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I was coming down a two-lane street with a single yellow line and got Lasered by a motorcycle cop. 50 in a 35. Luckily for me he wrote me up for California section 22350 (basic speed law) instead of a 'maximum speed' violation.

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

Now, in my estimation I was traveling at a safe speed considering the conditions: No trafic, no pedestrians, no rain, good street surface, perfect visibility.

I'm planning on using a defense along these lines, but the questions like "Was there anything inherently unsafe about the weather at the speed I was going?" worry me. He's going to say, "yes".

Maybe some of the LEO's on this board could give me some pointers on how to phrase questions to get the answer I want?

I can't afford any more points on my record. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG]

 
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50 in a 35 definately does constitute more than a basic speed vio. The officer did you a favor for not writing you on the specific speed. As far as the defenses, the court ALWAYS believes the officer UNLESS he or she specificially says in court "I do not remember writing the motorist the ticket." And that is usually never said unless the officer "accidently" wrote the ticket to an another officers friend/family member etc. I take notes on the weather, description of the car, distinctive mods, appearance of driver so that I am prepared for even the most bizzare questions in court. I am not even a motorcycle cop, so I assume the officer who wrote you the ticket took similar notes.

I am not necessarily saying plead guilty...you might want to contact the prosecutor to see if you can take a driving course to reduce points/fine/etc.

 
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Dude, your screwed, get Johnny Cockrin and pray.

 
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50 in a 35. Quit your b!tch!ng, you deserve the ticket.

 
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50 in a 35, thats not that bad. I would just say live and learn. I already have 2 tickets and really don't need anymore so I have slowed it down a bit. I still find myself traveling over the limit though. I don't race or drive like a maniac, I really think that speed limits should be uped, I know for a fact I am much more aware and assertive at higher speeds.

 
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well...I got a speeding ticket 3 weeks ago, and I recived the bail informaiton just today, total $87. I was just tried to pass a car on a street, before 2 lane became 1 lane street and I get caught by motor cop whom hidden by the tree. That's sON of BitCh.....right now I have to go to traffic school.......hopefully my insurance wont go up....


Speeding ticket $87, $29 traffic school info., $25 traffic school fee.
=$141.......(doing 65 in a 50).

WD40, are u from California Corona, i live in Calif. Fontana.

 
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50 in a 35..... if you can't afford any more points, this means you have some right? so why are you speeding when you know if you get caught you're f'ed?

 
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Yeah, I'm from Corona, CA.

I'm pretty sure the cop didn't take notes unless he did it at a later time. I watched him and as soon as he was done he hurried off to his little driveway to catch the next guy. He must have been behind on his quot... erm... "daily citation goals" that day.

I don't understand how him writing me on a prima facie violation is doing me a favor. He still put down "50 in a 35 zone" even though Section 22350 says nothing about posted speed limits.

The only favor I can see is that there is some chance (no matter how small) of beating it. Had he written me for a maximum speed vio it'd be an open and shut case.

Hopefully it's been 18 months since I last went to traffic school. If so I'll just go again (thank God for Traffic School Online) and forget about it.

 
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First, police officers do not have quotas. They are illegal. I am being honest with you when I tell you I do not have a quota. I work for a major suburban New York City police force. Second, the officer did you a favor in that a higher number of points and a larger fine could be assessed when a motorist is charged with operating their vehicle in a specific speed over the posted speed limit. As for your contention regarding the basic speed law, the summons is valid as a basic speed violation is VERY broad and can be used at the officer's discretion. I can write a basic speed summons and say I observed the person going too fast, regardless of whether or not there was a posted speed limit. The officer can also introduce to the court that he used a RADAR device which calculated that you were speeding. I wouldn't recommend you open a can of worms about this, judges do not appreciate when you try and explain the law to them, and as I said, 99.999% of the time, the officer's word is believed by the court over the defendants. I would do the traffic school and see if you can work something out with the prosecutor...

 
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Yeah, if I'm eligible for traffic school I'll definitely just go that route.

Are prosecutors generally pretty willing to negotiate something like that? If I could get reduced points that's all I care about. I don't really care about the fine.

Yeah, I know 'quotas' are illegal... but that doesn't stop the officer's supervisor from telling him to get his numbers up or giving him a 'citation goal'.

The officer didn't even ask for my registration and proof of insurance. He didn't even run my license for warrants (not that I have any). He just needed to write some tickets that day I guess.

I was driving my friend's pickup and he marked the vehicle owner 'same as above'. I don't suppose that's a dismissable technicality is it?

 
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Prosecutors are *generally* willing to work something out if you have a good attitude and not such a flagrant driving record that makes you look like a danger to others on the road. I'm told constantly to "get my numbers up"...do I listen? Not necessarily. I don't run everyone I stop, and motorcycle cops definately do not run everyone they stop. A motorcycle cop is usually part of a specialized traffic enforcement unit, and has a nose for things which do not look right. If a person is nervous, etc., that cop will run that driver. There is no need to run everyone, a small fraction of drivers have warrants and invalid licenses. Checking owner as operator on the summons is not dismissable. That is the same as indicating the wrong color, etc. The court can simply have the officer sign an affidavit to amend the summons if you dispute that. The only error that can *possibly* be disputed is an incorrect date/time but most judges will allow amending for that as well. I would have asked for registration and insurance, but some officers do not.

 
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Attn WD40:
I would be real careful about trying to contest your ticket in court. You basically have no defense. In criminal cases a prosecuter will generally try to plea down "less important" cases in order to save the courts time and money. For instance, if you get arrested for drunk driving and its a borderline case, they will agree to reckless driving instead of DUI if you agree to plead guilty. That saves the court time and money because they don't have to go through a jury trial However, traffic court is very different. There is no pre-trial, no jury etc... Its usually you, the cop that wrote you the ticket and a judge that decides whether or not your guilty. There is no advantage for the court to plea your case down to less or no points. It will not save them time or resources, so their is no reason for them to "bargain" with you.

If this was your only ticket you MIGHT have a slim chance of getting out of it, depending on several factors. However, since you stated that you are on the verge of having you liscense suspended, why would they believe that you weren't guilty this time? They will have a copy of you driving history when you go to court. If you go in there asking questions like "What was unsafe about my driving" or "How far away was I when you first picked me up on radar" or basically any of the questions that you found on that website. You are just going to **** of the judge for wasting his time and you can be in a worst situation then where you were to begin with. It would be diferent if you were a lawyer or actually had some training and radar systems and how they work. But you don't and both the cop and the judge know that. A judge is going to believe the cop, who went through radar training over you, who has not.

The cop actually served two purposed by writing you a ticket under California section 22350. Where you got the idea that he wrote you on a prima fecia violation is beyone me. You said he wrote you a ticket based on section 22350 which is a basic speed violation not a prima facie violation. Prima facie basically translates into "on the face of it". Basically its absurd to think that the state is going to put a speed limit sign on every single piece of drivable road. That's why they have set prima facie limits such as 15mph in alleys, blind intersections and blind railroad crossings and 25mph in residential and business areas. So if you driving down some back alley, just because you don't see a speed limit sign doesn't mean that you can do 50mph. That would be a prima facie violation, you generally have to know the prima facie laws when you take your drivers liscense test. So by righting you a ticket under sectoin 22350 he save you some points and some money on the ticket, and he saved the posibility of the ticket being thrown on a "technicality" such as the speed limit sign got thrown out or you somehow manage to prove his radar gun was miscalibrated. Remeber cops CAN write you a ticket under section 22350 by using vision and without the use of a radar gun.

And finally, as far as the copy not taking notes. Most cops, especially ones assigned to traffic unit, usually take very detailed notes. What do you think they do when they are sitting there waiting on their next speeder? And cops, like everyone else, are human and are generally allowed room for "human error" such as writing down the wrong color. And like QCKSILVER said quotas are illegal in all 50 states. Sometimes departments will try to concentrate on a specific area because of excessive speeding or multiple complaints. And some bigger departments have cops specificly assigned to traffic duty. They generally don't answer other calls unless needed, their main goal is for traffic enforcement. Anyway, sorry for such a long post and good luck on your ticket. I would just be real careful about going in there and asking the cop and/or judge a lot of queestion like you know what your talking about. Even if he does answer you question about how far away you were in he clocked you, do you know what is an acceptable range and what is not??

-Kevin

 
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Thanks for taking the time to respond guys. I appreciate it.

Kevin: Yeah, I'm going to get a copy of the city's speed survey on that street and make sure it's up to date. I'll also ask for a gun calibration cert.

I know he used LIDAR and that it has an effective range of up to ~1 mile, so yeah that's probably a pointless question.

Thanks again.

 
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WD40: There is no reason to ask for a survey or for a for calibration certification. He didn't issue you a ticket based on his Radar/Laser gun. He issued you a ticket for a "generic" unlawful speed violation. If he would have written you for a maximum speed violation then an outdated calibration might do you some good. But cops can write you a ticket just by observation and without the use of a radar/laser gun. And as far as obtaining a copy of the city's speed survey, that really won't do you any good either. That would help you only when you received a ticket for going under the maximum posted lawful speed (speed limit sign). The state assumes that you have the judgement to adjust you speed as conditions change provided you never exceed the maximum posted limit regardless of how safe you think it is. Such as bad weather, contruction, etc.. However, you violated the maximum posted speed and a speed survey will do you no good (the speed survey may say safe conditions were only 35mph). If the cop wrote you a ticket for doing 50 in a maximum 55 because conditions were not appropriate to do 50mph, then a speed survey might benefit you. I know California court systems are quite different than FL, but your best bet, (If you really want to fight it) is go in there properly dressed in nice paints, a button up shirt with a tie, and simply "beg" for mercy. Tell the judge that you have learned your lesson and that he will not see you in his courtroom again. You are wiling to pay the fines, go to traffic court etc.. and that you really can't afford the points on your liscense. Just remember you attitude and appearance make a HUGE difference. Don't go in there with baggy jeans on and start asking them a bunch of senseless questions like you have the upper hand.
-Kevin

 
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I'm going to agree with Kevin on this---follow everything he says and you might have a favorable outcome. Asking for RADAR certifications will make it look like you have an attitude, and in any event, all cops even if they don't use RADAR, have a credit card type card saying they are expert certified in speed measurement devices.

Follow Kevin's advice and hopefully you will have some luck...

 
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I love these posts.....he is mad cause he got the R and P ticket as opposed to speeding..... anyway I didnt read the novel that kevin wrote but I'm sure I would agree with him.... sometimes if I dont have time to find the exact statute number or the exact name of the offense I will just use R and P and let them off on that so just pay it or go to traffic school and SLOW DOWN

 
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to bad!!!!

 
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If I went with the "beg for mercy" route would I do that at my arraignment or would I have to plead first?

If I need to enter a plea, would it be 'no contest' or 'not guilty'? If I plead 'no contest' will I get a chance to beg from the judge or will he just slam his gavel and tell me to not leave court without writing a check?

 
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A "no contest," or "nolo-contendre (sp?)" means you simply do not contest the charges, or object to them. You are technicially guilty of them by default then. I'm not sure how your state issues summonses, but if there is information on the front with regard to a return date, court, etc., you might want to try and find the prosecutor before that date, or alternatively, the prosecutor will definately be there on that date.

 
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Kevin suggested I ask the judge for mercy. Is pleading not guilty the only way I can talk to the judge, or would I be able to "beg for mercy" if I enter a no contest plea?

 
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If you want to go that route, you're going to have to do a "not guilty" plea, which will definately bring you face to face with a traffic prosecutor -before- seeing a judge. Prosecutors have the authority to make special arrangements with you and the judges follow their requests for such arrangements...