orion_squall

Hi,

I think almost everybody knows about the F1 Direct shift Gear Box.

In current Ferrarri F1 race car, it is having the F1 direct shift gear box which is electronically controlled. Therefore, there is no clutch. Thus it is almost considered "automatic" in our eyes.

This new technologie is now used on Enzo. Of course I assume everyone here knows.

I am not 100% sure, but the technologie is also used in Lexus IS250, 350, Acura CSX, some high end sports Audi and Benz etc.

Does that mean gradually end of manual trasmission in the future? People until now mostly associate manual transmission to "cool" and "sports car". But it is hard to find something which is cooler than the F1, Ferrarri and car I brifly listed above.

So the whole image is about to change, automatic is taking over manual?

01vic

yea, its sad....

clutch pedal will be no more in the future...

Rennen

iTrader: (35)

eh... imo, civics will always have the option of AT or MT. and im assuming that this new technology will cost some serious $$$, so civics wont get it due to honda trying to keep the cost of the car down.

shmik1

iTrader: (6)

no way, there will always be a demand for manual IMO. Those "sport tronic" and "shiftless manual" deals have been around on numerous cars for a long time, and it hasn't taken over.

Ichiban

iTrader: (2)

You have to realize one thing. Just because it has paddle shifters does not mean it's a auto gearbox. There are Auto gearboxs with paddle shifters and there are automated clutch manual gearboxes. The good kind like the ones in F1 and Ferrari are the automated clutch boxes. It means that it has a clutch that engages and disengages when you pull on one of the paddles, whereas the other kind like in the mercs are paddle shift autos. They have the torque converter and are shifted using clutchpacks and plantary gears. Then you have the DSG gearbox from VW which has 2 clutches but it works like a regular manual. The DSG has one of the two clutches "readying" the next gear. Say your in first, the second clutch is ready to engage second gear. When you shift to second the first clutch moves over to ready third gear.


But because there will always be people that like the traditional clutch pedal there will always be a traditional manual gearbox. The Porsche Carrera GT uses the normal 6 speed gearbox and IMO that is the best looking and best supercar

orion_squall

Sorry, CSX has it.

Jdm civic has it too, just because US Civic does not have it does no mean the whole world can't.

orion_squall

Automatic electronically clutch control kind of making it automatic.

I am just asking will the electronic eventutally take over pure human shifting as now some major sport representative cars are having it. So pure manual will one day be extreme minority.

Please not fight over term "automatic" with the assumption that I am talking about the "automatic" our honda are having. It is not the point.

ex2k3

It will depend on the car. High horsepower cars need to shift faster to stay in the optimal power band, however cars that don't need to shift in less half a second will probably continue to use a traditional clutch and gearbox.

CustomXSpunjah

manual transmissions with clutch pedals will never be "eliminated"
accords may stop coming in standard transmissions, acuras may convert but the manual tranny will always live civics will probably ALWAYS have that option, the control of the engine in a manual tranny is too good to be overlooked.

orion_squall

It is good to know...

Because when we reach the age of 50 something, if we are still lucky, we would probably want to get some high ends car like Lexus or BMW. By that time maybe most high ends will have direct shift, and standard would be a special option with discriminating warantees.

dre2600

A lot of cheaper cars will maintain it (because its cheaper and still gives better fuel economy) and I think a lot of more purist cars will too (Elises, Miatas, S2000s, etc.). An automatic implies that you're relinquishing control to a machine/computer, for some people, proper clutch feel, shifting, is a part of the driving experience, every time you read about a computer taking control from a human being in a car, nobody ever has anything good to say, just look at the trouble that everyone gave BMW's iDrive system (and still does).

Civicccc

I'm sure it will be around with economy cars. But I do think it will be rare to find the high end vehicles with it. Especially since streets get crowded more and more everyday. Not many people want to deal with a clutch.

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

its not an automatic, its sequential. it seems like an auto, but its different.

i dont think the manual gearbox will go away...or at least not anytime soon. people still like shifting...at least some still do. the gearboxes on the is250 and acuras and MBs are tiptronic, i dont think theyre quite the same technology as the ferrari...or the SMG on the m3.

and also, just as a comparisson, the lambos still use the traditional shifting gearbox with the clutch etc. and the gallardo is the direct competitor in performance to the 360 and the f430...which means its a great car regardless of the way the tranny is set up.

the sequential gearbox on the ferrari, even though its the only one shown in everything now, is still an option. it costs about 10k to put it in. so not every single ferrari has that in there.

orion_squall

When I think about it, it is very plausible that the Direct shift in the Enzo and direct shift in an Lexus or Acura are completely different.

Enzo's might be same or better shifting than classic manual.

But in IS250 and CSX (Jdm Civic) the Direct shift, aka paddle shifting, is just an imitation of F1. In which the shifting should be slower than classic manual. It is closer to our automatic.

Is it true?

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

it IS an automatic. toyota/honda/chrysler...none of these will put a sequential gearbox (what is in the f1/enzo) into their cars any time soon. the "paddle" shifter is just the interface for the shifter. the actual transmission is the same as the steptronic/whatever transmissions that simulate the shifting of a manual tranny w/o a clutch.

these are NOT manual transmissions, they are just autos that you can shift yourself. the higher end ones, like in the bimmer/audi are ok. theyre still slow to shift and take some getting used to, but they are still automatic. the enzo/f1 and the transmission in the bmw m3 SMG are sequential. a sequential transmission, basically, is a manual that is shifted by a computer. the clutch is engaged/disengaged by a computer, and its done MUCH MUCH faster than humanely possible.

if you want to learn about the actual differences, im sure howstuffworks.com will have some article on it.

CuRiOuSfIsH

iTrader: (13)

^^^ yuup, those "sport shifters" are more like.... slightly smarter auto's where you can somewhat control the shifting.... (seems almost like putting it in D2 then slapping it up to D3). I have tried those systems on a BMW and Saab..... not too good for spirited driving.
SMG and Ferrari F1 gearbox, Toyota's system in MR-2 and Alfa's system are all clutch based.
I dont think those types of gearboxes will eliminate traditional standard manual. There have been a lot of reviews where ppl say that these systems are too jerky even in auto mode. And from my own experience with a sequential manual, I wouldnt get it.... let's say for example, youre on an incline on a hill, and youre stopped. Light turns green, you step on the gas..... but have NO idea when the car's computer will decide to engage the clutch so you can stop going backwards.....

Curiouz_G

iTrader: (1)

SMG is soooo much nicer than manual... auto clutch but u can also control the engine just as much as a true manual car. it also shifts much much faster. with a flick of a wrist, you going from 6th gear to 3rd faster than any human alive. yes i said it. i doubt anyone can shift faster than the new SMG 3found in the m6 or even the SMG 2 in the e46 m3's.

CuRiOuSfIsH

iTrader: (13)

with 1 flick of the wrist you can go from 6th to 3rd gear?? I didnt know sequential gearboxes knew how to skip gears....

orion_squall

I think he meant 3 flick on the left paddle.


So anyone tried the direct shift of 330CI? and Lexus Is350?

are those legit?

MajinB

iTrader: (21)

manual trannys will never become extinct. not in my lifetime anyway

rice4lyfe

iTrader: (9)

its seems like the traditional automatic gearboxes will be extinct. As for now, our cars usualy come with two options: 5/6 spd manual or "triptronic" automatic (with taht jagged shifting). IMO it will never replace the manual just purley for the cost. Many companies give these options because they have to just to increase sales. Think about it, i garuntee that most, yet all of the companies would perfer to make manual gearboxes only, but since the public is lazy (<- sorry but tahts imo) they are forced to create this which means more money to build. Now that they have this "automatic shifting", they are required to add in another feature where they jack up the price just for that option.

IMO, the clutch will never be gone, and just replace the traditional automatic transmissionss

CuRiOuSfIsH

iTrader: (13)

I know I'm just playing around.... but I am somewhat confident that a human can downshift from 4-2 faster than BMW SMG (4-3-2)... not sure about 6-2 though....

gelshmoff

iTrader: (1)

I hear that. I used to live down the street from an auto transmission shop--that place was ALWAYS busy. they seem to have more unexpected problems than the manual gearboxes.

as for the clutch, I don't think it'll go away anytime soon. for a part that has been on cars since the beginning, it will take a lot for it to go away.

Cptn. Slow

There will always be a demand for manual gearboxes from the die-hard old school racers. A manual might be a little more fun and I personally enjoy the challenge of working my *** off driving.
And one drawback to these flappy paddle gearboxes is parallel parking/backing up. They are very jumpy at take off so it makes those two tasks very difficult.

CustomXSpunjah

if driving a manual is "working your *** off" you need to learn how to drive :P
The paddle gearboxes are weak because you cant control launch rpm