randomguy

So I've been seening threads about turbos on this site for while. And lately a few claim to have built a custom turbo because people like Greddy and HKS don't think our engines are worth the effort (I'm starting to believe them...). And so far the report on Gude is not good, although Spider has reported good gains from a port a polish. Anyway, here are my questions: Is this possible, does it make any sense and what are the chances of killing the engine?

Step 1 - Preparation: Install guages to monitor air/fuel, boost and intake temp and install AFC.
Step 2 - Choose a moderate turbo (t25 maybe?), have manifold, downpipe and exhaust tubing custom made. Use something like 3" mandrel bent tubing with a new cat and Magnaflow turbo muffler.
Step 3 - Fabricate the tubing for the air filter and the run to the intake (using a BOV of course, but no intercooler yet)
Step 4 - Run the turbo at 2-3psi (I know this is really low... but its better than atmospheric pressure!) and tune the fuel with the AFC, using the info from the air/fuel gauge to find the limit of the stock fuel system.

Maybe I'm smokin' a little too much, but it seems like you could set this up for around $2K. That's as much as the Gude package, but you've started something with much more potential. Upgrade the fuel system, add and intercooler and turn up the boost. It seems like $4000 is the middel ground for the current turbo "options". Paying that all in one shot is way too much for me, but $2000 would get you going, give you a little more power (25hp?) and new toys.

It's probably obvious by now that I've never installed a turbo, so for those of you that do have experience, what do you think?

JoeB16

"And so far the report on Gude is not good, "

I told you so.

randomguy

JoeB16 -

Do you have a 7th gen civic?

JoeB16

no.

Spider883

iTrader: (2)

gude sucks.. get it custom done like me..

JoeB16

this is what ive been saying since day 1. so to all the nay-sayers and that fool that works for gude... I TOLD YOUR DUMB ***!

trevor

............

Personally, I didn't believe you.
If you had our car you'd understand. You just hope and hope for some kind of good news.
Do we ever get any. NO.
It just sucks.
I test drove the RSX-S yesterday. Holy shiet. I am really leaning twards trading in the civic for the
type-s. We just have no potential. Thats all there is to it.
I love the looks of our cars, but power.....The k20 swap isn't even working.
about the only way to go is nitrous. Which you only get to use at the burst of a moment.
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JoeB16

well, thatll learn ya.

randomguy

OK so we've established that Gude sucks.

Any thoughts on the turbo? Is it worth it?

Or should I sell the 7th gen, buy a 5th or 6th, swap the motor and THEN get a turbo???!!!!!

bo0sT

The RSX type S is a pretty fast car, and that motor does have more aftermarket support.. but there is a huge difference in aftermarket support, and performance potential. I know you can take that car further, but only cuz it's dohc.. and comes with more hp and torque stock. It's actually pretty difficult to extract hp from.. and it's not a friendly motor for people who have aftermarket parts in mind. For that amount of money.. I'd be looking at a base model WRX, or a used last generation RX-7. The toyota supra, rx-7, and subaru WRX can be taken over the limit... parts for them are expensive.. but you're getting more hp for the dollar. Catbacks for that car put 10hp to the wheels. I have a cousin that put a 3,700 dollar performance package on the car (turbo upgrade, catback, pullies, up-pipe etc..) and he's pushing like 350hp.. i saw him run a high 12 about 3 weeks ago. The RSX-S won't be pulling that off for the same amount of money unless you got one seat and no interior, along with some flex-a-lite windows... The point is.. if you're gonna trade your civic in for something with more potential.. do your homework and go all the way.

NeoMagus

wtf are you talking about. People are getting 15-20hp from just an intake.

If anything the K series are the best to extract power from.

randomguy

Boosted -

I see your point, but it all comes down to money:
Sell the Civic : +$12K
Buy a bare bones WRX : -$24K
Upgrades: -$5k

Now I've spent $29K on the WRX and still have $17K to pay for. If I'm going to spend $29K on the WRX maybe I could get something better..... Pretty soon you've got a 500hp NSX sitting in your garage and the bank is looking for you. See what I mean?

AEMcivic

Regarding the original question....
From all that I've heard, it's not worth going turbo on the D17. People are spending upwards of $4000 to have custom turbo kits made, and they can only run 5lbs of boost on a stock motor, which only gives you about 50 or maybe 60hp(on a good day). There was even a case where some guy spent lots of money for a very nice t4 ball-bearing custom turbo setup and rebuilt his motor so he could boost 11psi, and he only dynoed at 190hp! That's a shitload of money for only 70hp. So, can we get a custom turbo setup for pretty cheap? Yes! If you have the know how to put together your own kit and install it, you can probably come in under $2000. Will you gain a significant amount of horsepower? No, the gains associated with the D17 powerplant are nowhere near what they were with the previous gen civics. The only reason I'd ever turbo my 2k1, is to have that cool BOV sound!

anibal

iTrader: (1)

Hey Todd, stop flaming Corey[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]j/k...I know that with some research we could get good power from D17.

randomguy

Thanks for the input AEMcivic. 11 pounds of boost and 190hp sounds like bad news to me [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG]. If I was looking to build a fast car, I definitely wouldn't start with a 7th gen civic, but since I've already got one and want to play around with a turbo, why not? I know the gains would be small, but my biggest problem is that I would be buying experience more than performance if I decide to do this. And $2K would get me closer to paying for a WRX.......

AEMcivic

LOL Anibal
I'm not flaming turbo boy! Although he does need to quit f*cking around and finish rebuilding his new bottom end. I love driving his car. It's not that fast, but that thing pulls like a ***** once it spools up!! And I love the look on people's faces when you blow off next to them. Most of the time, they're like, "What's that noise? Is there something wrong with your car?" LOL

ilv4nos

yeah the usual turbo BS alright....i regret now even buying my civic....lx AT...slow as hell...oh well....i guess i just bought for the look now...already like 2500 invested for an AT....shows ya how bright i am....geez people depression here

ecpx

the 7th gen civic has a returnless fuel system. to properly turbo the motor you have to tap the fuel system and add a return line to syphon off any extra fuel you spray. obviously a turboed motor requires more fuel to create more power, so you need a new fuel pump as well. i've considered having my car turboed. daryl *** (mechanic behind the fastest FWD neon and the new turboed neon from dodge) lives in my town and will turbo a 7 gen for a little over 4,000 bucks (intercooler included). his setup gives about 60% - 70% more power, depending on how aggressive (stupid) you want to be. he also has speced out a setup for the new Si. hope this helps. also if anyone is interested he can custom make just the turbo manifold for you, using my car as a template.

randomguy

I'm painfully aware of the returnless fuel system on the 7th gen civics. I would like to get something mild going just to see what the pontential is. I was hoping that the stock fuel system along with a piggy back fuel controller would be able to support a couple pounds (2 or 3) of boost just to get things in place before replacing the fuel system and adding an intercooler. If someone knows some specifics about the limits of the fuel system, please say something. If the stock fuel system won't support a couple pounds of boost, I might as well call it quits now.

I am interested in the turbo manifold and downpipe. Do you have an info on what kind of design he would use for something like a Turbonetics T3 turbo? Any estimates on cost?

ecpx

basically he builds each manifold himself for each job he does. as far as tubing goes, he can use whatever size you want. you don't replace the fuel system, you ADD a return line, it's not brain surgery. and as far as cost goes, i can ask.

AEMcivic

You can always add bigger injectors and a piggy back fuel management system.

ricerocket

y not jsut get a car that has turbo....dsm's, alltrac, supras or rotary

SuzukaBlueCivic

i think it can be done...

a turbo ($300)
HF or custom manifold ($300)
downpipe/other piping (exhaust shop $100)
intercooler (custom made for $250)
bov ($150)
brass T / pipes / splitters / misc - $100
need to create a return fuel line
coolant lines tapping into the cooling system
boost gauge, air/fuel gauge ($100)
some sort of engine management like greddy emanage ($300)
MSD for Spark
Larger injectors (just to make sure)
Vortech Fuel Managament Unit ($150) (i dont think we'll need a new fuel pump.. this should be fine to manage it)
hmm...
check valves so you dont get the check engine light.. hides boost from stock ecu
you can get forged pistons so you dont break a piston ($400)
switch over to OBD1 (less problems $200)
i think thats it...
i think it can be done for less than $2k for sure!
oh... $400 to get it properly tuned/tested on a dyno at a performance shop.

i already bought a turbo.. i'm gonna do it slowly... custom made manifold is next.

RockfordFosgateBwoy

RSX has the same problem with the fuel system, but guess what, greddy's got a piggy back comp that will take care of things. Actually the latest turboed toyota matrix has 180 hp and ridiculously high compression and it can handle 8lbs no problem. Paticence is a virtue guys, use it....

RF Bwoy

bhaz413

iTrader: (1)

our cars may lack the power like other civics, but its not allways about the power. Personally, I like the way the car looks. I like the way it handles. Granted our engines have hampsters running around under the bay, I still like the way it performs. I also think that our EX's pull alot harder then the 6th gen EX. I know for a fact because I owned one.

RallyEX

First of all I'd just like to say that this topic has been overdiscussed. Talk about it all you want, but til I see some pictures I'm not believin anybody. Secondly I'd like to note that HKS has a civic running 7psi on stock fuel system and is getting 60 horse.

If a guy built his D17 motor (as was previously stated), and boosted it to 11psi, and only got 190 whp, WHO CARES! Guess what?!? That's about 70 more WHP than you have... Now.. I'm sure that if properly tuned, he could achieve higher numbers.

People here say it's not worth turbo'ing a 7th gen. People also said the same the about the 5th and 6th Gen D16's. Guess what, someone did it, and now it's very common. People also said that man would never leave the earth's atmosphere.

If you want a turbo: BUILD IT.
If you have a turbo: SHOW ME PICS AND I'LL BELIEVE IT
If you want to talk trash: Go to the local Dairy Queen parking lot here where I live at about 1AM on any given night and you can go talk trash with the ricers downtown. Because all they do is TALK about what they want and when they see a better car drive by, they say that car is slow because they want what that guy has and they are jealous.

Here's a little saying I use: Do what you want, and let other people want what you've got.

To JoeB16: Keep layin the smackdown on the idiots, keep up the good work. You were right and now they only wish they'd listened to you.

To the idiot who won't show his turbo pics on the site because he doesn't like Grey: You sir, are a liar. I will call you a liar until I see pictures. Or I see it in person.

AEMcivic

I'm sorry, I think you were too busy talking **** to see my point. Yeah, ok, so he has 70 more hp than a stock EX, and his system was fully tuned. But for a sixth of the money he spent on the turbo setup, I can go out, rebuild my bottom end, spray a 100 shot and have more hp than he does. Yes, a turbo adds hp, any idiot knows that!! But with the 7th gens, it's not the best bang for your buck. (at least not yet)

ricerocket

true very true...and customs turbo's aren't always the best thing for our engines....you have to make sure u get some1 that knows wut he is doing...

RallyEX

All I'm saying is this: Most generally, people tend to criticize something they don't even have, or have a lower form of. Perhaps this gentleman is proud of his car, and I am happy that he achieved his goal. A turbo 7th gen is an accomplishment, regardless of the amount of success achieved from the HP increase.

I'm not talking smack, I'm just saying that too many people follow the stereotype and they criticize something they don't have the money/patience/time/knowledge/motivation to carry out. So therefore, they criticize.

Sure he may have 6 times the amount of money in his setup, but he doesn't have to fill a bottle, and he was being different. I give credit where credit is due. A 7th gen with Nitrous Oxide is pretty common, especially on this site now. However the thought, engineering and knowledge required to build a custom turbo setup is more impressive in my mind, and the turbo seems to be less volatile once tuned properly.

trevor

.........

I'm not wishing I listened to anyone, I didn't spend thousands, I just said I will believe him when I see it, there is now proof, and I believe him. Am I an idiot for that? I don't believe so.

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