys, it's just that none of them besides Marcello really knows anything about superchargers, turbos, or even installing CAI's for that matter. There was one tech (who shall remain nameless, he doesn't even work there anymore anyways) who installed an AEM CAI the wrong way and ended up using an electric saw to cut off some part of the car so that the hood would close. LOL...
Andrew Machac and Scott Hajovsky in the parts department are cool guys, though. If you're cool with them, they'll hook you up with some good prices on whatever you need.
I would go somewhere else for labor and installation, though.
Just my $0.02.
Either install it yourself or bring it elsewhere. They don't even use genuine honda oil for oil changes, I have to go to Happy Honda. I live in Copperfield so if you guys have a mini meet or something, PM me. Registered!!
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Rep Power: 0 Never go to a Honda dealership to get aftermarket stuff installed - it's just way too expensive. Plus a lot of the techs just don't have a lot of experience doing aftermarket installations. One time I saw a tech at John Eagle installing Koni struts on a 7th gen - he had never worked with Konis before so he accidentally installed it upside down. Haha when he brought the car down from the lift there was like a 12" wheel gap on just that one corner. I walked over said, "Uh that doesn't look right."
The ironic thing is that Scott Hajovsky (works the parts counter at John Eagle) probably is better with aftermarket installs than any of the techs at John Eagle. Scott is a former tech and used to be the mechanic at Hocus Pocus Autodynamics (the shop with the 10-sec. all-motor Civic).
The only dealership in Houston that I would trust with aftermarket stuff is David McDavid Honda over in Pasadena. There is this Vietnamese tech named Pham who can't speak English worth crap but is pretty damn good with installing turbos and doing aftermarket stuff. A lot of people from the Preludes of Houston Club bring their cars to McDavid for Pham to work on. But they don't have a dyno over there (at least that I know of), so you'll have to go to a performance shop to do any tuning.
TiM - I live in Copperfield as well. Staying at a buddy's house while I'm saving up for a place of my own. I worked at John Eagle for about half a year and had a 1-mile commute to work in the morning. Now I work in Sugarland and have a 30-mile commute.
The ironic thing is that Scott Hajovsky (works the parts counter at John Eagle) probably is better with aftermarket installs than any of the techs at John Eagle. Scott is a former tech and used to be the mechanic at Hocus Pocus Autodynamics (the shop with the 10-sec. all-motor Civic).
The only dealership in Houston that I would trust with aftermarket stuff is David McDavid Honda over in Pasadena. There is this Vietnamese tech named Pham who can't speak English worth crap but is pretty damn good with installing turbos and doing aftermarket stuff. A lot of people from the Preludes of Houston Club bring their cars to McDavid for Pham to work on. But they don't have a dyno over there (at least that I know of), so you'll have to go to a performance shop to do any tuning.
TiM - I live in Copperfield as well. Staying at a buddy's house while I'm saving up for a place of my own. I worked at John Eagle for about half a year and had a 1-mile commute to work in the morning. Now I work in Sugarland and have a 30-mile commute.
Last edited by htowncivicEX; Jun 21, 2003 at 03:34 PM.
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Rep Power: 0 I think if you went n/a, its would be much more of a challenge and also more satisfying. Granted you don't have the Psssshhhhh, but knowing that you built a strong fast motor is a reward in of it self.
Its funny that I just found out all you guys live around here, but I don't see many if at all modified 7thgens around here. Especially Copperfield. If I see one I'll assume its one of you guys and honk my horn, I'll be in a red coupe. So don't think I'm crazy.
Its funny that I just found out all you guys live around here, but I don't see many if at all modified 7thgens around here. Especially Copperfield. If I see one I'll assume its one of you guys and honk my horn, I'll be in a red coupe. So don't think I'm crazy.
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Rep Power: 0 dunno about carb legal..... it depends on what you buy that they can see...
tim, check out my ride so you'll know it's me... if a red coupe beeps at me, ill wave..
tim, check out my ride so you'll know it's me... if a red coupe beeps at me, ill wave..
turbo is for sure not carb legal
NA...it depends on what you do. What he has planned...no, it wouldnt pass. But, if you find the right person, put down some money, anything will pass SMOG. Thats what im gonna have to do after my swap. A) the swap isnt legal, atleast im not gonna take it to a ref. to make it legal B) im puttin a race header on the new motor...that for sure would keep me from passing.
NA...it depends on what you do. What he has planned...no, it wouldnt pass. But, if you find the right person, put down some money, anything will pass SMOG. Thats what im gonna have to do after my swap. A) the swap isnt legal, atleast im not gonna take it to a ref. to make it legal B) im puttin a race header on the new motor...that for sure would keep me from passing.
