Dreamercivic

ok I was doing 80mph on the freeway and got a ticket for doing that, I was on the carpool lane and everyone on there was going 80mph and I ask the cop aren't u suppose to go with the traffic flow? he said no I was like what?
Everyone on the fwy was going around 80mph and I just got to get the ticket he said that the speed limit is 65mph and I went 15mph over the speed limit..I was like who drives 65 miles on the fwy?? it was on the 405 near long beach, now I have to go to court. the cops didn't show me the scaner, he just said he clock me at 80mph, I think he was folloing behind me but not for that long.
my questions
how much is the fine?
can I fight my way out of the fine ? if so how?
any advise on how to fight my way out?
or should I just take the fine and go traffic school like a man?
ps
this is my first ticket in my 3 yr of driving, should I get a warning for this?

JBlazeVA

u have a good chance prolly...

Voiceofid

iTrader: (3)

sorry, not to offend you, but i just want to simply laugh because you are in the car pool lane going 80

here on i75, we go 80 cops don't bother us, because that's only 10 over

always remember the 5 over rule and the 10 over limit

once again, sorry if you feel offended, just wanted to rant

neoretromax

if you really want to, you can request to see when his radar gun was calibrated last. If you didn't admit fault, you might be able to get away with it.

SoNiCcIvIc

<< . the cops didn't show me the scaner, he just said he clock me at 80mph, I think he was folloing behind me but not for that long.
my questions
how much is the fine?
can I fight my way out of the fine ? if so how?
any advise on how to fight my way out?
or should I just take the fine and go traffic school like a man?
ps
this is my first ticket in my 3 yr of driving, should I get a warning for this? >>



Hmm... the fine varies from county to county.
I don't think you can fight your way out of this one.
Go to traffic school if that's what you want.
You should not get a warning for this.

Unfortunately... the truth is... you were speeding. Just because everyone else is speeding doesn't mean you should do it. This gives the cop the right to do his job catching people speeding, correct? You were his target, though some cops CAN choose to pull over as many cars as they want by themselves... you were the unlucky one doing the wrong thing. Sorry.

(What's up with everyone speeding? In January/February... people get into car accidents... now it's speeding. What's next???)

KevinFWB

I'm not sure about California law because I live in FL. In Florida (at least where I live) I would highly consider contesting the ticket. Although you and the judge know that you deserve the ticket you have a few shots a getting out of it.

1. If the cop doesn't show its automatically thrown out. Descent chance on a simple 15over speeding ticket
2. Most judges take into consideration what the "average" person would do. If the judge knows that nobody does 65mph on that freeway and the average flow of traffice is 75-80 he may dismiss it.
3. If the judge feels like you have somewhat of a ligatimate argument (although you both know you were speeding) sometimes they will make you pay the price of the ticket in court costs and you will avoid the points on your liscense.

Or if you go in there with a bad attitude and not be professional about it you could get hammered with court costs and the ticket. As long as you don't go in there with attitude and saying the cop shouldn't have given you the ticket you should be alright. Just be professional on polite, you should be okay if this is your first offense. I woulnd't bother if this is your 3rd ticket within a few years.

Good luck [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

KevinFWB

Hey Voiceofid, where exactly do you live off of I-75? I live in Gainesville of I-75 and if your doing 70mph your blocking traffic.

Dreamercivic

Thanks for everyone's advise, I think I just get go to court and see how it turns out. I guess I was just unlucky, maybe because I was switching lines all over the place, attracted attentations.
thanks for everyone's input.
this is my first ticket, so I don't know what I should do...a noob

VTEC808

If RADAR was used as the cause to issue the ticket there are only 2 possible ways to have the ticket dismissed.

1.) If the cop fails to show up in court to defend his ticket.
2.) You have the right in court to have the Dept. produce the certifications on the operator (officer) & the RADAR unit, If just 1 of those certifications are expired then the ticket gets tossed.

There is no law in ANY state that says the officer has to show you the RADAR unit during a traffic stop, & 99.9% of the time the officer will tell you no.

Now If the officer "paced" you in his car (no RADAR used) then the same methods apply as above except you would request to see the current certificate for the patrol cars speedometer calibration, & if its not current then the ticket gets tossed.

Short of any of those above stated situations occuring, you won't beat a traffic ticket.

I have been through the Police Academy & learned all the traffic procedures so I figured I'd put it down exactly how it works. Plus I have beaten quite a few traffic tickets when I first started driving.

Goodluck!

Oh yeah, In Florida the speeding fine is $54 for speeding & then $4 for every mile over you were going (so the cheapest speeding ticket in FL. would be $58). have no clue though what CA. would be.

& NEVER go into court to beat a ticket & start saying "The cop had no right to give me this ticket". That will **** a judge off real fast & then you will be royally screwed. Never use the "I was going with the flow" defense either, it very rarely works. In those instances the courts almost always fall back on "If you're friend jumped off a bridge would you?" & "Just because 1 person breaks the law does not give you the right to do it as well". All it'll get you is a lecture from the Judge & I'm sure you can do without the lecture.

Dreamercivic

how should I fight them in court, do I have to brings tons of notes and ask the cop to see if he has any weakness?

VTEC808

Ok, honestly, The chances of you finding the Dept. to have an expired certification on any of those things is VERY slim & the ONLY time a cop usually fails to appear in court is if he feels he never should have written you the ticket in the first place, Thats his way of letting you out of the ticket & not having to VOID it out. You would be better off just paying the fine. I mean you could TRY to fight it but most likely you'd just end up wasting your time & possibly more money. Can you pay the ticket in CA. without going to court? if so, then by just paying it you would save yourself court costs.

If the cop appears in court with all the current valid certifications on the RADAR or Speedometer (if he paced you) you will not beat the ticket. You would only have like 1 chance out of 10,000 of beating it under those conditions. If you like those odds, then go for it & get a court date.

Crashoveride

iTrader: (2)

I thought that if you request to see the radar and they fail to show you then this can be thrown out, I thought they had to show you the reading no matter what?. I am not sure about this, its just what I heard one time. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

Good Luck

Crashoveride

Havok

Same thing happened to me basically. Thing is, I haven't gotten a ticket for over 5 years when that happened. Best advice is take it to court, hope the cop doesn't show up and if he/she does. Go in front of the judge, get on your knee's and beg [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] lol, well don't go on your knee's, just tell the judge, look, I was speeding, I admit my fault, haven't had a ticket in umpteen years. Please be leniant. Most likely, they'll give you a PBJ (Probation Before Judgement) Also, tell the judge how you thought the cop was polite and so on.

That is of course if you don't have a stupid old woman who goes before you like I do, using her 8 year old kids as witnesses, saying the cop was rude and mean. Luckily since I was polite to the cop, he told the judge I was co-operative and the judge was leniant on me.

BTW, PBJ is a probation that puts your ticket on hold for one year, if you don't get a ticket in that timeframe, your ticket is wiped off.

2cute

Dude I don't mean to offend you but damn YOU DESERVED THAT TICKET!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry how you gonna ask the cop aren't you supose to go with the flow of traffic. The speed limit in Cali as we well know is 65 on most freeways and on the 405 we know it is. Yes everyone in Cali does drive like a buck five down the freeway but guess what you are going faster than the speed limit. You were going 80 and probably going with the flow of traffic but regardless you were 15 over the speed limit. The cop has a right to pull you over for 66mph it he wants to. As far as him not showing you the radar did you ask to see it? If not he's not going to just say here's the radar gun. When you ask most police officers here will show you. Also, you didn't mention in the first post that you were changing lanes and that probably attracted attention to you well no **** you lucky you didn't get hit for excessive lane changes. As far as the fine your probably looking at like $95. It isn't worth going to court just pay the fine and take traffic school since now most courts here will allow you to take it over the internet. There are tricks to get out of tickets but like i said you deserve this ticket. You not knowing that if you are speeding you can get a ticket I think you need a refresher course so just accept your punishment like a man. Hey it will probably save your life or maybe one of the other innocent people (me) on the road with you.

djlunatic

take the class an get a radar detector

Diznavis

when my friend got pulled over the cop volunteered the radar gun


in the PA drivers manual it actually says that if the flow of traffic is faster, youre supposed to go with the flow. i got that wrong on my permit test, i answered that youre supposed to go the speed limit

nrrhgreg

Man, what is up with all these dumbf*cks bitching about getting tickets lately? Guess what, YOU BROKE THE LAW!! Yes, imagine that, the speed limit is the LAW. Meaning if you break it, take it like a man, and pay the fine. I mean, just because he didn't stop anybody else doesn't change the fact that you did indeed break the law.

It's like this, say two people break into two different cars and steal the radio, cd's, whatever out of them. The cops only find one of them. Does that mean that the cops shouldn't arrest that person because someone else did the same thing and didn't get caught?

Just take it like a man and pay your fine, traffic school, whatever, and live with it.

Snuggles

i say go with the cop didn't show ya the scanner... and the flow of the traffic... if you fight it and lose, it'll be the exact same thing as you just acceptin it... so put on your gloves and go out there and give em hell...

R3DF0G

Shoulda took the class man. I got one for doin 70 in a 50. It was a speed trap and they pulled over 6 of us because we were all going the same speed, but i took the class and now im off the hook. No insurance increase either Whether you were going with the flow or not, it's still considered illegal, no matter how unfair it may seem to you.

VTEC808

RADAR units work like this.... When the operator wants to get someones speed he aims it at the vehicle in question & then pulls a trigger & that sends out a beam at the vehicle, once he gets the speed of the vehicle the speed disappears from the screen, there is no print-out or anything that RECORDS the speed. There is also a new device being used now called LIDAR, It works basically the exact same as RADAR except that it only uses a very tiny laser beam that is usually aimed at a headlight or tailight on the vehicle being targeted since those are 1 of the most reflective areas on a car. a RADAR detector will not work at all when they use LIDAR on you & a RADAR detector will only alert you to the presence of a RADAR unit if the RADAR unit is turned on BEFORE you get to it, most of the time the officer does not pull the trigger on the RADAR until he sees you & within 2 secs (not enough time to drop to the speed limit) of pulling that trigger he has your speed. So in essence, unless the officer is STUPID & leaves the unit on, a RADAR detector is useless.

Hope this helps some.

spoiledsteph

the way that i heard about radars, from a cop, is that they have to be about 200 ft in front of you to get a good and accurate reading. the farther that they are away fromyou, the wider the beam spreads.

imagine you are on a 4 lane highway, and you are comin up to an onramp. cops love to hide in those. their beams are on, cuz they are just achin to give a ticket. well, you are with a group of cars, neither at the head or the back of the group, all doin the same speed. the farther away your group is, the wider the beam gets, and gets all the speeds. the cop then just picks a car and goes after them. the ones picked are usually either at the head or the back of the group, since they are the most obvious ones. but if a cop pulls you over sayin that he clocked you goin 80 in a 65, and you ask to see the radar gun, if he fails to show you, then the ticket can be tossed out. the gun records the speed in a little memory or something, and only disappears after the cop clears it.

and cops love goin to court for these things. if it was at nite, and they normally work nite, then they get paid overtime to go to court. same with day cops...its all overtime to them...so of course they will go. your best bet if you wanna get out of everything, fine included, is to file a bunch of paperwork withthe court, delaying your date...and keep doin that. eventually the cop will forget about it, and when you do show up...the cop won't, and the ticket will be tossed....

thats what i would do

VTEC808

I doubt he really wants to drag this ticket out for 6+ months, & even then there is no guarantee he'll get out of the ticket. If you research the laws in your area you will see that there is no law or regulation that states a police officer must show you any of their equipment (RADAR unit). I mean come on, if a cop "paces you" do you think he'd be forced to show you his speedometer? Ok, here it is, straight from a Police Dept. :

Speed Enforcement

One of the most common questions asked of our officers is, "How does your RADAR work?" or, "How did you catch me?"

RADAR, Radio Detection and Ranging

Radar operates on a "Doppler effect." The radar emits a sound wave. When the RADAR is pointed at a moving vehicle, the wave returns to the radar unit at a different pitch than what it leaves at. The change in the sound waves emits a Doppler tone. Tone is the shift between waves sent out and the waves returning. This is how the RADAR measures speed. Unlike the LIDAR, which emits a one inch beam, the RADAR emits a wider beam, putting more emphasis on a good visual estimate by the officer.

When an officer operating a RADAR unit begins his shift, he will perform a diagnostic circuit test and LED light test on the unit. The RADAR uses Doppler tones to measure speed so, the officer uses tuning forks to test the unit. These tests are repeated at the end of each shift.

If the RADAR fails any of the tests before a shift, it is sent for repair. If the RADAR fails any of the tests after a shift, it is repaired and all of the speeding tickets issued that day must be voided.

An officer will park near the roadway with an unobstructed view of traffic. When the officer sees a vehicle, he thinks is speeding, he will first make a visual estimate of the speed of the vehicle. After the officer makes a visual estimate, he will release a "hold" button. The unit will give a digital readout and emit a Doppler tone. The pitch of the tone is noticeably higher for faster moving vehicles than it is for slower moving vehicles. For the officer to write a ticket, the visual estimate, Doppler tone, and digital readout must all be consistent with each other.

RADARS, unlike lasers also have a moving mode where the officer can be moving and measure your speed while going toward or away from you. The moving RADAR can also be equipped with antennae's in the back window of the patrol vehicle to measure the speed of vehicles coming from behind the officer. When using this feature, the officer must also read a digital readout on the radar unit telling the officer how fast his vehicle is going. This readout must be consistent with the officer's speedometer.

In the State of Florida, each officer must attend a forty-hour certification course to operate a RADAR unit. During this class we learn how the RADAR operates. We also learn how to watch a car travel down the road and visually estimate how fast it is going. We have to be able to estimate the speeds of a pre determined amount of cars plus or minus five miles per hour. Finally, the officer must pass a written and practical examination. To be a certified LIDAR operator an officer must hold a current RADAR certification and attend an additional twelve hours of training concluding with a written and practical examination.

Q: Are the devices serviced regularly?

A: RADARS, LASERS and speedometers are required to be sent to a testing center and certified for accuracy every six months.

Q: I saw the officer as I passed him at 49 St. and Park Blvd. and I looked at my speedometer. I know I was not speeding then.

A: Quite often, the officer actually catches a speeder long before they see him. A LIDAR can acquire your speed from well more than 1000 feet away.

Q: Why wouldn't the officer let me see a readout on the RADAR?

A: Most Speed detection devices do not hold the speed of the vehicle. No device in use in the state produces a paper printout of your speed. We are not required by law to show a speeder our equipment.

Q: Could the officer have received a readout from a vehicle next to me?

A: Yes. However, the officer is required to first make a visual estimate of the vehicle and then use the device. With a LIDAR, this mistake is highly unlikely, as the officer places a red target on your vehicle.

Q: Why didn't my RADAR/LASER detector go off?

A: A RADAR operator may have been using the hold button, in which case your detector would alert just as the officer activates the RADAR unit. With LIDAR, the one inch beam actually has to hit the antenna of your detector or it will not alert. Also, the officer may have simply pulled in behind you and "paced"you. This is accomplished by traveling behind a speeder for a few blocks at a steady distance and monitoring your speed on a certified speedometer.

Q: Do officers have to have their parking lights on when operating RADAR or LIDAR at night?

A: No.

Q: I have decided to contest the ticket in court. What type of evidence can I expect the officer to present in a typical traffic court trial?

A: This varies on a case to case basis. Expect the officer to have his RADAR or LIDAR course certificates; LIDAR, speedometer, or RADAR certification showing the device was tested in the last six months; log showing that the device was properly tested before and after the shift and witnesses if any. It is also common for officers to present photographs of the area and copies of the in car video tape.


I know this is A LOT but I hope it helps educate some people who might be oblivious to how things really work.

RRCivic01

<< always remember the 5 over rule and the 10 over limit >>



that's what i live by too! no wonder i've never gotten a ticket in 3 and half years of driving?

Dreamercivic

THanks for the reply, I just didn't think I dersver it, and yes if anyone of ask me if "everyone jump out of the building. would you?" I would say Heck YEA, because everyone jump off the titanic when the ship strated sinking and they live, and if everyone is doing it, then there must be something right about it. as far as in breaking the law, I peronaly think that I shouldn't get a ticket because everyone was driving 80 , just same thing as everyone is burning cd and downloading mp3, against the law right? but everyone is doing it.
and vtec808 is right, they don't need to show u the radar gun if they don't want it, they risk their lives by going back to their car to get it. my court is in the morning at 830. I just have one more question for everyone

on my ticket it says I have to go to court, but don't get something in the mail that tells me that I can pay the bail, just bacially admiting guilty and go to traffic school for that? or I have to go to court no matter what?

and the excuse I was thinking of saying I go to court is that I was being tailgated by someone ,and in the book from dmv, it said that if u get tailgated, usually u would have to speed up to prevent them from tailgtating u, or change lanes.

thanks for everyone's advise

Cali

say that you want to fight the ticket. if the cop doesn't show up to your court date, the ticket is thrown away. if he shows up and you lose the case, you can still go to traffic school and have the ticket wiped off your record. (atleast that is my understanding of CA law) if you do go to traffic school, do it on the internet. it only took me 45 minutes and $20 to pass the class. it's easier than finding a hooker in Tijuana.

speedyJB

what i would do is find a friend who runs a shop and have him write me a receipt for fixing my speedo cable.... cuz if you have any wheels besides stock you have to do this anyways... so then you take the ticket to court with the receipt and it gets thrown out due to faulty equipment.....ah ha who is laughing now pig!!

speedyJB

but the strangest thing for me was when i was stationed in cali... while there 18 mos., i got 3 tickets... all for 80 in a 65... all three were from officers coming onto the highway... the 8 in san diego... the 10 before palm springs and the 15 around victorville... bu for some reason they never showed up on my record in ky??? actually it was like i paid them and poof they disappeared... thats some strange stuff??? when i was in germany they had a picture of me from a camera speeding and two weeks later in the mail was a ticket....

viper775

<<

<< always remember the 5 over rule and the 10 over limit >>



that's what i live by too! no wonder i've never gotten a ticket in 3 and half years of driving? >>




The day of you getting a ticket is coming so saw out [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

VTEC808

There actually is no 5 over RULE & 10 over LIMIT. It's a 5 over LIMIT, most of the time you will get nailed for 10 over depending on what type of road you are on. Interstates usually tolerate 10 over but for instance, If the speed limit was 25, do you think a cop would give you 35? keep it no more than 5 over & you'll be fine (unless you happen to run into a REALLY bored cop or anxious rookie)

Oh yeah, & Dreamercivic, Charles Manson was responsible for LOTS of peoples murders, there are people out there who have murdered people & not gotten caught, should they release Charles Manson from prison since others have murdered people & not gotten caught? Do you REALLY feel that an "all or nothing" philosophy should be applied to enforcing the law? You have to catch all the criminals or catch none? Just something to think about.

Dreamercivic

yeah in the end I just decied to wait for the letter to come and pay the bail and take the traffic school
vtec808 murdering and going 80 on a fwy are two different things. althought I understand what you are trying to tell me. The law sometimes have to decied which is more important then the other, which murder is way more important then one traffic ticket. Which is why everyone that is downloading mp3 are not getting caught.

one more thing, do I get a mail thats tells me to pay the fine?