Do you believe body kits actually add to downforce?
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The Beer-man
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Do you believe body kits actually add to downforce?
I can't stand people who think body kits add downforce. I hear these ricers say: "Well, the good companies like Veilside, and WW test their kits in a wind tunnel. That's such BS. Every companies kits have the same basic design for every car. Like the R34 kit has the same design on a Prelude as it does on the Civic. The same design wont work right for two different cars. Then the same ricers say well, on GT cars they have body kits. NO THEY DONT! They might have a rear diffuser and/or a small lip soiler and thats it. No body kits. And even then the ricers say, it's body kits are lighter than the stock bumper. How is this possible? 9 times out of 10 the typical replacement bumpers are larger in size which means....more weight. This proves my point. Body kits are for looks only.
most body kit are held on with ac ouple of screws and 3M double sided tape..... if these retards can get their Civic going fast enough to where the wind might catch the body kit then it would break off.
only thinkg a body kit might do is open up some air movement int he front bumpper cuz of the bigger air dam. but thats pretty irrelavent with our cars...
only thinkg a body kit might do is open up some air movement int he front bumpper cuz of the bigger air dam. but thats pretty irrelavent with our cars...
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Rep Power: 283 I use to like body kits then I realized everyone had them..so I had to change up my style didn't want to be like everyone else.. now it seems everyone likes the sleeper style ;\.. This is one of the reasons I like the 7th Gen's. Around my area all of the 7th gens have some ugly body kits on it and are slow as hell I'll be the only one with the "stock" look.
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some companies DO research body kit downforce and airflow. of course this shows in the price of the body kit. wind tunnel testing and engineering is quite expensive. mugen is one such example of a company that uses wind tunnel testing. (mugen could not improve on the stock S2000 rear bumper, so they simply modified it to fit their exhaust) RM racing uses NASA's wind tunnel for some of their body kits. TRD does wind tunnel testing too.
those are a few i can think of offhand.
those are a few i can think of offhand.
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
some companies DO research body kit downforce and airflow. of course this shows in the price of the body kit. wind tunnel testing and engineering is quite expensive. mugen is one such example of a company that uses wind tunnel testing. (mugen could not improve on the stock S2000 rear bumper, so they simply modified it to fit their exhaust) RM racing uses NASA's wind tunnel for some of their body kits. TRD does wind tunnel testing too.
those are a few i can think of offhand.
those are a few i can think of offhand.
Veilside HAS to for what they are charging! maybe greddy too, but I doubt that.
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Rep Power: 381 Sure they add down force.... More weight = more weight on the tires.... 
But seriously, there are very few body kits that do any thing to impove arodynamics or add down force... Most just add weight and wind resistance (kinda like most Wings...)
But seriously, there are very few body kits that do any thing to impove arodynamics or add down force... Most just add weight and wind resistance (kinda like most Wings...)
Originally Posted by Zzyzx
More weight = more weight on the tires....
I dont know why peopel think body kits are heavy. My front bumper from my kit weighs the same as the stock bumper. side skirts weigh maybe like 10 pounds a piece and the rear lip weighs maybe 10 pounds.
thats 30 pounds extra over stock (and i'm waay over estimating)..... dont know if thats even considerable way to add weight
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Rep Power: 347 Most of the ones that look extreme are just for looks. There are very few that actually direct air towards the engine and away from the car for a performance gain. Besides, what kind of performance product is stuck on with 3M?
i know i'm wrong 
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Rep Power: 374 even if body kits added down force, our damn cars can't get going fast enough in order to take advantage of it. what are your thoughts on a lip kit?
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The Beer-man
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Rep Power: 0 Don't get me wrong, I like tasteful body kits and stuff it's just that the mass produced kits are useless performeance wise, and sometimes styling wise. Most kits look the same for all the different cars, and while the lines flow nicely on one car, they wont on another. These are the kits that arent tested in a wind tunnel. They are the same but are changed only to fit the next car.
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Rep Power: 0 it only rubs the fact that import racing has become vastly commercial.. just like raves.. they've turned a once fine tuned hobby into shelves of fiberglass and polyurethane bumpers and wings. its all just a way to catch the wind.. literally. Just do what you like..
where would the civic be without it's almighty vtec 
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ok....im probley about to get flamed or somthin.. but what ever.
depending on the body kit , be it a highley tuned "wind tunnel test" body kit. or just some p.o.s fiberglass one...if the FRONT bumper hand the correct angles then YES it WILL create some sort of down force.....NO. its not the kind of down force you think of when. you hear of Cart cars (indy cars) thouse cars are literaly all downforce tunned....its simple physics....take a flat say 3x3 piece of fiberglass, cardboard or whatever. and turn it at a -45 degree angle( that would be the front of the card board down and the back up). drive 5 mph and you'll see wind pushing it down.... alot of bodykits have crazy angles on them so..they create down force...not enought to make your car be sucked to the ground but enough to pull the bodykit away from your cars frame.....bodykits are just for astetics......lip kits are the same....The only whay they could even possibly work. is if they were attached to you car to the point that they have no "give" when driving.....Auto X guys dont apply to this because the think suspention, and weight..unless they have a 2 mile strait , they dont notice any diffrence and dont really need to care.....plus they shouldnt even have bodykits on there cars.. its add'd weight and the corners they take ( assuming there car has roll) the kit would get ripp'd off...
you just awnserd your own question......and yes. you can get your car going fast enough for them to take advantage of it....70+ is about enough speed.
lol how... how. could any bodykit wether it be your OEM or Aftermarket affect vtec engagment??? if you've had problems or know someone who has had problems w/ performace when vtec engages....its not the body kit....its the car.
p.s when i say body kits im only talking about a front bumper kit, not sideskirts or a rear bumper....if anything wide body sideskirts or even skirts that hang over your cars body even a inch create drag...
depending on the body kit , be it a highley tuned "wind tunnel test" body kit. or just some p.o.s fiberglass one...if the FRONT bumper hand the correct angles then YES it WILL create some sort of down force.....NO. its not the kind of down force you think of when. you hear of Cart cars (indy cars) thouse cars are literaly all downforce tunned....its simple physics....take a flat say 3x3 piece of fiberglass, cardboard or whatever. and turn it at a -45 degree angle( that would be the front of the card board down and the back up). drive 5 mph and you'll see wind pushing it down.... alot of bodykits have crazy angles on them so..they create down force...not enought to make your car be sucked to the ground but enough to pull the bodykit away from your cars frame.....bodykits are just for astetics......lip kits are the same....The only whay they could even possibly work. is if they were attached to you car to the point that they have no "give" when driving.....Auto X guys dont apply to this because the think suspention, and weight..unless they have a 2 mile strait , they dont notice any diffrence and dont really need to care.....plus they shouldnt even have bodykits on there cars.. its add'd weight and the corners they take ( assuming there car has roll) the kit would get ripp'd off...
Originally Posted by blouisgod
even if body kits added down force, our damn cars can't get going fast enough in order to take advantage of it. what are your thoughts on a lip kit?
you just awnserd your own question......and yes. you can get your car going fast enough for them to take advantage of it....70+ is about enough speed.
Originally Posted by _Viper_
Some body kits greatly Hurt performance especially when Vtec is engaged....
lol how... how. could any bodykit wether it be your OEM or Aftermarket affect vtec engagment??? if you've had problems or know someone who has had problems w/ performace when vtec engages....its not the body kit....its the car.p.s when i say body kits im only talking about a front bumper kit, not sideskirts or a rear bumper....if anything wide body sideskirts or even skirts that hang over your cars body even a inch create drag...
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Rep Power: 275 I know that Mugen does a lot of wind tunnel testing on there kits and its been proved to add down force to both the front and rear of the car which helps quite a bit on road courses.
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Originally Posted by _Viper_
Honda is now offering a Special Tunning selenoid that engages Vtec almost immediatly..Its a new Honda performance upgrade thats been kept a scret at Honda's Secret Technical Lab HSTL for short...
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Originally Posted by Down_
bodykits are just for astetics......lip kits are the same....
but if you're serious about road racing, a wind tunnel tested body kit that helps aerodynamic flow and downforce can make a HUGE difference on the track.
Originally Posted by SIinthesky
I know that Mugen does a lot of wind tunnel testing on there kits and its been proved to add down force to both the front and rear of the car which helps quite a bit on road courses.
now, that said. you are a ricer if you talk about downforce for your car when you don't even race on a real race track road course. because that's the only place downforce matters to us at the consumer level.
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Rep Power: 381 Funny thing is, people have this misconception at to what speeds must be attained in order for ground effects to create downforce....
all I can say is, look at Improved Tourng cars.... Notice the BIG air dam on the front of most of them?? That creates a Vacume under the front end of the car, manking down force. Guess what speeds ITC and ITA cars get to on most straights.... MAYBE 100 MPH... thing is, Downforce is Worthless for straight lines, in fact Downforce can slow you down in straight lines.... So whay would an IT car want down force? FOR THE CORNERS!!!!! (Down Force is free traction afterall...) and Cornering Speeds are in the 40 and less Range.... So, a properly applied part, such as an air dam can create usefull amounts of down force at lower speeds.
Why dont I have an Air dam, if they are so usefull? couple of things... Impraticallity... Most airdams only sit a few inches (1 or 2) off the ground, and are fairly solid (To resist wind).... so as a street car, I think it would be tough to not destroy one on the street. Then theres the thing about Increasing down force on the nose of the car tends to make the rear end light (More traction up front+same traction on the rear = more oversteer/less understeer) and thats not something thats great for the street.
Examples of Air dams...
all I can say is, look at Improved Tourng cars.... Notice the BIG air dam on the front of most of them?? That creates a Vacume under the front end of the car, manking down force. Guess what speeds ITC and ITA cars get to on most straights.... MAYBE 100 MPH... thing is, Downforce is Worthless for straight lines, in fact Downforce can slow you down in straight lines.... So whay would an IT car want down force? FOR THE CORNERS!!!!! (Down Force is free traction afterall...) and Cornering Speeds are in the 40 and less Range.... So, a properly applied part, such as an air dam can create usefull amounts of down force at lower speeds.
Why dont I have an Air dam, if they are so usefull? couple of things... Impraticallity... Most airdams only sit a few inches (1 or 2) off the ground, and are fairly solid (To resist wind).... so as a street car, I think it would be tough to not destroy one on the street. Then theres the thing about Increasing down force on the nose of the car tends to make the rear end light (More traction up front+same traction on the rear = more oversteer/less understeer) and thats not something thats great for the street.
Examples of Air dams...
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Funny thing is, people have this misconception at to what speeds must be attained in order for ground effects to create downforce....
all I can say is, look at Improved Tourng cars.... Notice the BIG air dam on the front of most of them?? That creates a Vacume under the front end of the car, manking down force. Guess what speeds ITC and ITA cars get to on most straights.... MAYBE 100 MPH... thing is, Downforce is Worthless for straight lines, in fact Downforce can slow you down in straight lines.... So whay would an IT car want down force? FOR THE CORNERS!!!!! (Down Force is free traction afterall...) and Cornering Speeds are in the 40 and less Range.... So, a properly applied part, such as an air dam can create usefull amounts of down force at lower speeds.
all I can say is, look at Improved Tourng cars.... Notice the BIG air dam on the front of most of them?? That creates a Vacume under the front end of the car, manking down force. Guess what speeds ITC and ITA cars get to on most straights.... MAYBE 100 MPH... thing is, Downforce is Worthless for straight lines, in fact Downforce can slow you down in straight lines.... So whay would an IT car want down force? FOR THE CORNERS!!!!! (Down Force is free traction afterall...) and Cornering Speeds are in the 40 and less Range.... So, a properly applied part, such as an air dam can create usefull amounts of down force at lower speeds.
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CWest
Mugen
Top Secret
TRD
Are 4 main companies that I know test their kits in a wind tunnel because they were all developed for the race track.
CWest
Mugen
Top Secret
TRD
Are 4 main companies that I know test their kits in a wind tunnel because they were all developed for the race track.
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Originally Posted by Down_
ok....im probley about to get flamed or somthin.. but what ever.
depending on the body kit , be it a highley tuned "wind tunnel test" body kit. or just some p.o.s fiberglass one...if the FRONT bumper hand the correct angles then YES it WILL create some sort of down force.....NO. its not the kind of down force you think of when. you hear of Cart cars (indy cars) thouse cars are literaly all downforce tunned....its simple physics....take a flat say 3x3 piece of fiberglass, cardboard or whatever. and turn it at a -45 degree angle( that would be the front of the card board down and the back up). drive 5 mph and you'll see wind pushing it down.... alot of bodykits have crazy angles on them so..they create down force...not enought to make your car be sucked to the ground but enough to pull the bodykit away from your cars frame.....bodykits are just for astetics......lip kits are the same....The only whay they could even possibly work. is if they were attached to you car to the point that they have no "give" when driving.....Auto X guys dont apply to this because the think suspention, and weight..unless they have a 2 mile strait , they dont notice any diffrence and dont really need to care.....plus they shouldnt even have bodykits on there cars.. its add'd weight and the corners they take ( assuming there car has roll) the kit would get ripp'd off...
you just awnserd your own question......and yes. you can get your car going fast enough for them to take advantage of it....70+ is about enough speed.
lol how... how. could any bodykit wether it be your OEM or Aftermarket affect vtec engagment??? if you've had problems or know someone who has had problems w/ performace when vtec engages....its not the body kit....its the car.
p.s when i say body kits im only talking about a front bumper kit, not sideskirts or a rear bumper....if anything wide body sideskirts or even skirts that hang over your cars body even a inch create drag...
depending on the body kit , be it a highley tuned "wind tunnel test" body kit. or just some p.o.s fiberglass one...if the FRONT bumper hand the correct angles then YES it WILL create some sort of down force.....NO. its not the kind of down force you think of when. you hear of Cart cars (indy cars) thouse cars are literaly all downforce tunned....its simple physics....take a flat say 3x3 piece of fiberglass, cardboard or whatever. and turn it at a -45 degree angle( that would be the front of the card board down and the back up). drive 5 mph and you'll see wind pushing it down.... alot of bodykits have crazy angles on them so..they create down force...not enought to make your car be sucked to the ground but enough to pull the bodykit away from your cars frame.....bodykits are just for astetics......lip kits are the same....The only whay they could even possibly work. is if they were attached to you car to the point that they have no "give" when driving.....Auto X guys dont apply to this because the think suspention, and weight..unless they have a 2 mile strait , they dont notice any diffrence and dont really need to care.....plus they shouldnt even have bodykits on there cars.. its add'd weight and the corners they take ( assuming there car has roll) the kit would get ripp'd off...
you just awnserd your own question......and yes. you can get your car going fast enough for them to take advantage of it....70+ is about enough speed.
lol how... how. could any bodykit wether it be your OEM or Aftermarket affect vtec engagment??? if you've had problems or know someone who has had problems w/ performace when vtec engages....its not the body kit....its the car.p.s when i say body kits im only talking about a front bumper kit, not sideskirts or a rear bumper....if anything wide body sideskirts or even skirts that hang over your cars body even a inch create drag...
my car goes about 65 on the highway, in a straight line, following other cars who are going 65, in a straight line. i dont recall going over 70 on a mountain road lately.
Originally Posted by Zzyzx
Funny thing is, people have this misconception at to what speeds must be attained in order for ground effects to create downforce....
all I can say is, look at Improved Tourng cars.... Notice the BIG air dam on the front of most of them?? That creates a Vacume under the front end of the car, manking down force. Guess what speeds ITC and ITA cars get to on most straights.... MAYBE 100 MPH... thing is, Downforce is Worthless for straight lines, in fact Downforce can slow you down in straight lines.... So whay would an IT car want down force? FOR THE CORNERS!!!!! (Down Force is free traction afterall...) and Cornering Speeds are in the 40 and less Range.... So, a properly applied part, such as an air dam can create usefull amounts of down force at lower speeds.
Why dont I have an Air dam, if they are so usefull? couple of things... Impraticallity... Most airdams only sit a few inches (1 or 2) off the ground, and are fairly solid (To resist wind).... so as a street car, I think it would be tough to not destroy one on the street. Then theres the thing about Increasing down force on the nose of the car tends to make the rear end light (More traction up front+same traction on the rear = more oversteer/less understeer) and thats not something thats great for the street.
Examples of Air dams...
all I can say is, look at Improved Tourng cars.... Notice the BIG air dam on the front of most of them?? That creates a Vacume under the front end of the car, manking down force. Guess what speeds ITC and ITA cars get to on most straights.... MAYBE 100 MPH... thing is, Downforce is Worthless for straight lines, in fact Downforce can slow you down in straight lines.... So whay would an IT car want down force? FOR THE CORNERS!!!!! (Down Force is free traction afterall...) and Cornering Speeds are in the 40 and less Range.... So, a properly applied part, such as an air dam can create usefull amounts of down force at lower speeds.
Why dont I have an Air dam, if they are so usefull? couple of things... Impraticallity... Most airdams only sit a few inches (1 or 2) off the ground, and are fairly solid (To resist wind).... so as a street car, I think it would be tough to not destroy one on the street. Then theres the thing about Increasing down force on the nose of the car tends to make the rear end light (More traction up front+same traction on the rear = more oversteer/less understeer) and thats not something thats great for the street.
Examples of Air dams...
Originally Posted by blouisgod
my car goes about 65 on the highway, in a straight line, following other cars who are going 65, in a straight line. i dont recall going over 70 on a mountain road lately.
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Rep Power: 0 i have the r34 kit for my 02 civic coupe and I can tell you that my kit's pieces are definitely lighter than the stock bumper on the front and rear. You gotta figure, it's fiberglass (yeah I know..bad Idea...) and it's lighter than the ABS plastic. Also, there is less material because of all the gaps in the r34 design. The side skirts, on the other hand, are like 3 times the size of the stock skirts...so yeah..they are heavier. :P
