Since this is a hot topic, I'm making a thread just for this discussion. Here is also a link (thanks to XxJDMCivicxX) to the honda tuning article about the K20 swap into a 7th gen civic. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Honda Tuning K20 swap
Honda Tuning K20 swap
I read that article today at Target while at lunch. I didn't get to finish it though. Do those Hasport Engine mounts work for the coupe as well b/c the Civic in the mag was a sedan. How much would that cost for the mounts, Engine, and install......has to be fat cash flow...[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
At first I was like the hell with it I'll stick with my D, but now I gues im just keeping my rear section and intake, then I'll do all looks. Next year in comes the K. Long wait though, damn college.
Oh yeah, I read that article a while back. I didn't remember that I had read it until I saw it just now again. I wish they had some more technical information in that article though. Oh well...
Really, I don't think it's a very complicated swap. I never thought it would be, but everyone here was so pessimistic about it that anytime you brought it up, you had 8 wannabe techies spouting off second-hand swap jargon as to why it couldn't be done.
I measured the engine bay vs. a Type S and I was sure it could be done, I was just worried about the power steering pump and relocating the radiator, which hasport pretty much eliminated using engine mounts.
I don't think it looks to be too hard of a swap, the only thing that makes it rough is getting the car to a dealership so they can reprogram the ECU against your civic key's resistance values so the ECU will allow the car to start.
Edit: From what I can see the engine bay of the Coupe and Sedan are identical. The bowl mount is there, everything seems to be the same... there are a few wires that are located it different places, but that's about all I can see.
I measured the engine bay vs. a Type S and I was sure it could be done, I was just worried about the power steering pump and relocating the radiator, which hasport pretty much eliminated using engine mounts.
I don't think it looks to be too hard of a swap, the only thing that makes it rough is getting the car to a dealership so they can reprogram the ECU against your civic key's resistance values so the ECU will allow the car to start.
Edit: From what I can see the engine bay of the Coupe and Sedan are identical. The bowl mount is there, everything seems to be the same... there are a few wires that are located it different places, but that's about all I can see.
yeah I would do that in an instant, but then I saw the price for the swap, around 10 grand [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/IMG]
maybe in a few years hehe, when and if prices of it drop.
maybe in a few years hehe, when and if prices of it drop.
With HAsports mounts will we still need the RSX sub frame?? The artical did not say. Grey is right... it lacked all the tech stuff we would need.
~nick~
~nick~
The article said that you would still need the RSX subframe
Here's some more info on the swap from Briang, after doing a search:
Here is an outline of the Hasport engine swap into our 2001 Civic EX Sedan.
Although as we go through the process of writing the instruction for the
swap I may add to some of the details.
It is broken into three sections: parts list, engine install and electrical
01-03 Civic K20A installation outline
Parts needed:
K20A2 or K20A3 (from Civic Si) Engine w/ AC compressor, alternator, P/S pump
(if you want powersteering), wiring harness, exhaust manifold and catalytic
converter
ECU
Transmission and starter
intermediate shaft
Axles from either 02 Civic Si or 94 up Integra GSR (we used 02 RSX with RSX
knuckles and hubs)
RSX or 02 Civic Si subframe with lower control arms
Hasport ESK1 bolt in mount kit
RSX shifter assembly and cables
02 Civic Si radiator and fans (although the RSX will fit with some trimming
around the radiator cap opening in the grill)
02 Civic Si upper and lower radiator hoses (RSX are longer and may kink)
RSX high pressure powersteering hose and return line (if you want
powersteering)
92 Civic P/S resevoir w/ bracket and 90 Accord heater hose from head to
heater valve (if you want powersteering)
RSX throttle cable
RSX fuel line, brake booster line and purge line
RSX AC line from compressor to condensor
90 Accord negative battery cable
The installation (not including electrical)
After removing the old engine and subframe the Hasport left and right
brackets are bolted in place.
Next the RSX P/S hoses were installed. On the passenger side where brackets
are present on the RSX rack but not the Civic's we used heavy duty zip ties
to secure the hoses. We installed the 92 Civic P/S resevoir just in front of
the fuse box with a bracket we made to the 92 Civic's P/S resevoir bracket.
The return line had to be modified to fit.
The hood latch support was in the way of the Civic Si's radiator fan so it
was removed (cut out) and a new one was fabraciated from aluminum and bolted
into place.
The engine installation is pretty straight forward, the only gliitch is that
the passenger side mount is a little tricky if you are coming up from the
bottom with the engine. You need to lift the engine a little above it's
position at rest to install the mount. The subframe was installed at this
point.
The Civic Si or GSR axles go right into place with no modification.
The header and cat from the engine bolt right in place and use existing
hangers. If you are installing the 02 Civic Si engine with header and cat,
it will line up with the stock exhaust. If you are using the RSX engine and
its header and cat, the exhaust will need to modified. On our 4 door we
used Ractive's RSX cat-back system and had to lengthen the intermediate pipe
and tail pipe 3 inches each. I am not sure of the 2 doors dimensions and
what would need to be changed.
For AC, we had a custom AC hose from the compressor the the firewall
fabricated and used the RSX AC line from the compressor to the condensor.
Then the radiator w/ fans and hoses were installed.
The fuel line and purge line were then gently bent so that the RSX lines
could be hooked up.
Our car was an automatic, so we simply bolted in the RSX shifter mechanism
and hooked up the cables. Some wiring then had to be done to hook up the
park/nuetral safety switch to the clutch.
The electrical:
When you use the RSX harness (which is suggested) the Civic body harness
lacks these three items; air fuel ratio sensor (first O2 sensor), air fuel
ratio relay (except HX model) and radiator fan switch. We added these with
the engine out so that it was easier to get to everything. A Hasport
convesion harness will be available within a month or so for this. For those
who wish to do it yourself, just get an RSX or Civic Si manual or ETM and
figure it out. It is not too difficult.
The RSX harness on our engine was then modified so that the two heavy gage
wires that connect to the fuse box were moved to the side of the engine bay
as the Civics fuse box. The positive and negative cables then went to the
side of the engine that the RSX has it's battery. Temporarily we mounted the
battery on the subframe just in front of the tranny, but the new mount kit
will allow us to mount the battery higher near the RSX's battery location.
The RSX harness was fed through the firewall where the Civics harness goes.
Two plugs form the RSX harness connect directly to the ECU, but the third
plug connects to the body harness. Only a couple of these wires are in the
same location as on the Civic's harness. Because I lacked an RSX or Si ETM I
individually traced out the location of each wire. I should have kept
record, but I didn't, so after I get the proper manual, I will put together
a diagram. This is the part that will screw up most people, so that when
Hasport starts offering the conversion harnesses, we will make sure this is
taken care of.
Last, for driving the car over to Honda to get the RSX ECU flashed to accept
the Civics key code, you should be able to drive on the Civic ECU for a
short distance.
With our Civic we opted to use the RSX knuckles, hubs and brake assemblies,
so we also used the RSX axles. The RSX axles can be use with the smaller
Civic hubs if you change the outer joints to those of the GSR or Civic Si.
Our Civic was an auto, so some wiring then had to be done to hook up the
park/nuetral safety switch to the clutch pedal switch.
Hey I hope this sheds some light on what is involved in the swap. We will
have more pictures on our web site as we further modify the car. Also look
in the nesr future for the first K24 swap as we build a big block for our
Civic and soon we will be doing a K24A Accord engine and tranny swap into a
01 Civic.
1) The Civic's engine bay has the same dimensions as the Civic Si, not the RSX. For that reason the RSX base model engine's intake manifold will not clear the core support.
2) The Civic Si radiator is a better fit than the RSX radiator, due to the location of the filler cap. The stock radiator's hose necks are in awkward positions and do not work well.
3) You will need the RSX or Civic Si subframe.
4) The 01-02 Civic engine harness contains the wiring for the primary O2 sensor, but not the RSX or Civic Si engine harness. This is a necessary part for code free operation so it has to be added. In the RSX or Si it is called the AFR (air fuel ratio) sensor, There is also a relay that goes along with it. The 01-02 Civic HX uses the same part. Use the HX wiring diagram for proper hookup. This part is for you Htown, it will fix your check engine light.
5) If you want powersteering, you will need to cut away some of the hood's underside support for pulley clearance. Use the RSX P/S hose, and return line.
And for the people using the rsx radiator instead of the si radiator like me:
(Htowncivicex) However, the rubber lower mounts of the RSX-style radiator don't fit quite snuggly into the lower holes. However, this shouldn't be a problem as long as your upper brackets are secured tightly. The filler cap for the RSX radiator is located a bit further to the right than on an EM Civic, so IB cut away a portion of the upper grill support to make room for the RSX radiator filler cap/hole.
The RSX radiator is also about 1/2 inch wider than the Civic radiator, so IB sliced away a portion of the left and right radiator sheet metal supports to make room
Here is an outline of the Hasport engine swap into our 2001 Civic EX Sedan.
Although as we go through the process of writing the instruction for the
swap I may add to some of the details.
It is broken into three sections: parts list, engine install and electrical
01-03 Civic K20A installation outline
Parts needed:
K20A2 or K20A3 (from Civic Si) Engine w/ AC compressor, alternator, P/S pump
(if you want powersteering), wiring harness, exhaust manifold and catalytic
converter
ECU
Transmission and starter
intermediate shaft
Axles from either 02 Civic Si or 94 up Integra GSR (we used 02 RSX with RSX
knuckles and hubs)
RSX or 02 Civic Si subframe with lower control arms
Hasport ESK1 bolt in mount kit
RSX shifter assembly and cables
02 Civic Si radiator and fans (although the RSX will fit with some trimming
around the radiator cap opening in the grill)
02 Civic Si upper and lower radiator hoses (RSX are longer and may kink)
RSX high pressure powersteering hose and return line (if you want
powersteering)
92 Civic P/S resevoir w/ bracket and 90 Accord heater hose from head to
heater valve (if you want powersteering)
RSX throttle cable
RSX fuel line, brake booster line and purge line
RSX AC line from compressor to condensor
90 Accord negative battery cable
The installation (not including electrical)
After removing the old engine and subframe the Hasport left and right
brackets are bolted in place.
Next the RSX P/S hoses were installed. On the passenger side where brackets
are present on the RSX rack but not the Civic's we used heavy duty zip ties
to secure the hoses. We installed the 92 Civic P/S resevoir just in front of
the fuse box with a bracket we made to the 92 Civic's P/S resevoir bracket.
The return line had to be modified to fit.
The hood latch support was in the way of the Civic Si's radiator fan so it
was removed (cut out) and a new one was fabraciated from aluminum and bolted
into place.
The engine installation is pretty straight forward, the only gliitch is that
the passenger side mount is a little tricky if you are coming up from the
bottom with the engine. You need to lift the engine a little above it's
position at rest to install the mount. The subframe was installed at this
point.
The Civic Si or GSR axles go right into place with no modification.
The header and cat from the engine bolt right in place and use existing
hangers. If you are installing the 02 Civic Si engine with header and cat,
it will line up with the stock exhaust. If you are using the RSX engine and
its header and cat, the exhaust will need to modified. On our 4 door we
used Ractive's RSX cat-back system and had to lengthen the intermediate pipe
and tail pipe 3 inches each. I am not sure of the 2 doors dimensions and
what would need to be changed.
For AC, we had a custom AC hose from the compressor the the firewall
fabricated and used the RSX AC line from the compressor to the condensor.
Then the radiator w/ fans and hoses were installed.
The fuel line and purge line were then gently bent so that the RSX lines
could be hooked up.
Our car was an automatic, so we simply bolted in the RSX shifter mechanism
and hooked up the cables. Some wiring then had to be done to hook up the
park/nuetral safety switch to the clutch.
The electrical:
When you use the RSX harness (which is suggested) the Civic body harness
lacks these three items; air fuel ratio sensor (first O2 sensor), air fuel
ratio relay (except HX model) and radiator fan switch. We added these with
the engine out so that it was easier to get to everything. A Hasport
convesion harness will be available within a month or so for this. For those
who wish to do it yourself, just get an RSX or Civic Si manual or ETM and
figure it out. It is not too difficult.
The RSX harness on our engine was then modified so that the two heavy gage
wires that connect to the fuse box were moved to the side of the engine bay
as the Civics fuse box. The positive and negative cables then went to the
side of the engine that the RSX has it's battery. Temporarily we mounted the
battery on the subframe just in front of the tranny, but the new mount kit
will allow us to mount the battery higher near the RSX's battery location.
The RSX harness was fed through the firewall where the Civics harness goes.
Two plugs form the RSX harness connect directly to the ECU, but the third
plug connects to the body harness. Only a couple of these wires are in the
same location as on the Civic's harness. Because I lacked an RSX or Si ETM I
individually traced out the location of each wire. I should have kept
record, but I didn't, so after I get the proper manual, I will put together
a diagram. This is the part that will screw up most people, so that when
Hasport starts offering the conversion harnesses, we will make sure this is
taken care of.
Last, for driving the car over to Honda to get the RSX ECU flashed to accept
the Civics key code, you should be able to drive on the Civic ECU for a
short distance.
With our Civic we opted to use the RSX knuckles, hubs and brake assemblies,
so we also used the RSX axles. The RSX axles can be use with the smaller
Civic hubs if you change the outer joints to those of the GSR or Civic Si.
Our Civic was an auto, so some wiring then had to be done to hook up the
park/nuetral safety switch to the clutch pedal switch.
Hey I hope this sheds some light on what is involved in the swap. We will
have more pictures on our web site as we further modify the car. Also look
in the nesr future for the first K24 swap as we build a big block for our
Civic and soon we will be doing a K24A Accord engine and tranny swap into a
01 Civic.
1) The Civic's engine bay has the same dimensions as the Civic Si, not the RSX. For that reason the RSX base model engine's intake manifold will not clear the core support.
2) The Civic Si radiator is a better fit than the RSX radiator, due to the location of the filler cap. The stock radiator's hose necks are in awkward positions and do not work well.
3) You will need the RSX or Civic Si subframe.
4) The 01-02 Civic engine harness contains the wiring for the primary O2 sensor, but not the RSX or Civic Si engine harness. This is a necessary part for code free operation so it has to be added. In the RSX or Si it is called the AFR (air fuel ratio) sensor, There is also a relay that goes along with it. The 01-02 Civic HX uses the same part. Use the HX wiring diagram for proper hookup. This part is for you Htown, it will fix your check engine light.
5) If you want powersteering, you will need to cut away some of the hood's underside support for pulley clearance. Use the RSX P/S hose, and return line.
And for the people using the rsx radiator instead of the si radiator like me:
(Htowncivicex) However, the rubber lower mounts of the RSX-style radiator don't fit quite snuggly into the lower holes. However, this shouldn't be a problem as long as your upper brackets are secured tightly. The filler cap for the RSX radiator is located a bit further to the right than on an EM Civic, so IB cut away a portion of the upper grill support to make room for the RSX radiator filler cap/hole.
The RSX radiator is also about 1/2 inch wider than the Civic radiator, so IB sliced away a portion of the left and right radiator sheet metal supports to make room
so this swap isnt that easy. i thought with the hasport mounts it should drop right in (or should i say be put in from the bottom [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]). man, i was hoping this swap would cost no more than 5K. i talked to the guy on ebay sellin the jdm k20a and i could most likely get the engine for 3.5K. how much would u guys guesstimate i would end up paying if i got the engine for this much? right now my car is sittin at honda with a giant whole in the transmission, so i find out monday if they'll cover it. 
if not k20 for me [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
if not k20 for me [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] 
Is there any possiblity of an H22 or B16/18 swap in the near future? I would think that since those engines have been around for as long as they have been it would be cheaper to do. With the aftermarket support of the B series and H series engines you should be able to get more power out of them then out of a K series, right? Also, would an LX owner have to switch to an EX (i.e. VTEC) head to make a K20 swap (or any swap for that matter) or is that a non issue? And why is the D series engine so undesirable that it needs to be swapped? Is there no more power to be had out of it? I have lotsa questions but I am new to this stuff[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
I was considering a B18 in some cases. I guess it hasn't brought up because most want the newer stuff. If you wanted the B18 maybe a teg GSR or Typer-R, they're the same prices currently as our civics.
This is an interesting thread. First thing I'm going to say is that, that article isn't nearly enough for someone to go off of. It would just be a good starting point if you are thinking of doing the swap.
Second, and this is going to **** people off on this site off but honestly, I'm just being realistic. There are about 5 people on this site that have the know how to take on a project like that by themselves. That is a considerably harder swap then your average swap. There is a good chunck of people on this site that have lots of trouble with basic bolt ons. I know that is harsh but I've heared a lot of people on this site that say "I'm want to do this swap" but that is not going to happen. Granted that a lot of people are just dreaming and thats fine. I'm only saying this for one reason, just a warning make sure you know damn well what you are doing before you even try and take on this project. That article only covered the very basic parts of a swap.
Before anyone starts, please be honest with yourselves if you have the skills to do this before get yourself into costly problems, not to mention if you could afford this in the first place. expect this to be $10,000 if you know what you are doing. more if you don't. To take on a project like this you should probably know most of what there is to know about fixing cars. I couldn't take on a swap like that, I'd have to call up a friend to help me out for all the work required in that particlar swap. if you don't know what you are doing you won't really have anyone to ask for help. I'm not going to get into online arguments over this. It is justs some words of adivce, please take it as just that.
Second, and this is going to **** people off on this site off but honestly, I'm just being realistic. There are about 5 people on this site that have the know how to take on a project like that by themselves. That is a considerably harder swap then your average swap. There is a good chunck of people on this site that have lots of trouble with basic bolt ons. I know that is harsh but I've heared a lot of people on this site that say "I'm want to do this swap" but that is not going to happen. Granted that a lot of people are just dreaming and thats fine. I'm only saying this for one reason, just a warning make sure you know damn well what you are doing before you even try and take on this project. That article only covered the very basic parts of a swap.
Before anyone starts, please be honest with yourselves if you have the skills to do this before get yourself into costly problems, not to mention if you could afford this in the first place. expect this to be $10,000 if you know what you are doing. more if you don't. To take on a project like this you should probably know most of what there is to know about fixing cars. I couldn't take on a swap like that, I'd have to call up a friend to help me out for all the work required in that particlar swap. if you don't know what you are doing you won't really have anyone to ask for help. I'm not going to get into online arguments over this. It is justs some words of adivce, please take it as just that.
Swapping an engine that is older than the car is illegal in almost every state in US. Some one said that there is a few people on this site with the knowledge to do this, well no mater how much you know if you haven’t done one the knowledge is nothing. Seams like no one that posted on this thread has done a swap cuz if they did they would know that bolting the engine in the car is very easy, it just takes time. The hard part is the wiring, all the sensors will make your head hurt. I'm doing a GSR swap in to a 5g hatch right now, that’s just about as easy as it gets, its also obd1, the obd2 and later motors have even more sensors and emissions equipment which makes everything even worse. If you read closely it says in the article that the swap is easy MECHANICALLY, didn't saw jack about wires then add the rerouting of the fuel, clutch and coolant hoses not to mention the intake and exhaust manifolds are on opposite sides. I'm sure a shop could do it but it's not a weekend project for anyone on this site. I wouldn't trust Hasport when they say it's easy, they are just trying to sell their product.
i am going to have to agree with leadfoot about the mechanical part being easy. I remove and install jet engines in f-15's for a living and the mechanical part isnt hard.... its all the extra sh*t that goes with it that makes it a pain. However, I know a lot less about engine swaps in new imports then in old jets so pretty much any engine swap is going to be a challenge for me[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] Oh well.... live and learn i guess.
BTW.... is it the emissions that make swapping an old engine in a new car illegal, or is that just what the law says in most states? Where would I find state laws related to vehicles anyway? Thanx in advance[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG]
BTW.... is it the emissions that make swapping an old engine in a new car illegal, or is that just what the law says in most states? Where would I find state laws related to vehicles anyway? Thanx in advance[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG]
well, i personally wouldnt do this swap myself. i wouldn't want to mess up my civic or anything cuz i no i'm not that good. there is this one great shop around here and i'm gonna contact them after new years. i seriously need either a new transmission which honda quoted at 4K or the swap. I believe if i gave the car to a reputable shop then they should be able to do the swap. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Hey big swoll just read the proper technical order and itll be easy [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]Yeah... well you know honda.... all their TO's are in Japanese[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG] BTW... I am envious of you... crewing f-15's are so damned finicky and they make my a$$ itch[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG] Oh well.... now if only i could snag one of those nifty jet engines......hmmmm
Yeah JohnnyLee B18C's are way more user frendly [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] and in the right car it will own big time!
That's alot of money. $10k is like $833.33/month or $208.33/week.
Think of all the pork chops and cigarettes you can buy with that... [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]
Think of all the pork chops and cigarettes you can buy with that... [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]
Has anybody seen this forum? It's all honda swaps. Including this one 
http://www.hondaswap.com/index.php
http://www.hondaswap.com/index.php
10k? i am sure a lot is on labor too... in the mag it does indeed look easy, slap the engine in, connect a few hoses and you are set! i remember back when no one did the swap yet, it was all about the engine was too big and/or the engine ruings the opposite way... yeow... they make it look so easy in the article that it seems you can do the swap long as you have all the parts and a cherry picker!
another thing is.. after all these mumbo jumbo.. has anyone found a relieable source to buy their k20 yet besides ebay?
another thing is.. after all these mumbo jumbo.. has anyone found a relieable source to buy their k20 yet besides ebay?
I thought JDMhondaparts.com had a K20A (ITR) for sale some time ago? Google searches dig up all KINDS of good info . . .
Would a junkyard take a used d-code engine as part of payment on a k-code engine?
Quote:
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Vizyun
I thought JDMhondaparts.com had a K20A (ITR) for sale some time ago? Google searches dig up all KINDS of good info . . .[hr]
what did you search it under? Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Vizyun
I thought JDMhondaparts.com had a K20A (ITR) for sale some time ago? Google searches dig up all KINDS of good info . . .
[hr] [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
i can't find crap, i found one, and it's also on ebay, which the car had front dammage.. don't think i want a engine that was in front dammage. how much is the engine from honda anyway? (hondawerx?)
if you bought everyting for a swap new out the box it would run about 12000....lotta dough! but thats everything brand spanlin new. we got a used engine with most major componants and then bought all new subframe and the foremensiond parts needed that hasport supplied.......no fear! i will have a bundle kit offered with subframe and all parts plus subframe (minus engine) for sale once i get the k20a project done and have some more knowledge to pass on.
Greg
Greg
what about cost of everything besides the engine, tranny and the ecu?
the parts list and cost ill post once our swap project is done.. there is like 3 different ways to do the axels and hubs/brakes,, so ill try to have those out lined as well. rough guess tho..... maybe $2000+ depending what route you take
