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http://www.users.bigpond.com/pgscott...resonator.html

 
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hmm...only dyno charts will prove his point.
good find though
+rep (gotta wait 24 hrs.)

 
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Flow benches work for me!
+rep.

On my car, if you remove the intake piping from the airbox forward (away from throttle body), you'll typically gain as much HP as a CAI.


Of course, the VR engine is unique, and it has a very long intake manifold that goes over the top of the engine, heating up the air as it's routed.

 
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veyr interesting article. bascially telling us that all of us wiht intakes ( most of us) are losing power. awesome.

 
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read that about 2 years ago, I took my intake off after that.

 
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i understand he did his own testing with his own intake he made, if im not mistaken.... correct?

i guess point number 1, is that people HAVE done back to back dyno comparisons with stock vs CAI intakes, and have SEEN gains on the dyno.... substanial gains sometimes at that. how can you say a CAI wont give you any performance when it's dyno proven to add horsepower?

my second question would be this. he used his own home made intake. in case he didn't realize, an intake is more than just some tube you slap on the car. these intakes, (AEM CAI for example) are designed using physics as well. the intakes are designed in such a way with certain angles, bends, and tube size, to create a resonant pulse timed with the engine at WOT, at particular rpm ranges. this pulse helps force just a small amount more air into the combustion chamber, and further helps the mixture swirl in the chamber. this is part of where those extra hp come from.

these are intakes designed specifically for a car's intake pattern and engine design. (assuming you dont get a knock off). that's why an intake costs what it does. because there is research that goes into designing the pipe into the right shape and size to work with the engine and that resonant pulse.

some guy slapping on a tube from some material he had lying around isn't gonna do that. in fact, it would probably hurt performance.

 
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I really think that every application is different for every car. I know that with the right intake on our cars that you will see gains, no doubt about it. The reason that I know this is from my experience in even the "feel" of the car after I put in an intake (that and the fact that my sister has a 03 ex without). Now I will not argue that there may be situations where some may lose power (obviously the case in the article), but allot of people are putting on I/h/e and sometimes a piggyback ecu. Then they dyno their cars and don't get the power that they think they should. Instantly the intake is blamed for the loss in power when in reality it is most likley the piggyback ecu not tuned properly. The only dynos that I have yet to see that compares stock with just a intake is on a manufactures website and in mags (I think modified has articles every issue) the websites claim 4-5hp (obviously they are not going to show a loss in power). However the mag gains seem to be consistent with the manufacture and they have no bias, in fact the most common loss of hp that I have seen in the mag is from messing with the computer.

I really question the motives to attempt to prove that a 7th gen civic is not modable. When there is tons of data out there and race results that proves it is.

 
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Sorry it is Import Tunner that features the articals every month. I have one with a 7thgen Si and one with a 96 civic Cx (along with many more). I will go over the civic CX in terms of hp and TQ.

baseline: 96.1hp 97.2TQ
V2 intake: 103 hp 103.6TQ
Skunk 2 cam gear: 102.3hp 107tq
Skunk 2 exhaust: 106 hp 107.7tq

I would expect to see results very similar with a 7th gen possibly even greater increases due to Vtec being present, .10L more, and slightly more baseline hp. If you look through the mag you can see that most cars show similar increases as a function of base line hp.

BTW the month if you want to see for yourself is (can't find one just says display until dec 2004)

 
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Very interesting... He said he tested it with a stopwatch... Honestly how accurate can this be?

 
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yeah it makes sense but it's a flawed test.

 
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Here is a website to Import tuner magazine where they have a 2001 Civic Ex and add an SPW Hayame short ram intake on a stock engine and gain 4.2 HP and 2.9 Lbs torque.
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0108it_pphondaex/

 
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I really think that I/H/E could be said to give 10% gains + or - 2%. It seems the same on most cars.

 
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AGREED!

 
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this is bunch of CAIs do help performance. It acts as the "inhale", but for it to be effective, you just need the "exhale" part of it to suppliment it (headers, catback).

 
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Very very good point. S2000man says it all

 
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It all depends on application.
For my car, a CAI was not only worthless, but in the end, it got me hydrolocked.

For my old DSM, an intake helped a bit... and I'm sure it's the same for a d-series.


There are several turbocharger applications for my current VW that use the stock airbox.

 
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yeah but hydrolocking wouldn't really directly be the CAI's fault.

you have to know how to avoid the risk, which even then, is extremely low.

 
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I've never seen a dyno like this that hasn't been performed by the selling company. And even in those cases they never show the torque curve (usually because it's worse than stock). Got any REAL dynos? Even a guy I know at Honda who builds engines says he keeps the stock intake because it makes more power on his civic.

An intake is exactly just a tube with a filter on it. There's nothing special. Maybe some companies use airflow testing, but in reality it won't matter enough to show a difference. The resonant pulse timed with the engine...actually the stock intake does this, not the aftermarket one, hence the name. Actually his drainage pipe is prolly capable of more laminar flow than a real intake. And guess what...every member who has taken off the resonator has reported some kind of power loss. I even tried it on a freezing cold day and noticed a difference, so it's not the extra heat that's causing the problem, it's the fact that there's no resonator.

The research gone into aftermarket intakes? I think Honda spends a bit more time on R&D than AEM does. And honda tunes the intake to the entire car (they built the rest of it right?).

Now just for fun, has anyone actually looked at our stock intake? Look at the air path and compare it the the throttle body diameter. They're about the same, meaning that the system is already maxed out. When you add a filter on a stick, that filter is creating way too much surface area which in turn slows down air flow into the engine. There is a mid point between more air and faster flow rate. and I think stock does the best job of finding that middle ground.

 
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this was already pointed out in this thread on page 1.
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0108it_pphondaex/

import tuner did a back to back comparison, first with a stock run on the dyno, then with intake. notice how it DOES gain both hp AND torque?

also, the reason the companies generally dont point out the torque is NOT because they make less of it. it's because most people dont care. remember it's HP that sells.

that's just 1 example. mags like SCC and super street do them all the time. not to mention consumers have done them too. there are several i can remember that did their S2000's like that. baseline run, then another run after the CAI. gains were realized with the CAI.

this is something that SHOULD be common knowledge.

as for your friend who builds hondas, or whatever. maybe that's the case with his civic, but i doubt it. i'm willing to guarantee if he were to throw on an AEM CAI he'd get more torque and hp than what he's making now. if he tells you any different, i'd kinda wonder what he's thinkin

 
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Ya I remember reading that, but I wanted to see the actual dyno curve. Even you know that a peak gain does not mean a gain through the entire power band. Most of us aren't driving at 6k rpms all day so that 4hp extra means nothing.

 
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This is where you're wrong. Research and development ARE done with companies like AEM to make sure a stronger resonant pulse is created over stock. Or at best, the original resonant pulse is maintained.

As for you saying "well honda put the intake on, so why would an aftermarket be better". Because aftermarket intakes are often less restrictive, and allow for greater breathing, plus are designed with the resonant pulse. That's just common knowledge. I mean if your theory was the case, then why would any honda ever get any gains if honda made the car with the best parts they could? Because, honda DETUNES the cars from the factory. This ensures that they make the hp they want, with the a/f they want. A GREAT case in point is the RSX-S K20A2. That engine is VERY detuned from the factory. Even honda admits this. i/h/e and hondata reflash can gain 40 hp for those cars. But your theory of "honda knows what's best" would say otherwise.

You can't argue with proven dyno numbers, and proven power gains.

 
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You should realize the stock intake is NOT designed to be the best possible solution for providing the engine with breathing air. As I said, honda does R&D on the engine, but then detunes the car through ECU, intake, etc to maintain the power they want.

 
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Well ya talking about civics in this case... I've tried two intakes by name brand companies and both felt like the car lost power. I'm not really gonna argue anymore, but even if those intakes gave me more power over stock, I would rather stay stay with the stock intake because it FEELS faster when I drive. Stupid answer but that's my own preference. Not to mention gas mileage on my car. With the stock intake, I got my record hi of 38mpg with 99% highway. After intake and a few tanks later, that number went down to 32mpg with same driving conditions (same road even).

 
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Here's a quote from honda tuning on the AEM intake on an RSX. Notice how they said the powerband is BETTER not just peak power.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...1ht_rsxintake/

 
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yeah you wont get better gas mileage that's for sure.

as for the butt dyno, well we all know where that can get ya. lol

but do notice in the import tuner article regarding the 2001 civic, they mention peak numbers. but also notice at the BOTTOM of the article....
so they do mention better gains with the intake and exhaust in the mid/top end range.

 
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Okay but our civic engine isn't powerful enough to take advantage of that. The few hp it gets are peak, not constant. Again, I would love to see dyno graphs of torque and hp for our civic for any intake.

 
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well i guess while i look for a back to back comparison, first notice, as I said, they said they got improved power in the mid and top end range of rpm. NOT JUST improved peak hp.

on top of that, it's common knowledge for the most part that intakes among other parts, do increase power through the rpm range, not just peak power. the civic is no exception to this.

 
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Okay I agree intakes give more peak power. I've never heard the part about power throughout the rpm range. If anything, less restriction in the intake charge at lower rpms would cause air to move more slowly, resulting in lower torque. Why is it that company dynos never include torque or a/f readouts, and only hp? It's a marketing trick. Customer sees that an intake gives 5whp, buys it, then realizes he only gets to feel that power for 1 second before shifting. Or if it's for a daily driver, he will only feel the negative effects down low.

 
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I don't agree entirely. Check out the gains on the RSX Type S with CAI, they get more than 10WHP with a Ingen cold Air Intake and they have mutiple dynos to proove it.

Maybe the guy canoot design a proper intake which increases the velocity of the air after it hits the cone. Cold air intakes have a few bends.

 
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the problem here is nobody wants to take their car to the dyno with only an intake or a single mod. it's usually a combination of mods and thus making it harder to point out which one is giving the best gains.