VW W8
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its like 4.7 liters or something... doesn't have as much power as bmw's and audi's v8s... but the VW is way smaller.. making it fit in a mid size sedan. there is no way the other bigger v8s will fit in the passats engine bay.
heard somewhere that this is the first v8 in a mid sized... and comes with everything.. very very loaded. and $$$ too i'm guessing
i just don't like the look of the passat.. i like the jetta and golf
ooo also that the cylinders are at 15 degrees to make the engine small.. or something.
heard somewhere that this is the first v8 in a mid sized... and comes with everything.. very very loaded. and $$$ too i'm guessing
i just don't like the look of the passat.. i like the jetta and golf
ooo also that the cylinders are at 15 degrees to make the engine small.. or something.
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Rep Power: 0 Holy damn, 4.7L?? That sure is impressive........... but it certainly won't be the first to do it, since Mercedes-Benz CLK55 (mid-size, based on C-Class) has the 5.5L V8. Come think about it, I noticed that VW likes to talk a lot of crap, and exaggerate their ingenuity on their ads. Gotta love their latest one about the Eurovan--"Sumo sized, ninja reflexes." I doubt that van could even outhandle a Honda Oddessey.
Output-wise, 270HP from a 4.7L is rather disappointing. But then again, if it has 300lb+ of torque, it might put it close to the 4.3L Mercedes-Benz engine.
But ratings aside, I wonder if it will be able to beat top performers, like Acura TL Type-S and Pontiac GrandPrix GTP? I won't even compare it with BMW 540i & Lexus GS430.....
Also, I wonder if people are willing to pay premium price for a... Volkswagon. Passat with V6 is already expensive enough. I guess since companies that are playing catch up are having succcess with speedy cars (ie - 3.2TL, Altima, MPV, MDX, etc), Volkswagon decided to have a stab at it too. Since their current VR6 is no match for the Japanese counterparts, I guess they decided to do it the American way--no replacement for displacement. But if a Passat is going to be in the BMW 330i territory........... are people going to bite?
Output-wise, 270HP from a 4.7L is rather disappointing. But then again, if it has 300lb+ of torque, it might put it close to the 4.3L Mercedes-Benz engine.
But ratings aside, I wonder if it will be able to beat top performers, like Acura TL Type-S and Pontiac GrandPrix GTP? I won't even compare it with BMW 540i & Lexus GS430.....
Also, I wonder if people are willing to pay premium price for a... Volkswagon. Passat with V6 is already expensive enough. I guess since companies that are playing catch up are having succcess with speedy cars (ie - 3.2TL, Altima, MPV, MDX, etc), Volkswagon decided to have a stab at it too. Since their current VR6 is no match for the Japanese counterparts, I guess they decided to do it the American way--no replacement for displacement. But if a Passat is going to be in the BMW 330i territory........... are people going to bite?
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You guys don't cease to amaze me...how are you going to compare a German awd, 8-cyl car to a Japanese FWD, 6-cyl model? I understand your loyalty to Hondas and other Asian cars: They are very reliable, sporty, stylish and respond well to modifying--not to mention the aftermarket support.
That said, c'mon, it's like comparing apples to oranges...oh, and it does beat the CL Type-S:
VW Passat W8 review with pics and stats
Acura CL Type-S review with pics and stats
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Rep Power: 0 And if you guys think that a $37K+ VW is outrageous or unrealistic, just check this latest Uber-VW:
Public intro of VW's new Phaeton at Geneva Auto Show
Public intro of VW's new Phaeton at Geneva Auto Show
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Rep Power: 0 Well, I don't know about you, but I'd much rather have an ACURA badge, than a VW badge. VW has a lowclass status image, at least traditionally.... don't mistake it for Mercedes, or even a BMW. They're really known for making crappy cars during WWII.
Having said that, they are definitey more upscale............ but still not considered luxery brand (whereas Audi is). I understand VW is trying upset this, but what the marketting people conceived VW to be, and what the consumers concieve VW to be, are two different things.
I don't think it's really comparing apples to oranges.
Despite the bigger engine, more horsepower and more torque, it barely pulls ahead of the Acura TL Type-S. A person who is interested in a new TL Type-S is the "value shopper" looking for a cheaper alternative to the traditional luxery brands, such as M-B, BMW & Lexus. No doubt the Passat W8 will be on their mind, as it is set for that particular market. This also includes the Infinity G35, Caddalic CTS, Lincoln LS8, Volvos, and other "lesser" popular brands. I'm sure if VW could make a naturally aspirated V6 under 4.0L that would pump out more then 250HP, they would--but they can't, hence the new W8. It's the only way they know how to keep up with the Japanese (besides using turbo).
Let's face it. The VR6 is underpowered (even the new upcoming one). The Audi's 3.0L is also underpowered. Heck, even their 4.2L for A6 is underpowered. So is their 2.0L for Golfs.... heck, I can't remember the last time VW/Audi made a class-leading naturally aspirated engine. So they come out with this compact little V8, then advertises how efficient it really is. Which so happens to be Honda's VTEC's keypoints--big power, from small displacement. See the marketting similarities here?
Of course having a V8--sorry, a W8 helps in marketting too. After all, VW buyers consider themselves "different" and more "classier." Well, having a W8 in a world of V6s, would indeed elevate them to that next level. The wannabe E-Class, 5-Series, GS catagorie, that is.
Speaking of the upper class buyers, I seriously doubt anybody considering the trio mentioned above would buy a W8 as a cheaper alternative. Besides performance & class disadvantages, there is also the interior room disadvantage. After all, Passat is the size of a A4--a compact sedan.
Having said that, they are definitey more upscale............ but still not considered luxery brand (whereas Audi is). I understand VW is trying upset this, but what the marketting people conceived VW to be, and what the consumers concieve VW to be, are two different things.
I don't think it's really comparing apples to oranges.
Despite the bigger engine, more horsepower and more torque, it barely pulls ahead of the Acura TL Type-S. A person who is interested in a new TL Type-S is the "value shopper" looking for a cheaper alternative to the traditional luxery brands, such as M-B, BMW & Lexus. No doubt the Passat W8 will be on their mind, as it is set for that particular market. This also includes the Infinity G35, Caddalic CTS, Lincoln LS8, Volvos, and other "lesser" popular brands. I'm sure if VW could make a naturally aspirated V6 under 4.0L that would pump out more then 250HP, they would--but they can't, hence the new W8. It's the only way they know how to keep up with the Japanese (besides using turbo).
Let's face it. The VR6 is underpowered (even the new upcoming one). The Audi's 3.0L is also underpowered. Heck, even their 4.2L for A6 is underpowered. So is their 2.0L for Golfs.... heck, I can't remember the last time VW/Audi made a class-leading naturally aspirated engine. So they come out with this compact little V8, then advertises how efficient it really is. Which so happens to be Honda's VTEC's keypoints--big power, from small displacement. See the marketting similarities here?
Of course having a V8--sorry, a W8 helps in marketting too. After all, VW buyers consider themselves "different" and more "classier." Well, having a W8 in a world of V6s, would indeed elevate them to that next level. The wannabe E-Class, 5-Series, GS catagorie, that is.
Speaking of the upper class buyers, I seriously doubt anybody considering the trio mentioned above would buy a W8 as a cheaper alternative. Besides performance & class disadvantages, there is also the interior room disadvantage. After all, Passat is the size of a A4--a compact sedan.
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Rep Power: 0 I've only got one thing to say about VW [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG]
No matter how good they are, how many hp they produce. I don't like them. Period.
No matter how good they are, how many hp they produce. I don't like them. Period.
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Rep Power: 0 Well, actually, I have owned many different VWs, Audis and a BMW...haven't owned any Acuras but have had the opportunity to drive many Integras, a Legend coupe, and even an NSX (LOVELY car). All I can say to this is that you are certainly entitled to choose what you think is best but I would suggest that you try and drive anything you can lay your hands on...you'd be surprised how many myths/misconceptions are dispelled by a thorough drive in the vehicle concerned. Also, concerning image and status; if that is more important to you than the actual quality and performance of a car, then that is also your own perception/beliefs...does not mean everyone else will share it. I for one do not really care care about others' perceptions of my vehicle--otherwise, I would not be driving a Civic.
You are right in your assesment of VW's earlier quality [or lack thereof[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]], but they have come a long way since then. The comparison of the Acura vs. the VW is not a good one, as they are very different cars, both in conception and execution: The Acura is a lighter, sportier car by design, whereas the VW is conceived as a more comfortable tourer with the ability to hold its own when pushed harder. This is a classic German approach, which in time yields a more potent variant of the touring car. Witness the Audi S8, S6, BMW M5, AMG/Mercedes C/CLK/CL classes.
As far as VW's being underpowered, teh 2.0L cars ARE. However, how many VR6 or 1.8T-powered cars have you beaten? Do you realize that it is very easy to make a 1.8T make upwards of 300hp? I don't brlieve I could ever get that from my Civic EX, even with a turbo, Supercharger, or Nitrous. Yet VWs and Audis do it all the time, while keeping all comfort and emmissions equipment.
Having a V8 or W8 or v12 or W12 WILL definitely help in marketing--that's the idea. As for VW owners being different or classier, I would say from my experience they (we?[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]) are definitely different...classier, not necessarily. It's just a different kind of car not classier or better.
As for the upper-class buyers, they are loaded!
and can afford more expensive/prestigious/bigger cars but they are also people and at least a number of them WILL consider the Passat W8. Why? Simple: It purports to provide a near-luxury level of performance and refinement at a price far lower than the more established blue chip cars.
Finally, on the issue of roominess..I take it you have not been inside a Passat? This is a surprisingly roomy car, given its size, and is definitely bigger than the A4 in all respects.
Sorry for the book...I am not trying to convert anyone, I simply want to make the point that cars are cars and share surprisingly similar technology, even when they might seem very different. What gives a car its character is the execution of that technology, which is derived from the cultural and societal approaches its makers take.
OK...I am very tired and going to bed...have to get up in a couple hours...
You are right in your assesment of VW's earlier quality [or lack thereof[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]], but they have come a long way since then. The comparison of the Acura vs. the VW is not a good one, as they are very different cars, both in conception and execution: The Acura is a lighter, sportier car by design, whereas the VW is conceived as a more comfortable tourer with the ability to hold its own when pushed harder. This is a classic German approach, which in time yields a more potent variant of the touring car. Witness the Audi S8, S6, BMW M5, AMG/Mercedes C/CLK/CL classes.
As far as VW's being underpowered, teh 2.0L cars ARE. However, how many VR6 or 1.8T-powered cars have you beaten? Do you realize that it is very easy to make a 1.8T make upwards of 300hp? I don't brlieve I could ever get that from my Civic EX, even with a turbo, Supercharger, or Nitrous. Yet VWs and Audis do it all the time, while keeping all comfort and emmissions equipment.
Having a V8 or W8 or v12 or W12 WILL definitely help in marketing--that's the idea. As for VW owners being different or classier, I would say from my experience they (we?[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]) are definitely different...classier, not necessarily. It's just a different kind of car not classier or better.
As for the upper-class buyers, they are loaded!
and can afford more expensive/prestigious/bigger cars but they are also people and at least a number of them WILL consider the Passat W8. Why? Simple: It purports to provide a near-luxury level of performance and refinement at a price far lower than the more established blue chip cars. Finally, on the issue of roominess..I take it you have not been inside a Passat? This is a surprisingly roomy car, given its size, and is definitely bigger than the A4 in all respects.
Sorry for the book...I am not trying to convert anyone, I simply want to make the point that cars are cars and share surprisingly similar technology, even when they might seem very different. What gives a car its character is the execution of that technology, which is derived from the cultural and societal approaches its makers take.
OK...I am very tired and going to bed...have to get up in a couple hours...
from what I've heard the VW will be overpriced. I looked at the Jetta's and Passats before I got my 2k1civic but thought the VW's were too girly. My girlfriend just bought the new Jetta and I get to drive it all the time, not bad but I hate the reverse on the 5 speed.
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Rep Power: 0 << but still not considered luxery brand (whereas Audi is). >>
do you realize that VW OWNS Audi? of course it's not considered a luxury brand, they're not TRYING to compete with audi. it's like saying ford is still not considered a luxury brand whereas lincoln is. same thing. and the appeal of the passat W8 is that it is a space saving W engine and not your typical V8, on top of all the luxury they've thrown into that car. they're trying to appeal more to the lower middle class car buyer, where audi/BMW/mercedes are strictly upper middle class obviously. and VWs are great cars, as are audis. i've also been around VWs and audis all my life, and there's never been huge problems with them.
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Rep Power: 0 << Well, actually, I have owned many different VWs, Audis and a BMW...haven't owned any Acuras but have had the opportunity to drive many Integras, a Legend coupe, and even an NSX (LOVELY car). All I can say to this is that you are certainly entitled to choose what you think is best but I would suggest that you try and drive anything you can lay your hands on...you'd be surprised how many myths/misconceptions are dispelled by a thorough drive in the vehicle concerned. Also, concerning image and status; if that is more important to you than the actual quality and performance of a car, then that is also your own perception/beliefs...does not mean everyone else will share it. I for one do not really care care about others' perceptions of my vehicle--otherwise, I would not be driving a Civic.
You are right in your assesment of VW's earlier quality [or lack thereof[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]], but they have come a long way since then. The comparison of the Acura vs. the VW is not a good one, as they are very different cars, both in conception and execution: The Acura is a lighter, sportier car by design, whereas the VW is conceived as a more comfortable tourer with the ability to hold its own when pushed harder. This is a classic German approach, which in time yields a more potent variant of the touring car. Witness the Audi S8, S6, BMW M5, AMG/Mercedes C/CLK/CL classes.
As far as VW's being underpowered, teh 2.0L cars ARE. However, how many VR6 or 1.8T-powered cars have you beaten? Do you realize that it is very easy to make a 1.8T make upwards of 300hp? I don't brlieve I could ever get that from my Civic EX, even with a turbo, Supercharger, or Nitrous. Yet VWs and Audis do it all the time, while keeping all comfort and emmissions equipment.
Having a V8 or W8 or v12 or W12 WILL definitely help in marketing--that's the idea. As for VW owners being different or classier, I would say from my experience they (we?[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]) are definitely different...classier, not necessarily. It's just a different kind of car not classier or better.
As for the upper-class buyers, they are loaded!
and can afford more expensive/prestigious/bigger cars but they are also people and at least a number of them WILL consider the Passat W8. Why? Simple: It purports to provide a near-luxury level of performance and refinement at a price far lower than the more established blue chip cars. Finally, on the issue of roominess..I take it you have not been inside a Passat? This is a surprisingly roomy car, given its size, and is definitely bigger than the A4 in all respects.
Sorry for the book...I am not trying to convert anyone, I simply want to make the point that cars are cars and share surprisingly similar technology, even when they might seem very different. What gives a car its character is the execution of that technology, which is derived from the cultural and societal approaches its makers take.
OK...I am very tired and going to bed...have to get up in a couple hours... >>
My responds to your "book"
1. Quality is different from reliability. Quality is measured in quality of materials, and initial impression. Like dash materials (Jetta/Golf *IS* better than Civics, or any other cars in its class) and the way the door shut, etc (who can argue against German brands here?).
2. I never mention 1.8T, because I was referring to Naturally Aspirated engines. In fact, I suggested they use forced induction, instead of going naturally aspirated, because VW/Audi doesn't have a single efficient naturally aspirated engine in its line up, that is class leading in terms of horsepower
isplacement ratio.3. Passat is not roomier than the A4! You are not comparing the NEW passat with the NEW A4. Same chassis, and yes, interior room is the same. Even sat in the back. Passat is not stretched out like TL is to Accords.
4. As for loaded people surging--how do you think they are rich? A lot of rich people are CHEAP as hell. That's how some of them became rich. It's all in how they were brought up.... if you are cheap, you're not going to spruge on a brand new Lexus GS430. You will most likely search for a cheaper alternative--such as TL Type-S, or a Passat W8.
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<< but still not considered luxery brand (whereas Audi is). >>
do you realize that VW OWNS Audi? of course it's not considered a luxury brand, they're not TRYING to compete with audi. it's like saying ford is still not considered a luxury brand whereas lincoln is. same thing. and the appeal of the passat W8 is that it is a space saving W engine and not your typical V8, on top of all the luxury they've thrown into that car. they're trying to appeal more to the lower middle class car buyer, where audi/BMW/mercedes are strictly upper middle class obviously. and VWs are great cars, as are audis. i've also been around VWs and audis all my life, and there's never been huge problems with them. >>
Ummmmmmm.. yes I know VW owns Audi.
And yes, they **ARE** trying to compete with each other. If you read up on their marketting direction, they are tyring to elevated VW into Mercedes-Benz/BMW class, while using Audi as their sport class.
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Rep Power: 0 Well, all I can say is this:
German cars, by and large, have always followed an evolutionary approach to model updates, rather than revolutionary, as in Honda's case. Honda has indeed come up with some of the best engineering breakthroughs in engines and chassis alike--got VTEC?[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].
VW is just now getting around to bringing a 24-valve version of their VR6 over to the US...and who can argue against specific output in Honda's engines? They make some of the fastest-revving, highest specific output per liter engines around...and you know what? I say hooray for Honda! If it wasn't for their innovations and achievements pushing and influencing the entire industry, we would not have all the other great cars that we have, regardless of manufacturer.
I for one would love to be able to afford the upcoming W8 Passat 4Motion with the Sport suspension, 6-spd and 17" wheels...alas, it will be a while before I can even consider one of those cars[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG].
German cars, by and large, have always followed an evolutionary approach to model updates, rather than revolutionary, as in Honda's case. Honda has indeed come up with some of the best engineering breakthroughs in engines and chassis alike--got VTEC?[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].
VW is just now getting around to bringing a 24-valve version of their VR6 over to the US...and who can argue against specific output in Honda's engines? They make some of the fastest-revving, highest specific output per liter engines around...and you know what? I say hooray for Honda! If it wasn't for their innovations and achievements pushing and influencing the entire industry, we would not have all the other great cars that we have, regardless of manufacturer.
I for one would love to be able to afford the upcoming W8 Passat 4Motion with the Sport suspension, 6-spd and 17" wheels...alas, it will be a while before I can even consider one of those cars[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG].
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Rep Power: 0 << General Ramblings
General auto chat. For off topic stuff, use the "Off Topic" category. >>
Mbow--Isn't this "general auto chat"?[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
And yeah, I would not expect German cars to be at all popular in Redneck Central[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]
