FuKNGRuVN

Alright, I haven't been lurking in here for a while without posting, partially because I got a hella-cold that I can't shake, and I've been mad at my Civic lately. I won't go into details here, suffice to say I’ve been looking around at what some of the other dealers have to offer right now, and I’m wondering what Honda’s response, if any, is gonna be to these new cars hitting the market. I did some searches in the forum, but couldn’t really find a topic that brought it all together.

What caught my attention is some of the “tuner” cars that you can buy at your local dealership, with factory parts, factory warranty, en mass. Cars like the SRT-4 and the SE-R Spec V. After driving all of these el cheapo performance beasts, the first thing that came into my mind was…. “too bad it’s not a Honda.” And then the sticker prices shocked the hell outta me. $24k for a loaded SE-R Spec V? Where the hell was this thing when I was looking at cars in November of 2001?!

I’m gonna stick to Canadian bucks and offerings, so if any of the lingo here confuzles you, something must have been lost in the translation.

Now, I know that the Civic “Type R” hatch is coming…. so that will be Honda’s top of the line sporty model in the econobox sector. If the pricing is anywhere near the SiR, that will place it in the just under $30k range. 200hp for a 0-60 time of about 6.5 seconds. Not too shabby, but it’s small as hell. And compared to the some of the others on the market, its overpriced. Same with the RSX. For the price range (under 30k), there is now more competition entering the market:

2003 Nissan SE-R Spec V
2.4L - 175hp – 0-60 in 6.9 (tested it last week) - $24,500

2003 Mazdaspeed Protégé
1.9L Turbo – 0-60 in 6.9 - $27,500

2003 Dodge SRT-4 (the beast of the pack)
2.4L Turbo – 0-60 in 5.6 – est $29,000

I don’t give a rats’ *** if it’s a Neon… it can still trump 90% of the vehicles on the road. I don’t know about you, but I feel like an idiot when I can’t catch up to a Neon logo on the backend of a car.

Just a quick and dirty list – I know the RSX Type S and Celica GT and a whole bunch more should be on there, but when it comes right down to it, the question I wanna ask Honda is :

For $25000 will Honda produce a car to keep up with these?

I know the 3rd party market for Hondas’ are second to none. But still, everyone else is offering a compact built and warrantied by the factory, so why doesn’t Honda?

What do you guys think? My wish list would be a performance Civic coupe, with a suspension package, tuned dual-exhaust, and decent motor shoved under the hood, maybe the 200hp RSX’s, for $27,000. Screw the SiR hatch – the overflow stock on dealers’ lots should be enough to get the signal through to |H| that we don’t want ‘em as badly. Nothing overdone, just a good place to start from, and a good competitive package to go up against the SE-R. A car that says “S E N T R A” on the back should not go that fast anyway.

http://www.modernracer.com lists a lot of the cars I’m talking about, and lists 0-60, pros and cons, etc.

I intend to keep my Civic until it’s paid off and becomes an asset, but there are some mighty tempting choices out there… and I've been known to give in quite dramatically to temptation.


<turns and runs back to the Nissan dealership to burn another 50kms in the silver SE-R Spec V>

THEANTIRICEST

iTrader: (7)

I think Honda's view is that they have the RSX-S and thats about as competitive as they will get in the performance compact market. I don't see Honda making a Turbo for any of there cars in the future, they'll stick with NA 4 bangers.

sadboy916

No, they wont. Why do alot of members want Honda to make a fast small sport car under 30k its not going to happen. why not buy a real sports car like a firebird or Camaro and don't be a typical ricer and say reliability b/c I grew up around muscle cars and they never have has reliability problems more than any other car would.

think outside of your little honda bubble

GideoN

Reliability is not my main problem, it's gas mileage. I save a hella more with my civic than any car I have driven and any of my friends with their Camaros and Firebirds. I understand my car isn't fast, but I will still drive it and try hard to work for another car. My 2 cents!

kennisonxgs

I think Honda should do what they do best and not follow this trend. They've already been associated with street racing enough as it is and it's best that they don't make it worse. Not only that but how many people who do not race care about 0-60 or 1/4 mile time for that matter?
If you want speed for cheap, just strap a rocket between your legs and you'll get 0-60 in less than a second.

sadboy916

i love my civic for a daily driver i dont think or even want it to be a sports car. its crazy how unmodable are cars are when me and kenshin met up we raced for the hell of it and i beat him stock and he has i/h/e with some other things i just cant think of them right now.

also this whole modding civics and shyt is just a trend it will go away in time.

GideoN

Yeah, its a trend but I don't expect it to go away. Muscle cars haven't gone away because of people liking them so much. Imports won't go away because of people liking them so much. And for the speed anyone could want, spend around $11,000 and get a damn Hayabusa for all the speed you would ever want.

Voiceofid

iTrader: (3)

i swear the honda's answer to that is the upcomming release of the civic type-r with 195hp or something like that

a completely decked out civic straight from honda will never happen. if you look in the past couple years, they have been trying really hard to present themselkves being the cleanest automotive manufacture in the world, and they are not going to make a fast car under 25k just to ruin that. like another member said, the "do-up a honda" group maybe very small in their eyes. i remeber reading an article several months ago with an interview with a top dog in honda asking why they are not into the truck market, the guy answered because they don't need to, they sell every vehicle they make and more. if you want a fast car under 25k, look somewhere else, stop forcing honda upon your wishes.

and those of you say you brought the car to save fuel, but want a fast civic, cut the crap huh? if you have a fast honda, you are not going to get the milage of a civic. more power=more fuel

CarbonFly

iTrader: (12)

I thought the RSX-S was Honda's answer to the Sport Compact Car market.

Hawk

iTrader: (5)

Civcs aren't fast out of the box, nor was it the intention when the car was made. Like everyone said Honda sells reliable good on gas, practical cars, period.

Its up to the owner to make the car quicker, if they want. Thats why theres such a large aftermarket following for the Civic, the aftermarket companys know they arent fast when they are produced, and they know what the younger peple that buy them want them to be fast. So they try to make the best products for the car to make it faster.

Now its a given that the Civic will never be a "sports car" but you know what, if i can get my car to run 13's (with my k20 of course) than i'm happy.

GideoN

So did I.

And I bought my civic for the main purpose of gas mileage. I have never said that I wanted to do all these things to make it go "Fast." I will do things to it but I know that it will never be fast.

For ****'s sake, it's a damn econo-car!!!

EManEX

I was thinking the other day about the a Cavalier for $13,000 then paying about $4,300 for a Vortech Supercharger Kit made by RSM, a company in Canada, that produces 230 HP with 8 psi boost. The $4,300 includes hotel accommodations and installation if the system. That is still $17,300 for a car with about 195WHP, if the 230 is not at the wheels already. That is not bad at all.

sadboy916

im sorry guys building sport compact imports is a trend it wont last like muscle cars. im not saying that people will stop modding imports but the whole civic/integra scene will go away. there ecno cars people just forgot that and i still dont know why people put racing wings on a civic lol even if its a 11 second car its FWD and a wing on the back serves no purpose.

CarbonFly

iTrader: (12)

Talk about a bandwagon jumper. You used to be all about civics and working on them. But ever since you got your Trans Am you've totally changed.

I used to have a 97 Trans Am. I know what muscle cars are about. That car would spank anything around town and it eventually became less fun to drive. I wanted my civic because I knew it would be a chore to work on and to get it to go fast.

GideoN

I do agree with you. And I find it very ignorant to put racing wings on front wheel drive cars (which I hope dies out SOON). But muscle cars has definently died down since their time of hi-life. Imports then got there light, and now SUV's. But I agree nonetheless.

GideoN

That's another reason why I think that imports won't die away, it's a hobby. There will probably be some of us that will be 60 years old and still looking at imports just like there are muscle car enthusiasts.

Diemos

lmao firebird or Camaro? Whoa and that isent a little chevy bubble? What about Mustang GTs? Not that I like them, but if you are going to try and make people be less biased maybe you should be too? And for your information, I happen to like my 38 MPG, and I unlike most of the members here didnt pick my car because it was economical. And why do I not like Camaros or Firebirds? Well first off they dont make them anymore, chevy is not as reliable as Honda. I owned a 91 Oldsmobile Cutlass supreme V6 3.8 Litre with its impressive 140 HP and 11 second 0-60. Thats the power of CHEVY! Thats why I wont ever buy a Chevy agian, or the fact that the curb weight of a Camaro or Firebird is 3300 lbs for the V6 3500 for the V8. And I dont know about you, but when I drive cars I like them to go in more than a straight line. If you want to talk about a cool car Lotus Elise, can out handle any other car and would rape your precious V8 "Sports Car" in a drag race. Typical Americans thinking that cars have to have huge engines to go fast... maybe if we all stopped eating beef from the rain forest imported by Mcdonalds we wouldnt need 4.8 Liter plus V8 cars to haul our huge 65 inch waists across our pot hole highways? Whatever, I dont really even care, I just hope you realise how ridiculous this whole arguement is.

xHoteKx

iTrader: (3)

ditto

LikeWEEEEEEEEEE

uh the new srts are nowhere near your quoted price. ive heard numerous reports of people rolling them off the lot for around 18 grand

Slizo

he's talking canadian dollars

sadboy916

first off i dont have a firebird yet i cant afford it to at least the summer and about the handling thing a firebird will outhandle a civic any day.

i like imports like the new z and rx-7's ect ect but you cant beat a nice 5.7 320 hp out of the box plus they are MUCH more modable than any b or k series ever made headers can give you 50 hp to the crank thats more than i/h/e will give you on a any b or k series.

AlphaInfinity

No, unless you do some major suspension work on a firebird, it won't outhandle a civic. Sorry, physics isn't on your side. It WILL waste a civic on any straight patch of road.

Two different animals. I have a civic, and Ive driven plenty of firebirds. Both nice cars, made for different pourposes.

sadboy916

hmmmmm i have driven my dads firebird for about the last 5 years and my civic for almost 3 and i will tell you from personal experience that a firebird handles better

GideoN

Yeah, a Civic will out handle a Firebird easily. The Firebird is huge compared to the Civic and Civics will always out handle a Firebird. Physics isn't on the Firebird's or Camaro's side.

GideoN

It's like comparing a Buick Le Sabre to a Mini Coop. Ain't happenen!

AlphaInfinity

YUP I think a mini cooper would outhandle the civic...smaller car, lower center of gravity, less curb weight ect ect

sadboy916

lol okay whatever you say guys but who really cares how many of you guys HONESTLY have taken your car auto X'ing

GideoN

This arguement is rather pointless seeing that it won't end with a true answer. It's all good

CarbonFly

iTrader: (12)

OMG!! I owned a Trans Am for 2 years. The handling on it sucks. They are so loose. And when it rains, forget about having any traction. I spun my T/A across the highway in the rain one time. Both right side tires blew out. I'm just lucky a cop was behind me when it happened and he could help me.

The civic is tight and has mad grip. It is a well known fact that civic's are awsome auto-x cars.

I've owned both cars, so I know.

Fletchman04

ya!!!!!!! civics rule!!!!

sorry i had to be gay for a minute, some of you guys must be really worked up over this. i love my civic. i was going to seel it to a friend since i don't drive it anymore b/c of school, but i decided not to. its a great hobby, and i learn more about cars all the time just by doing stuff to my car. its all about fun and playing up your civic as a monster with a 1/4 mile under 10 sec. no one can do it buts its fun to bs with your buds.