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Old Nov 21, 2002
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to xxxx99vtec

First off, I am trying to have a technical discussion with xxx99vtec in an open thread so everyone can read. I'm trying to help you guys out in proving or disproving whether he's for real on his mods or not. Please don't flame in this thread, so it doesn't get locked.

I will repost my response to you, xxxx99vtec, so you can answer.

--------------------------------------------------------

You started to make sense in the beginning of your post, and I was about to gain respect for you, until I read the whole thing.

Ahem, let me explain.

So if jet tunes the ECU for you by you telling them the parts you have, how do you change the ECU once you add more parts? Uh oh, now you gotta yank the ECU back out and send it back to them again?? Don't think so.

Secondly, you can't just plop in a cam gear, cam shaft, and run all of your mods without it EVER seeing a dyno. Let me tell you why.

Start with the cam. Since cams are balanced and made speficlly to run so many degrees overlap, duration, etc.... the measurements and timing must be dead on. An aftermarket cam will generally retard your timing by 4 or even 6 degrees. I'll explain to you later why this is BAD. Which means you also can't just throw on your cam gears and retard it without ever throwing it on a dyno. You'll lose power, bottom line. But you said you retarded the cam gear 3 degrees, which means that with your aftermarket cam and cam gear, you'r now running probably 7+ degrees retarded.... your car would be sputtering horribly. To make matters worse, you got a regrinded cam, and not a billet cam. Regrinded cams change your timing even more than a billet cam would. And regrinds suck.

Now, a little lesson in timing for you.
Advancing or retarding the timing on your cam gear does not just magically move the curve up or down. What you are doing is changing the timing of your intake/exhaust valves. If you retard the timing on a SOHC engine, then you are basically decreasing overlap and changing the time the valves open. However, let me explain why you LOSE power and shouldn't have your cam dialed in for probably more than 2 degrees retard.

When a cam opens the intake valves, it lets in the air/fuel mixture (which you have no clue what yours is). On the compression stroke this valve closes and the mixture is compressed, and then ignited. On the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valves open to let the "combusted" waste out of the cylinder chamber. However, part of this cycle is the intake valves opening AGAIN. This creates a scavaging effect. This helps to rid the cylinder of the waste that is inside. This is called overlap. When you retard your timing as much as you have, you shorten the time of the overlap cycle... in your case too much, making almost no overlap cycle. What this means is that "waste" will be in the cylinder chamber mixing with the fresh new air/fuel mix coming in the intake side. You just lost horsepower because your timing is retarded too much, and the "waste" can't get out of the cylinder.

Now, back to the air/fuel mix. You still can't run all the mods you run without changing your air/fuel mixture. How did you know what to set your aftermarket fuel ratio to without a dyno? With all the mods you have, you'd be running lean as hell, and your engine would be detonating early. So, what is your air/fuel mix? Oh wait, you don't know because you never put your car on a dyno, which means you're full of it, because you can't just magically change your timing and fuel/air mix without going on a dyno.

And you can't just read what someone else did with their cam gear or cams because every car is different. You could take 2 civics and give them both cam shafts and cam gears, and both would end up with completely different timing and air/fuel mixtures because each car is different, and the measurements required for timing are so precise.

Again, your block is ported and polished. Again, what method was used? What degree angle backcut was used on the valve job?

And now you're having your block milled. Did you know that this will ONCE AGAIN retard the timing of your aftermarket cam by as much as 4 degrees? Which means you will have to GO ON A DYNO to find out what you need to change your timing setting to.

And now you're telling me I'm wrong about the SOHC and it's limits to revving high. Yes, people destroke their engines. That shortens the bore and stroke in the bottom end. That changes NOTHING about your rockers/followers, which again, are the main limiting factor in why you can't rev to 10,000rpm. The rocker/followers are too large and would snap under that much revving. Why? Because they have to reach further than a DOHC since only one cam is running both the intake and exhaust rockers/followers.

As for knife edging the crank, you are just plain wrong. Knifing the crank is not done to rev faster or higher. It is done to decrease windage losses when spinning through the oil mist in the crank case. This frees up maybe a couple horsepower at MOST. Yes, it allows the engine to spin a bit more freely because of less weight. However, there is a negative effect to this. Because you have to take weight off the counterbalances to do this, more revving would cause underbalance and even vibratory stress on the engine. It's fine if you have a racing engine and don't worry about replacing parts, but it sucks if you have a daily driver, because you will have to fix it more often than not. Those weights are on the crank for a reason. Balance is important in something that spins 60-120 times a second.

And they don't knife the crank to reduce turbo lag. Turbo lag is caused by not enough exhaust fumes to spool the turbo. The crank has NOTHING to do with how much exhaust fumes are spinning the turbo, nor does it affect the rate with which the turbo spools up or spins.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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xxx99vtec, your taking a huge risk with all those mods on your car. Why dont you just take the time to listen and try to understand what someone else is trying to warn you about before you blow all that money?
I dont think you want to end up with a fcuked up car with s2000 laughing his azz off saying 'I told you so.'

Edit: If your wrong, just admit it and be glad you learned something. I just don't want big ego's taking over this convo.
This person seems to have alot of money so I would like to see whats possible on our cars when you have the funds to go all out. Hes trying to do something many of us cant, so I would like to see where he ends up, even if it doesn't go in the direction he wanted to. Lets learn from his successes and his failures.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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we know S2000man01
he has a long history w/ this site and people here, but not w/ me though
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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******99vtec, is no longer a member here. He has once again been exiled. So, stay tuned until he attempts a return.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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thank you. that guy is an idiot.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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S2000man01 and xxxx99vtec (assuming he gets to answer) - I'm not doubting what either one of you are saying because I don't know that much about engines. My question is, who am I supposed to believe? I'm not flaming, but do you guys have any special qualifications that would make your statements more credible? What I'm getting at is this -- I go to performance shop A and ask a technical question. Performance shop A tells me that A+B=C. I take that info and go to performance shop B. Performance shop B tells me performance shop A is wrong and that A+B<>C, but A+A=B+C. So, then I ask around which performance shop to listen to, and friend 1 says that performance shop A knows what they're talking about, and friend 2 disagrees. Do you see what I'm getting at? If one of you happens to be a mechanical engineer or your full time job is building race cars, then that would make your statements more credible. However, for someone like myself, both of you sound like you know what you're talking about, whereas it could all be a BS as long as you pick the right words and make it sound cool. For instance I could blow smoke up someone's a$$ who doesn't even know how to check their oil, and they would never know the difference. See what I'm saying? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG]
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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He does have some knowledge, but he's getting some misinformation from somewhere. I also just wish he'd get his facts straight. I do think he has some of what he has done, but other things not, since they would REQUIRE a dyno for tuning. He also is on track about getting the free floating cylinder walls reinforced in the block to prep for higher horsepower.

He's got some ideas, but I think he needs to just come clean with what's actually done vs what isn't done YET.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: Blk4blk2k1
******99vtec, is no longer a member here. He has once again been exiled. So, stay tuned until he attempts a return.[hr]
and you told us to be civil...
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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[hr]And they don't knife the crank to reduce turbo lag. Turbo lag is caused by not enough exhaust fumes to spool the turbo. The crank has NOTHING to do with how much exhaust fumes are spinning the turbo, nor does it affect the rate with which the turbo spools up or spins.[hr]
I'm not exactly a wrench head either.......but I knew this......
I think ***99vtec seems like a good guy, and props to him for cracking the top end open.......
I just think he needs to get his story straight......
happy tunning
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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welcome back black99vtec er....... xxxx99vtec, er......fast 99vtec yes that is it. Honestly I like what is going on here, it is the first time since the beginning that we acutally are having a good dsicussion, then as always somebody gets banned because a mod thinks he is wrong, WTF is that about, what did xxxx99vtec do wrong to get banned.....NOTHING??

s2000man and fast99vtec aren't fighting they are simply stating to each other their own pieces of knowledge they have either learned, taught themselves, or picked up along the way.

I for one am, for once in a long time, happy to read fully through these posts between these two people, I am getting some huge information and I am really liking it.

One thing I would like to know is did you have your car dyno tuned when you had all the extra cam work done, because that is were s2000man is really correct, you have to have that done in order to have your car running its best and correct...

Keep it up guys this is good!!

Joe
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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You know, f**k all of you who trash him because you all think he's lying or not posting pictures. All the flaming and he still comes back and talks civilized as to what he's trying to accomplish. At least he's got the ballz/$$ to go out and do something. I bet 98% of you couldn't take apart your motor let alone change your own oil. So stop jumping on the bandwagon and just let him tell us what he's doing. When the time comes and it's complete then i'm sure he'll post slips and dyno stats.

When Galileo said the planets revolved around the Sun and not the Earth, people outcast him. Now look at us. Some things may not SEEM possible, but there are always other methods to go about things and other subsitutes to make it possible.

Also why the hell are we banning him? Is he condoning the USA or using racial slurs to put people down? Is he posting obsene pictures or child pornography? If reading his threads are a waste of your time - then don't f**king read it. SIMPLE. People who DO wish to participate in the discussion would obviously voice it.

S2000man and XXXX99vtec... may the best man win.[IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG]
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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Well my background and info comes from what I've learned on forums (Thanks UL, from S2ki.com) and read in books. It's a hobby for me, and though I certainly don't know it all, I do have a decent knowledge of import motors. I also build/work on import motors as a hobby. Most of the information I've been using in this discussion is straight from books I've read, and things I've done. I've even discussed it with a mechanic or two from King Motorsports. (North American Mugen distrubutor)

I agree that xxxxx99vtec has some knowledge, but some of the information he has is wrong.

xxx99vtec, I think that while it's certainly possible to have all the mods you have done, some of them don't make sense, were done in the wrong order, or couldn't have been done without some dyno tuning.

I am willing to stretch and believe you have some things done, however, you can't have gotten all of this done without dyno tuning your car. If you did not dyno tune your car, and you actually have all of this done, then you are seriously losing power and not making the power you should be. Your engine would be gagging at higher rpms, and your air/fuel mixture is probably causing detonation. (which may be where much of the wear on your pistons came from)

If you truly have the mods you say you do, then get it to a dyno, now. And get it tuned. Then show us your gains, and post your dyno sheets here.

Bottom line, I do think you have some of the things done to your car that you say, but not all of them. AGain, because you'd HAVE to have dyno tuned your car for it to even run right. One big issue I've brought up is also the fact that you have not told me your air/fuel ratio. And that's important because without dyno tuning and adjusting that properly, you are probably running very lean. And causing detonation.

Also, I highly recommend AGAINST knifing your crank since you want to keep your car as a daily driver. Also, why did you get new rods when the ones that came in your car were forged to begin with? You should have just gotten them shotpeened.

You also keep changing your sig quick, and adding things which would have been hard to do since yesterday. Cuz now you say your block has the gaurd and you have your pistons and rods in. When you add a block gaurd, the entire block must be milled. And you can't mill your block and NOT throw it on a dyno to tune it and measure what changes you need to make to your cam shaft/gear timing. Milling the block changes too much as far as measurements and you have to rebalance and remeasure everything. (piston to valve clearance, compression ratio, etc, etc) Milling your block generally retards your cam timing about 6 degrees. So don't tell me you got your block gaurd in, because you didn't.

That's why people don't believe you... because you put stuff in your sig that you can't even have done yet.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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Excluding a couple instances, i've never had major problems w/ anyone on this site. I like both s2000man and fast99vtec, i'd like to pm one of them sometime when the opporunity arises.......I don't see a war like some ppl do. Healthy, active discussion. Its a good thing, and an even better thing for us to read about in the forum. Hey, i might learn something. One thing I have been shaking my head at lately (in disbelief) is xxxx99vtec's banning....was he a sacrificial lamb here, to show everyone "don't mess around"....i don't get that. But im not really angry or anything, just a bit curious.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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A lot of people don't believe me about my car. I know how it feels. Shoe pics
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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Yes, shoe pics indeed.



What I don’t get is why people actually stick up for this guy. I can get the point of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, but he loses that benefit after the 3rd banning WITHOUT any proof of his claims what so ever... over almost half a year. Quit living in your fantasy worlds.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: HondaGuru
Yes, shoe pics indeed.



[hr]



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Old Nov 21, 2002
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Just a suggestuon to you xxxx99vtec, learn to spell and use proper sentences and punctuation. People will take your more seriously. Take the time to read your posts over to make sure they make sense. Its a lot easier to belive someone who can write properly.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: JDog2001CivicEX
welcome back black99vtec er....... xxxx99vtec, er......fast 99vtec yes that is it. Honestly I like what is going on here, it is the first time since the beginning that we acutally are having a good dsicussion, then as always somebody gets banned because a mod thinks he is wrong, WTF is that about, what did xxxx99vtec do wrong to get banned.....NOTHING??[hr]
Please get your facts straight before spouting off accusations.
1st: We don't ban members because we feel they are wrong, members get baned for ignoring warnings due to certain threads repeatedly posted.

Quote
[hr]
s2000man and fast99vtec aren't fighting they are simply stating to each other their own pieces of knowledge they have either learned, taught themselves, or picked up along the way.[hr]
Agreed they weren't fighting; however, several members chose to destroy their posts with flaming and what-not (which is not tolerated) which is why they were locked/removed.

Quote
[hr]I for one am, for once in a long time, happy to read fully through these posts between these two people, I am getting some huge information and I am really liking it.[hr]
I'm glad you enjoy reading and learning, happy posting.

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Old Nov 21, 2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: n00dleboy
When Galileo said the planets revolved around the Sun and not the Earth, people outcast him. Now look at us. Some things may not SEEM possible, but there are always other methods to go about things and other subsitutes to make it possible.[hr]


Quote
[hr]Also why the hell are we banning him? Is he condoning the USA or using racial slurs to put people down? Is he posting obsene pictures or child pornography? If reading his threads are a waste of your time - then don't f**king read it. SIMPLE. People who DO wish to participate in the discussion would obviously voice it.[hr]
No and No.

Reading these threads is not a waste of time, but if you haven't seen some of ****99vtec's other threads:
Will have pics up soon, and a week later still nothing = pointless post which was removed.
Double posting = same thread/topic in numerous forums
Ignored warnings
These are the reasons that led to his removal.


Dynamic IP's are a beautiful thing, and are held in high regards to those who have been banished.

I'm sure once members start flaming in this thread, it too will be locked. Its just a matter of 2 clicks for me.



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Old Nov 21, 2002
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He has started another thread and continues to spout out things he can't do, and half truths.

I retract my prevous statement of actually having some belief in him. AFter reading his last thread, he's full of it.

I say ban the guy every damn time he shows up, because every damn thing he says is BS. He comes out with half truths and makes up a bunch of stuff that he can't even do without doing something else. He claims things that aren't possible, and just BS's his way with what automotive knowledge he has.

I'm done with him, and I think you guys should be too.
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Old Nov 21, 2002
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Another one?
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