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If this doesn't make you feel better about our Civics, at least it ought to make you feel glad you don't have a Focus.

Focus

Vor

 
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hahaha one of my friends had a focus that underwent "spontaneous combustion"[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG] I told him not to buy it.[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
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<< NHTSA is looking at 2000 and 2001 Focus compact cars for air bags that deploy at low-speed crashes and bags that cause fires after inflating. >>


Yup, that's just what a person needs after a head-on collision... a fire caused by the airbag.

Maybe it's Ford's special way of telling passengers to "get the f*ck out " after an accident [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
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Well its not we dont all try and tell them, that Ford sucks, but they dont listen.
Buy a Honda!

Crashoveride

 
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How many recalls does this make for the focus now? I heard on the radio, this am, I think they said like 18 recalls now....how do they keep selling so many of those? My only experience in a focus was a brief one, a loaner car at the time, I was NOT impressed at all, it felt super cheap and all plastic inside, and it rode very stiff and nasty.....so glad the Civic is soooo much better

 
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It's not really a surprise coming from Ford and all. You gotta worr about the people driving them though.

 
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Ddddddddddiidididddidid somebody say f-f-f-f-f-ff-f-f-f-Ford f-f-f-ff-f-f-f-f-Focus. . . . .no, no, No, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! My GOD, Mommy, NOT A FOCUS!!!![IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]Please, Mommy, I want TO LIVE!!! By me a HONDA!!! At least a YUGO!!!! Anything but a FOCUS!!!![IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
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You guys are funny, you should take your act on the road or something.

This "investigation" is just stupid, it's a witch hunt plain and simple. Of the 4 problems they mentioned 2 of them (the wheel & the wiper motor) have been addressed via Recall already, the third one (the airbags going off permaturely) has only happened to 1 person on any of the Focus boards I am on. The engine compartment fires is complete news to me, I have not heard of this happening to anyone.

It is kind of frustrating how perceptions of quality affect how you think about something. Minor issues that are completely ignored on a Civic or Corolla would be slammed from here to next week on a Focus or Cavalier. My Focus, which is a 2000 (supposedly the worst one since it's a first year) has been many times more trouble free than the Corolla I owned. The 3 recalls I have had have been AT WORST a minor inconvienience to me, in fact it instills me with confidence that Ford will spend the money to recall a car for a problem most manufacturers would ignore or even try to hide.

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Rainforest Green 2000 Ford Focus ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car"
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Focaljet | Club-Focus | FCI | Club Si
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My Home Page
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Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

 
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i have a friend who had to replace his rotors and pads after 4,000 miles

 
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Dude my friend's focus spontaneously caught fire when it was parked. The fire started under the hood and it was parked for 2 hours before it happened. Sorry, but I wouldn't consider that a minor issue. I personally can't believe that's happened to other people too. My old car (85 300ZX) was recalled for a problem that could cause it to catch fire, but as of this point it sounds to me like FORD doesn't know what they are doing wrong OR they choose to do nothing about it. I personally am a former owner of 2 fords, and both of them cost me more to repair within a few months than it cost me to actually buy them. I will never buy another ford again.

 
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Ratchinson- you think it's just a witch hunt on Ford? So your saying that Americans are calling out American car makers for no reason? I doubt it. Ford sucks, everyone knows it, just accept it. Ford made good cars, up until about 1978. Maybe your car is a fluke because it has had no problems. (yet)

 
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[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/IMG] I would understand a heavily modified, forced-induction motor possibly catching fire, but a stock engine? That's not cool..

 
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I'm with Darkcivic. It's hard to believe that an organization like the NHTSA would go out of its way just for a "witch-hunt". When it comes down to passenger safety, the NHTSA has to take its job seriously. And it seems like these safety issues with the Focus do warrant their attention.

Raitch: you got a problem-free car, and that's good for you. But there may be other Focus owners out there who have these problems they're talking about.

 
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<< Ratchinson- you think it's just a witch hunt on Ford? So your saying that Americans are calling out American car makers for no reason? I doubt it. Ford sucks, everyone knows it, just accept it. Ford made good cars, up until about 1978. Maybe your car is a fluke because it has had no problems. (yet) >>



Are all these cars flukes?




The overwhelming majority of Focus's out there are problem free. To be sure the FOcus had had more than it's fair share of lemons and there is no dubt that Ford screwed up big time ramping up North American production of the Focus.

I think there are a variety of factors contrbuting to the situation.

1. Ford screwed up in a HUGE way when they rolled out the 2000 Focus in North America, this resulted in several recalls.
2. Due to the Exploder/Firestone situation, Ford has been VERY recall happy, recalling a car for the most minor issues where most manufacturers would not.
3. The more Ford issues recalls the more there is a "perception" of poor quality among the media and consumers. In realty recalls are not always caused by quality defects.
4. The recalls tend to annoy many of the owners, this contributes to overall dissatisfaction with the car and makes you much more willing to accept that the car has "quality" issues.
5. The media, looking to gain viewers/listeners/subscribers, feeds this by reporting and making a big deal out of every tiny recall and problem, this reinforces the perceptions that people have.
6. Dis-satisfied owners are much more willing (even eager) to report any possible problems where they would not report the problems if they were satisfied with the car.
7. The consumer complaints, coupled with the media hype triggers the government to "investigate" the safety and quality issues. This feeds the whole cycle all over again.

Face it, nobody cares (and most don't even know) that there have been 5 safety recalls on the 2001 Civic, but a recall on a Ford product makes the news.

Don't get me wrong, the Focus is far from perfect, for all that the North American models of the car are &gt;99% unchanged from the european models the changes they did make "cheapen" the overall feel of the car, the absence of fold-away side mirrors, bumpers that don't look as good as the Euro bumbers and a ride that is too soft detract from the whole experience.

Ford has good reasons to make all these changes, in Europe the Focus is a mid-level car where here is is entry level, plus American's tend to like squishier suspensions that isolate them from the road. Still for the enthusiast it is disappointing.

Also, when ford was sourcing components (such as wheel bearings, seat hinges, wiper motors, etc.) for the US production it didn't do enough testing and ended up specifying sub-standard components. This is the primary reason why so many 2000 Focus (mostly on the early 2000 models) recalls were issued.

I still maintain that the Focus is a good car with an outstanding design, it's practical, fun to drive, has a strong aftermarket and yes, reliable, it is, without a doubt the best automotive value out there today. Will my Focus be running at 100k+ miles and 10 years later, maybe not, I don't really care cause I am not planning on keeping any car that long.

 
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and favortie car maker. However, after the Ford/Explorer/Firestone fiasco, I would never ever trust Ford. I mean they let people get hurt and die. They knew of the problems, but their reputation and profits came first, and now they are paying for it. This is a Honda site though, so why argue the point, you know you are gonna get flamed.[IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG]

 
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I can totally understand him trying to back up his car.......I mean.....Its his car.......

I was brought up (all 21 years) to dislike fords.......My dad was a chevy man........
onwned many fords...(my mom)....and they all had trouble.......
I have had expeirence w/ VW's......(3).not that many but........VW sucks......
I have only had my 1st honda(my2k1).....for 10,000 mi........Absolutley NO problems........Ive never even heard of any recalls for the car(maybee a lose seat.....but im not HUGE)....so I guess that doesnt apply....[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG].......
Engines catching on fire.......thats a diff. story
JMO....
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

OH.....and 30 some focus' and crap to the amount sold.......(thousands and thousands)

 
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<< The overwhelming majority of Focus's out there are problem free. To be sure the FOcus had had more than it's fair share of lemons and there is no dubt that Ford screwed up big time ramping up North American production of the Focus.

I think there are a variety of factors contrbuting to the situation.

1. Ford screwed up in a HUGE way when they rolled out the 2000 Focus in North America, this resulted in several recalls.
2. Due to the Exploder/Firestone situation, Ford has been VERY recall happy, recalling a car for the most minor issues where most manufacturers would not. >>



Out of the goodness of their heart? Please. No one's that naive.



<< 3. The more Ford issues recalls the more there is a "perception" of poor quality among the media and consumers. In realty recalls are not always caused by quality defects. >>



Sometimes it's safety defects, like burning airbags.



<< 4. The recalls tend to annoy many of the owners, this contributes to overall dissatisfaction with the car and makes you much more willing to accept that the car has "quality" issues. >>



Can't argue with that. Recalls do tend to make one think a car has quality issues, the same way running one's head through a plate glass window tends to make one think their head has pain issues.



<< 5. The media, looking to gain viewers/listeners/subscribers, feeds this by reporting and making a big deal out of every tiny recall and problem, this reinforces the perceptions that people have. >>



As opposed to not telling us, so we can continue to drive unsafe vehicles? If something goes wrong with Civics, I want the media or someone to tell me about it before I have to find out the hard way! And I would expect Honda to act appropriately. If they don't they deserve to have their nut$ hanging from my rear-view mirror.



<< 6. Dis-satisfied owners are much more willing (even eager) to report any possible problems where they would not report the problems if they were satisfied with the car. >>



Absurd. One big reason Honda has earned the reputation for quality that it has is because of owners relating their satisfactory experiences, and it is one of the reasons I bought mine. I had no less than six people recommend a Civic to me. Positive word of mouth.



<< 7. The consumer complaints, coupled with the media hype triggers the government to "investigate" the safety and quality issues. This feeds the whole cycle all over again. >>



Where there's smoke, there's fire, no pun intended. Do you really believe the big, bad government is purposefully picking on Ford? See your first line item above...Ford's mistake caused the recalls in the first place! It's not like the owners are overcome with masochistic abandon and are doing this to the cars themselves.



<< Face it, nobody cares (and most don't even know) that there have been 5 safety recalls on the 2001 Civic, but a recall on a Ford product makes the news. >>



Please cite your sources on these 5 safety recalls. Other than the Civic's floor mat not being properly anchored and possibly slipping under the pedals on the floor, I know of no other recall on the Civic. This, I might add, was a voluntary recall on Honda's part, not ordered by the government. And my car didn't have floormats in the first place, so it is exempt. But please, feel free to enlighten us.



<< Don't get me wrong, the Focus is far from perfect, for all that the North American models of the car are >>

&lt;&lt;SNIP&gt;&gt;



<< Also, when ford was sourcing components (such as wheel bearings, seat hinges, wiper motors, etc.) for the US production it didn't do enough testing and ended up specifying sub-standard components. This is the primary reason why so many 2000 Focus (mostly on the early 2000 models) recalls were issued. >>



Admitting that you have a problem is the first step....



<< I still maintain that the Focus is a good car with an outstanding design, it's practical, fun to drive, has a strong aftermarket and yes, reliable, it is, without a doubt the best automotive value out there today. Will my Focus be running at 100k+ miles and 10 years later, maybe not, I don't really care cause I am not planning on keeping any car that long. >>



But many of us are planning on keeping our cars a long time. In fact, the only car I would trade mine for is a concept car that hasn't been built yet. You never come out ahead on buying a car in the first place, because it depreciates. If you finance, so much the worse. The only way to come out "ahead" on a car purchase is to buy one, pay it off as soon as you can, and then use it for as long as it will last once it is paid off so that the investment somewhat begins to pay for itself. Economics 101. If you buy a car that has all of the quality indictments that you list above going against it, there's little chance of ever getting the "free" end use out of it.

I have no axes to grind with Ford or any other domestic brand. I have always primarily owned Dodge and Plymouth vehicles, and mainly bought my Honda because of the price, fuel mileage and reliability reputation. But I do take issue with large companies putting out poor quality products and expecting me to buy them because it's my #%*@$& patriotic duty to do so, or because it has "gee whiz" styling, or whatever other lame bit of psychological manipulation they can cook up. I would feel sorry for Ford if they hadn't brought this upon themselves. Just remember that quality issues were among the reasons that foreign cars gained a foothold in the U.S. market to begin with. There's too much competition now to get sloppy and rest on one's laurels, or on a family name.

Vor

 
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Vor, that was quite an impressive response for a n00b! With more Jr. Members like you, this site will be better than ever!

On another note, I'd hate to say it, but i think the 5 safety recalls isn't an exageration. although i'm not taking any sides here.

EDIT: Yea, I checked the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration site, and guess what. 5 safety recalls. BUT... 2 of them seemed to be the same one...

 
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Bwahahaha [IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG]foci[IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG]

 
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<< Vor, that was quite an impressive response for a n00b! With more Jr. Members like you, this site will be better than ever! >>


I second that. Nice job Vortex.

 
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Ok, I stand corrected on the recalls. I have a 2002, and mine only has the one recall concerning the air cleaner box cover. I usually search on 2002, guess I should include the 2001 model too. We're talking 295 vehicles here on that recall, but one recall is one too many. Has anyone with a 2001 received notification on their recalls, because I haven't gotten a thing on the 2002 one. Thanks for the thumbs up Ronin and NighthawkVTEC, btw. Didn't mean to write an essay, just got in a writing mode I guess.

Vor

 
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<< The overwhelming majority of Focus's out there are problem free. To be sure the FOcus had had more than it's fair share of lemons and there is no dubt that Ford screwed up big time ramping up North American production of the Focus.

I think there are a variety of factors contrbuting to the situation.

1. Ford screwed up in a HUGE way when they rolled out the 2000 Focus in North America, this resulted in several recalls.
2. Due to the Exploder/Firestone situation, Ford has been VERY recall happy, recalling a car for the most minor issues where most manufacturers would not. >>



Out of the goodness of their heart? Please. No one's that naive.

No out of the fear of lawsuits. It is and has been common practice in the auto industry when a problem is found to evaluate the costs of fixing it to the liability risks of not fixing it. If a company figures it will have to pay out $2m in settlements if they don't fix "problem x" but it will cost $5m to recall and fix the problem what do you thing they will do? After the Firestone/Exploder fiasco when ford was staring down billions in settlements it swung completely the other way erroring on the side of safety (and less liability). Ford is still looking out for their own best interests they are just not willing to take as many risks right now.



<< 3. The more Ford issues recalls the more there is a "perception" of poor quality among the media and consumers. In realty recalls are not always caused by quality defects. >>



Sometimes it's safety defects, like burning airbags.

The airbags have not been recalled, this is a relatively new issue (yesterday was the first I'd heard of it), but I'm willing to bet that the airbag design in the Focus isn't substantially different than most other airbag designs.



<< 4. The recalls tend to annoy many of the owners, this contributes to overall dissatisfaction with the car and makes you much more willing to accept that the car has "quality" issues. >>



Can't argue with that. Recalls do tend to make one think a car has quality issues, the same way running one's head through a plate glass window tends to make one think their head has pain issues.

No it's more like if someone put a railing in front of a steep dropoff, you hit the railing and blame the railing for the problem, when in fact the railing may have saved your life.



<< 5. The media, looking to gain viewers/listeners/subscribers, feeds this by reporting and making a big deal out of every tiny recall and problem, this reinforces the perceptions that people have. >>



As opposed to not telling us, so we can continue to drive unsafe vehicles? If something goes wrong with Civics, I want the media or someone to tell me about it before I have to find out the hard way! And I would expect Honda to act appropriately. If they don't they deserve to have their nut$ hanging from my rear-view mirror.

Recalls are issued on cars every week, it's not a big deal, they rarely show up on anyones radar, maybe if they are particularly serious they might be mentioned on an automotive industry news report. If there is a recall on a Ford product, it's news at 11: Ford products unsafe



<< 6. Dis-satisfied owners are much more willing (even eager) to report any possible problems where they would not report the problems if they were satisfied with the car. >>



Absurd. One big reason Honda has earned the reputation for quality that it has is because of owners relating their satisfactory experiences, and it is one of the reasons I bought mine. I had no less than six people recommend a Civic to me. Positive word of mouth.

I have also seen people ignore tiny problems on their Honda, Toyota or whatever. It's all about perception. If you think a or hear car is a POS you will look for all kinds of reasons to back that belief up. Conversely if you believe you car is gods gift to quality, your going to overlook issues that might tarnish that perception. Ask any 1st year psychology student.



<< 7. The consumer complaints, coupled with the media hype triggers the government to "investigate" the safety and quality issues. This feeds the whole cycle all over again. >>



Where there's smoke, there's fire, no pun intended. Do you really believe the big, bad government is purposefully picking on Ford? See your first line item above...Ford's mistake caused the recalls in the first place! It's not like the owners are overcome with masochistic abandon and are doing this to the cars themselves.

The govenment is beholden to (after special interests) the people, if the people want an investigation into the safety of a vehicle the government is obliged to at least consider it. It matters little how right or wrong the perceptions that the people have are.



<< Face it, nobody cares (and most don't even know) that there have been 5 safety recalls on the 2001 Civic, but a recall on a Ford product makes the news. >>



Please cite your sources on these 5 safety recalls. Other than the Civic's floor mat not being properly anchored and possibly slipping under the pedals on the floor, I know of no other recall on the Civic. This, I might add, was a voluntary recall on Honda's part, not ordered by the government. And my car didn't have floormats in the first place, so it is exempt. But please, feel free to enlighten us.

How about the NHTSA? I did a quick search yesterday and came up with 5:


<<
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 01V182000
Component: FUEL:FUEL TANK ASSEMBLY[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]IPE:FILLER:NECK
Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 01V183000
Component: FUEL:FUEL PUMP
Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 01V329000
Component: ENGINE[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/IMG]THER PARTS
Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 01V380000
Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:ACTIVE RESTRAINTS:BELT BUCKLES
Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 02V051000
Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:ACTIVE RESTRAINTS:BELT BUCKLES
Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
>>



Feel free to search yourself and let me know what you find. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/Rec1.cfm?SearchTopic=Vehicle

Oh and for the record of all the recalls that have been issued for the focus, only one was not voluntary.



<< I still maintain that the Focus is a good car with an outstanding design, it's practical, fun to drive, has a strong aftermarket and yes, reliable, it is, without a doubt the best automotive value out there today. Will my Focus be running at 100k+ miles and 10 years later, maybe not, I don't really care cause I am not planning on keeping any car that long. >>



But many of us are planning on keeping our cars a long time. In fact, the only car I would trade mine for is a concept car that hasn't been built yet. You never come out ahead on buying a car in the first place, because it depreciates. If you finance, so much the worse. The only way to come out "ahead" on a car purchase is to buy one, pay it off as soon as you can, and then use it for as long as it will last once it is paid off so that the investment somewhat begins to pay for itself. Economics 101. If you buy a car that has all of the quality indictments that you list above going against it, there's little chance of ever getting the "free" end use out of it.

If I was buying a car and planning on keeping it for 10 or more years, I would most certianly pay thousands more to get a Honda, I'd be willing to bet that more than 80% of the people who now own 7th gen Civics have no intntion of keeping their car more than 5 years. If your in that category very long term reliability isn't nearly as big of an issue.

have no axes to grind with Ford or any other domestic brand. I have always primarily owned Dodge and Plymouth vehicles, and mainly bought my Honda because of the price, fuel mileage and reliability reputation. But I do take issue with large companies putting out poor quality products and expecting me to buy them because it's my #%*@$& patriotic duty to do so, or because it has "gee whiz" styling, or whatever other lame bit of psychological manipulation they can cook up. I would feel sorry for Ford if they hadn't brought this upon themselves. Just remember that quality issues were among the reasons that foreign cars gained a foothold in the U.S. market to begin with. There's too much competition now to get sloppy and rest on one's laurels, or on a family name.

I'm not a Ford fan, everyone I know was very surprised that I bought the Focus. I had a bad experience with a Ford Escort and more or less swore off Ford forever. When I was looking for a new car I was considering the Civic and the New Beetle. I would have loved an Si or EX but I don't fit in any Civic with a sunroof (i'm 6'6") so the BEST is could do with a Civic was a loaded HX (which wasn't particularly loaded). Still I had more or less made up my mind to buy the HX.

Then I got a rental Focus for a week on a business trip, it was an amazing car, the handling was incredible, the fit and finish and design/feel of the interior blew away the Civic's in every respect (it made the interior plastic pieces of the Civic look like they were contracted out to Fisher Price). Plus I could get a fully loaded hatchback (iv'e always preferred hatches for their styling and versatility) where the best Honda hatchback I could get was a DX. All in all the fully loaded ZX3 hatchback was thousands less than the semi loaded HX coupe, was cheaper to insure and seemed better in every way (except gas mileage of course). To my own surprise it was a no-brainer.

I was planning on waiting till the 2001 model to get a Focus so I could avoid the whole "first year" issue, an accident which totaled my car forced me into a 2000. I was aprehensive but have been very pleasantly surprised. The Focus is still as solid today as it was when I drove it off the lot. It is showing abolutely no signs of problems as it approaches it's 2nd birthday. All I can say is that those hard working Mexican workers took a solid european design and built me a great car.

 
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heres some info on the explorer and deaths: (pinto is just history of that company)

Report: Ford Explorer has higher rate of accidents with non firestone tires
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/bridgestone.explorer.reut/
http://detroitnews.com/2000/autos/0010/09/autos-132247.htm
The Ford Explorer has a higher rate of tire-related accidents than other sport utility vehicles, even when fitted with Goodyear tires and not the Firestone tires that have been linked to 101 deaths nationwide. The accident rate was double the next highest suv with Goodyear tires and four times with firestone tires.
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Did Ford Cut Corners When the Explorer Couldn't? TIME Magazine
http://www.fordexplorerrollovers.com/ford.htm
Months before the launch of the Ford Explorer, a prototype of the Explorer failed terribly in rollover tests, with two wheels being lifted off the ground in five of the 12 steering maneuvers meant to assess the risk of rollover. Other documents discussed research suggesting that Ford's twin I-beam suspension - used in the Bronco II and intended for use in the Explorer - posed a stability limitation. A 1989 memo discussing the research described the phenomena of "jacking" and "track narrowing". One of the strategies to improve the stability of the Explorer was to reduce the pressure of the tire tire. However, decreasing tire pressure causes more heat to build up in a tire from increased friction, elevating the chances of tire failure. The American people have witnessed the tragedies that may have resulted from Ford's decision. Beginning in August 1999, a year before the recall in the United States, Ford recalled Firestone tires on its vehicles in Venezuela, as well as other countries in South America, the Middle East, and Asia. Why didn't Ford protect the safety of American families as well? Many deaths and injuries may have been prevented.
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Ford recommended lower tire pressure to prevent Explorer rollovers
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/08/21/tiredeaths.pressure.ap/
The October 1989 document showed the Explorer failed safety tests and was at risk for rollovers when equipped with tires inflated to 35 pounds per square inch. But subsequent tests found it did not have that stability problem when the tires were inflated to 26 psi.
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Report: Ford Rejected Explorer Changes to Decrease Rollovers
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/fordexplorer001018.html
A new suspension system installed in 1995 and later model Explorers could have lowered the vehicle’s center of gravity by lowering the engine height, according to memos by Ford engineers obtained by the Los Angeles Times. The company decided to keep the original engine position, in part, to hold down redesign costs and to preserve profit margins of nearly 40 percent on the popular Explorer, documents said.
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So Far…
148 reported deaths and over 500 serious injuries
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/firestone_tire_recall.html
http://www.car-accidents.com/pics/9_firestone/eddie_bauer.jpg
http://www.car-accidents.com/pics/9_firestone/eddie_bauer_2.jpg
The Ford Explorer sport-utility vehicle rolls over more often than other SUV's do in tire-tread accidents, and it has vibration and suspension problems that Ford can't always explain and sometimes can't fix. Those flaws raise the suspicion that the Explorer itself is contributing to the sometimes fatal accidents that forced the Bridgestone/Firestone recall. An internal memo from Ford of Venezuela says that the Explorer "turned over unexpectedly" when Firestone tires lost their treads, but that other SUV's didn't in similar circumstances. About 31% of Explorer complaints cited mysterious vibrations. Many could not be cured, even after dealers changed tires, shock absorbers and drive-shafts. Less frequent is an odd tire-wear pattern called "cupping." It shows up in less than 2% of Explorer complaints, but never shows up in most other Ford truck models.

Ford Motor Company documents indicate that company officials had data that Firestone tires installed on Explorer sport-utility vehicles had little or no margin for safety in top-speed driving at the tire pressures Ford recommended. The papers were part of a collection of documents that Congressional investigators released before the third round of Congressional hearings investigating Ford's and Bridgestone/Firestone Inc.'s handling of tire failures now linked to more than 130 deaths in the U.S. and other countries.
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Websites dedicated to firestone/ford explorer victims
http://www.fordexplorerrollovers.com/accidents.htm

other big safety defects
steering column fires and the forced recall
http://www.fordexplorerrollovers.com/ford_safety_problems.htm
denied for 5 years fires that occur in steering columns…was sued and had to pay $425 million for hiding info from gov’t and had to be forced to recall 8 million vehicles

faulty ignition design causing stalling
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwire21_20010821.htm
http://www.flamingfords.com/ford_suit1.html
at least 11 people dead over 31 injured…as usual internal documents show engineers discovered this problem but ford mgmt ignored it

 
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Ford deserves to get reamed over the Explorer. It was (and still is) downright immorral to sell the deathtrap. Still the car buying public can't get enought SUVs so you could look at it as natural selection at work.

But to this day Ford (and almost every other car company) bold face lies to the public telling them that SUVs are safer than cars.

 
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<< But to this day Ford (and almost every other car company) bold face lies to the public telling them that SUVs are safer than cars. >>


If you're talking about single car accidents and chances of getting into a single car accident, then yes, it is an absolute lie that SUVs are safer than cars.

But if you're talking about a multi-vehicle accident, hell ... give me a gas-guzzling land-yacht anyday... the bigger the better.

Your chances of surviving a multi-car pile-up are greater if you're in a large SUV. But the flip-side of this is that SUV's are absolutely deadly to the other people in smaller cars in these type of accidents.

You'll notice on the NHTSA crash test sites, they always remind the reader that crash ratings apply only for single vehicle accidents, or accidents involving similar-sized cars. For crashes involving various sizes, the bigger cars will generally be better in terms of occupant survival. So that 5-star crash rating that our Civic gets does not mean that you will have more chances of surviving than a person in a 2-star Lincoln Navigator, in a head-on collision.

 
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Of course they are just beginning to even look at the rollover issue. Plus the tendancy of heavier car to do wonderfull thing like plow through guardrails into oncoming traffic or over a cliff.

The ONLY situation where an SUV has any sort of advantage is an accident with a considerably smaller vehicle, in every other possible instance the SUV is more dangerous.

Add to all of this that SUVs have practically no capability for accident avoidance, with poor braking, acceleration and handling capabilities. I would rather skip the accident altogether than simply survive it.

Plus the star ratings don't mean the same things, SUVs, being classified as "light trucks" are subject to much less stringent safety standards as "passenger cars".

 
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raitchison, I'm going to surprise you by complimenting your Focus: At least it isn't a Cavalier.

But seriously, if it works for you then that's terrific. I looked at and drove the Focus, New Beetle, Sentra, Elantra, Protege and others. I feel the Civic is the best small car out there overall. As far as the NHTSA stuff goes, the recalls were on the 2001 model Civic (as far as I have been able to determine) with the exception of one covering 295 of the 2002 models, one of which I own. The 2002 7th Gen. Civic is the second year of its production, as you know. The Focus has had three recalls for it's 2001 models, which is its second year, and those three recalls cover a combined 1,416,653 cars--or should I say incidents, since some of the cars will have more than one recall each. That's 295 to 1,416,653. Some of these recalls carry over from the 2000 model year, and some do not. Of course, we have the rest of the year to go, so perhaps the 2002 Civic will suddenly start coming apart at the seams, but I'm not putting any money on it. Other manufacturers may play at the recall of the month club, but lately Ford owns it. Actually recall of the week is more on target.

The day I read the Focus article that I started this thread with, there was another article beside it about Ford finding oil leaks in the head gaskets on the new trucks, and this occurred almost simultaneously with Ford having to halt production of the new Expedition, Navigator and others because of a faulty electrical part on the transfer case. They had to stop the line to repair them before the engines were even turned over the first time! Does a house have to fall on people? It's not a river in Egypt. Hellooooo????

All I can say is good luck to you. You're entitled to your opinion, and if your car is running great and all that, more power to you. I feel that I dodged a bullet by not buying a Focus, and the more I read about Ford the more I find to dislike, including everything that you have posted. It reinforces my belief that if you want a good small car you have to get an import, and that's a damn shame. The people getting screwed by purchasing these crummy American and Korean cars are often at lower income levels and can afford it the least. Reprehensible.

Vor

 
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<< . I looked at and drove the Focus, New Beetle, Sentra, Elantra, Protege and others. I feel the Civic is the best small car out there overall. >>


What did you think of the Protege compared to our Civics?

 
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<<

<< . I looked at and drove the Focus, New Beetle, Sentra, Elantra, Protege and others. I feel the Civic is the best small car out there overall. >>


What did you think of the Protege compared to our Civics? >>



I thought it was a very nice car, but I decided I wanted a coupe, plus their connection to Ford made me wonder about the quality. I'm talking about the sedan, of course, and not the Protege5, which is a copy of the Focus. But I would rank it above the Hyundai products. The Elantra I drove had a front end shimmy, but that could have been a bad tire. Still felt cheap. I had more room in the Protege, but it just didn't grab me. Too much like the previous model Corolla: dull and "invisible."

Vor

 
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My friend keeps telling me that his Protege's (ES sedan) handling and suspension is much better than our Civics' though. Did you notice that?