why engine swap ????
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why engine swap ????
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG] stock civics run about 17.5 and with an engine swap you go to about 15.2 around that why not just buy a turbo and nos thats proably faster 1.5-2 sec with nos 1.5-2 with the turbo the second setup would be a lot cheaper and look alot nicer
Tell me what you don't like about yourself....
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Yes........but if you get the swap.......then put a turbo and nitrous on top of that and see how fast you can go! 12's maybe?
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 17.5 is slow as hell for a civic.... besides, by the time you get your turbo and internals installed, then add nitrous, you'll be spending about the same amount of money, and the engine potential will be maxed out... besides that, DOHC engines (no sense swapping in another Single Cam) are going to respond better to modifications. One of the big complaints about these D17's is that no matter what bolt ons people try, nothing seems to make a difference, and there are no internals to speak of yet.
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Rep Power: 372 well when you swap with a k20 you throw 200hp at the wheels and with a turbo that sure to drop your time to about 10. so you do what ya wanna do but i know what i am doing.
INJEN
INJEN
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i understand the potential but most dont do more once the swap and lets all be real how many are realy gonna make your car run 10's this aint the f and the f and be a daily driver so dont try to say you are ill be real im aiming for high 12 and i will be happy 
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We went on this canyon run today with S2000's...and DAMN Civics are sooooooooooooooo underpowered [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG]
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[hr]Originally posted by: BlackSI
people do it cause civics are slow[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: BlackSI
people do it cause civics are slow[hr]
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i don't get it though. if you can barley fit a k20 in there, how are you going to fit a turbo as well? i can understand adding nitrous because that doesn't really take up much enging space, but a turbo? people are having a hard enough time fitting it in with the stock engine from what i've seen. if you're going to swap an engine, i think that's taking up all your space.
and it will not cost 10k to add turbo, nitrous and some internals, where it did cost 10k for that first k20 swap, and if i'm not mistaken, they undercharged big time on that.
and it will not cost 10k to add turbo, nitrous and some internals, where it did cost 10k for that first k20 swap, and if i'm not mistaken, they undercharged big time on that.
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From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Let's examine some pics. This is a complete view of the engine bay that I took after I installed my new C&R radiator:
As you can see, there is a good 6-8 inches of space separating the exhaust side of the engine from the firewall. PLENTY of room for a fat turbo. Right now I have one of the car alarm sirens mounted on the firewall, but that can be easily relocated elsewhere. If I reroute the intake filter to beneath the wheelwell, there is even more space to the right to add some goodies. As it is, my engine bay looks a lot less cramped than it did when it had the stock D17A2 in it.
As you can see, there is a good 6-8 inches of space separating the exhaust side of the engine from the firewall. PLENTY of room for a fat turbo. Right now I have one of the car alarm sirens mounted on the firewall, but that can be easily relocated elsewhere. If I reroute the intake filter to beneath the wheelwell, there is even more space to the right to add some goodies. As it is, my engine bay looks a lot less cramped than it did when it had the stock D17A2 in it.
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[hr]Originally posted by: injencivic
well when you swap with a k20 you throw 200hp at the wheels and with a turbo that sure to drop your time to about 10. so you do what ya wanna do but i know what i am doing.
INJEN[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: injencivic
well when you swap with a k20 you throw 200hp at the wheels and with a turbo that sure to drop your time to about 10. so you do what ya wanna do but i know what i am doing.
INJEN[hr]
2. No you arnt going to see 10s. Please send me some of whatever you are smoking. I will reimburse you.
3. Based on those facts, Id dare to say no, you dont know what you are doing.
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From: Car Audioville, Quebec, Canada
Rep Power: 0 Swap for more power...
I hope y'all know that the D17 rev for rev makes MORE power than a B16 and just a hair less than B18C1 .....The one and only advantage of the B-Series engines is the Dual Overhead cams which allow them tosafely rev higher....a D series actually has better flowing heads.
A D17 non-vtec with it's 9:5 compression ratio still makes more power than a B series right up to 6500Rpms..
Why swap...the D series is a pretty good platform to work on.. the 3 major power killers are the cats...the ECU and the intake manifold... conquering those you can open up a fair bit more juice...I'm working on Ideas with Tkmotion on a custom intake manifold....all we need to find is a shop with a Mandrel bending machine for aluminum and we're all set...
I hope y'all know that the D17 rev for rev makes MORE power than a B16 and just a hair less than B18C1 .....The one and only advantage of the B-Series engines is the Dual Overhead cams which allow them tosafely rev higher....a D series actually has better flowing heads.
A D17 non-vtec with it's 9:5 compression ratio still makes more power than a B series right up to 6500Rpms..
Why swap...the D series is a pretty good platform to work on.. the 3 major power killers are the cats...the ECU and the intake manifold... conquering those you can open up a fair bit more juice...I'm working on Ideas with Tkmotion on a custom intake manifold....all we need to find is a shop with a Mandrel bending machine for aluminum and we're all set...
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Rep Power: 0 most mechanics and companies that build up race cars here in town agree that a single cam should do better in the 1/4 than a twin cam engine - just a thought - and for you people racing your cars right now, why not just chill and enjoy them - break it in and wait till around 30,000 than try some bolts ons and work, probably see a bigger difference.
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[hr]Originally posted by: mohawkboom
Swap for more power...
I hope y'all know that the D17 rev for rev makes MORE power than a B16 and just a hair less than B18C1 .....The one and only advantage of the B-Series engines is the Dual Overhead cams which allow them tosafely rev higher....a D series actually has better flowing heads.
A D17 non-vtec with it's 9:5 compression ratio still makes more power than a B series right up to 6500Rpms..
[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: mohawkboom
Swap for more power...
I hope y'all know that the D17 rev for rev makes MORE power than a B16 and just a hair less than B18C1 .....The one and only advantage of the B-Series engines is the Dual Overhead cams which allow them tosafely rev higher....a D series actually has better flowing heads.
A D17 non-vtec with it's 9:5 compression ratio still makes more power than a B series right up to 6500Rpms..
[hr]
REALLY? Let’s look at that closer, and more in depth shall we?
Here we have a dyno graph from one of your esteemed members. The thread I pulled this from even came to the consensus that the numbers were a bit high, even knowing that the dyno in question was performed on a modified EX with catback and intake.
And here we see a STOCK 1999 B16A2 equiped Civic Si making a baseline dyno run.
Now given that comparison one can conclude that if the D17 revved to 8K, it would outpace the B16 right? Wrong. As you can see the power curve BEFORE the aggressive cams come on the B16 are somewhat similar to the D17, but you also have to keep in mind that while the B16 is running on the econo pansy cam profiles up till 5600 RPM, the D17 is already on its aggressive profile. What does that mean exactly? That the D17s power output shadows the B16s ECOMONY profile. Not to mention the fact that revving the D17 out higher would be completely useless due to it not being balanced or even having the necessary hardware (i.e. valve springs, retainers, etc...) for an 8K+ redline. E.g. you would have a LOSS of power by doing so. I'd also like to point out the fact that it does NOT mimic the B16s power curve up till 6500 RPMs, but rather, fails to keep up above 5600, almost 1K lower then you thought.
And we didnt touch on gearing either.
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Rep Power: 0 Pull up the Dyno from a DX/LX and have look see as well.. Very similar power right up to 6500....Rev for rev the D's have more potential..but they'll never rev high enough to match the power of a B16/18.... The highest a streetable SOHC D series can safely rev is about 7500 and that would require new valvesprings and retainers..ECU modding...and might not be balanced well enough...but from 1200-6500RPM it can easily out do a B16 if the intake manifold is changed to a Plenum type intake like the B's have, reprogram the ECU for more power over emmissions tuning like it is now.. and get rid of 1 of the cats..match the B series compression as well and it'll make a fair bit more torque because of the longer stroke as well...But peak power does not have the same same potential due to rev limits and the 3 other factors.
a Custom intake manifold is in the works...Hondata Stage 3 can be made to work on our ECU's and HP headers are wicked [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]. Cams like on all Fuel injected vehicles is pretty limited in Duration, and High lifts are a little dangerous without some serious valve springs.. For the cost of a B18C12 n the D17 can be made to produce about 145Bhp and over 125 ft.lbs of torque peak... For the cost of a B16 about 135ish HP and 118 or so tq. JE pistons has a job number for 11:1 compression pistons for D17 which will increase the torque noticably. to squeeze any more power out, new cams, port work, better springs and better engine balancing would be needed which gets very expensive.
New intake manifold $1200CAD
HP Headers $500CAD
Hondata Stage 3 $1400CAD
Dyno tuning $500CAD
$3600 for about 125 Whp
some good port work and 5 angle valve job $1300CAD
New pistons $800CAD
new cams $400-600 for regrind
new Valve springs and retainers $400CAD
End result about 160 Bhp
Pretty expensive...but you get to beat on some stock B16's with a D series because you have a bit of a torque advantage...as as you may know..torque is what moves the car [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
$4500US for the same as stock B 16..but with more torque
Oops okay... a CAI and exhaust system as well.. so say $5300US
a Custom intake manifold is in the works...Hondata Stage 3 can be made to work on our ECU's and HP headers are wicked [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]. Cams like on all Fuel injected vehicles is pretty limited in Duration, and High lifts are a little dangerous without some serious valve springs.. For the cost of a B18C12 n the D17 can be made to produce about 145Bhp and over 125 ft.lbs of torque peak... For the cost of a B16 about 135ish HP and 118 or so tq. JE pistons has a job number for 11:1 compression pistons for D17 which will increase the torque noticably. to squeeze any more power out, new cams, port work, better springs and better engine balancing would be needed which gets very expensive.
New intake manifold $1200CAD
HP Headers $500CAD
Hondata Stage 3 $1400CAD
Dyno tuning $500CAD
$3600 for about 125 Whp
some good port work and 5 angle valve job $1300CAD
New pistons $800CAD
new cams $400-600 for regrind
new Valve springs and retainers $400CAD
End result about 160 Bhp
Pretty expensive...but you get to beat on some stock B16's with a D series because you have a bit of a torque advantage...as as you may know..torque is what moves the car [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
$4500US for the same as stock B 16..but with more torque
Oops okay... a CAI and exhaust system as well.. so say $5300US
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