Imports built better then domestics?
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Imports built better then domestics?
We can all agree that imports are generally built better then domestics... that is why they are generally more reliable. A while back a memeber here, I think zzyzx, posted this:
"WHen a car is designed, a blue print is created,
that shows the mesurement of what would be a "Perfict" car of that make. In japan
and Europe, a car coming off the assembly line is allowed to be +-3 milimeters of
the mesuring points of that Blue print. In the US the standard is +-7 milimeters.
7 milimeters may not seem like a lot, but add that up over say 3 points, and you
have just under 3 centimeters, which is about 1 inch. If you want a Visual on what
this looks like on a car, just go to a Ford Dealership, and check out a brand new
Mustang. Look at the gaps around the Trunk, and how flush the sides are with the
Height of the Quartar pannels, I guarantee that the trunk is not sitting Properly
on that car. Thats why I dont buy american, not because I dont like the styles,
but because I know how they are put together. Note: Although most of our cars are
built in the US, they are still held to the +-3mm standard
"
can someone explain this a little bit better to me? I'm doing a little paper on why its smarter to buy an import for an everyday car then buying a domestic for an everyday car and I thought I could use what I posed on top about the +/-3 mm standard.
Since I worked at a car dealership I pretty much know the ecnomical and financial reasons why imports are better cars to buy... and for this paper I also want to include why they are mechanically built better....
Also, if you know other reasons why imports are built better then domestics please elt me know.
thanx
"WHen a car is designed, a blue print is created,
that shows the mesurement of what would be a "Perfict" car of that make. In japan
and Europe, a car coming off the assembly line is allowed to be +-3 milimeters of
the mesuring points of that Blue print. In the US the standard is +-7 milimeters.
7 milimeters may not seem like a lot, but add that up over say 3 points, and you
have just under 3 centimeters, which is about 1 inch. If you want a Visual on what
this looks like on a car, just go to a Ford Dealership, and check out a brand new
Mustang. Look at the gaps around the Trunk, and how flush the sides are with the
Height of the Quartar pannels, I guarantee that the trunk is not sitting Properly
on that car. Thats why I dont buy american, not because I dont like the styles,
but because I know how they are put together. Note: Although most of our cars are
built in the US, they are still held to the +-3mm standard
"
can someone explain this a little bit better to me? I'm doing a little paper on why its smarter to buy an import for an everyday car then buying a domestic for an everyday car and I thought I could use what I posed on top about the +/-3 mm standard.
Since I worked at a car dealership I pretty much know the ecnomical and financial reasons why imports are better cars to buy... and for this paper I also want to include why they are mechanically built better....
Also, if you know other reasons why imports are built better then domestics please elt me know.
thanx
Last edited by HustleLikeM0FO; Nov 21, 2004 at 05:05 PM.
you know ever time i look a the rear of a 6 gen civic it looks like the left taillight is off center with the trunk part of the taillight just slightly and im not talking about just one or two but like 50 that iv seen i always thought that was stange
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It's exactly what it means. When parts are built the tolerances for the parts are to be kept within a certain range for "error" so to speak. Japanese cars are built with a higher quality and less tolerance, meaning the parts in general, will last longer, fit better, etc.
It's true in the aspect of what he said about a mustang for example. Ride in a mustang, and then ride in a mustang after 30,000 miles of use. It creaks, panels bang, and it just "feels" cheaper inside. Do the same on a civic and you'll notice a difference.
Not that there is or isn't anything wrong with the philosophy that american car manufacturers use, it's simply a different way of looking at things.
The japanese/imports are a bit more expensive due to the fact that the parts are generally of slightly higher quality/ ie, less tolerance, less error. They feel that the extra cost can be passed to the consumer and that the extra cost they eat is worth the service to the customer.
The american manufacturers, specifically ford, build a part to "fail" so to speak. If it saves them money here or there, they pass those savings onto the consumer with a less expensive sticker price. However, this means the tolerances are greater, more chance for error, less quality. The further a part is from 'perfect' according to the computer blue print, so to speak, the greater/earlier it's chance of failure. Ford, for example though, feels it is cheaper and more helpful to pass on initial savings to a customer by simply fixing a bad part within the first 36,000 miles of the car's life. It's simply 2 different views on car manufacturing.
When it comes to the average consumer purchasing an automobile, there is much truth to the phrase "you get what you pay for"
It's true in the aspect of what he said about a mustang for example. Ride in a mustang, and then ride in a mustang after 30,000 miles of use. It creaks, panels bang, and it just "feels" cheaper inside. Do the same on a civic and you'll notice a difference.
Not that there is or isn't anything wrong with the philosophy that american car manufacturers use, it's simply a different way of looking at things.
The japanese/imports are a bit more expensive due to the fact that the parts are generally of slightly higher quality/ ie, less tolerance, less error. They feel that the extra cost can be passed to the consumer and that the extra cost they eat is worth the service to the customer.
The american manufacturers, specifically ford, build a part to "fail" so to speak. If it saves them money here or there, they pass those savings onto the consumer with a less expensive sticker price. However, this means the tolerances are greater, more chance for error, less quality. The further a part is from 'perfect' according to the computer blue print, so to speak, the greater/earlier it's chance of failure. Ford, for example though, feels it is cheaper and more helpful to pass on initial savings to a customer by simply fixing a bad part within the first 36,000 miles of the car's life. It's simply 2 different views on car manufacturing.
When it comes to the average consumer purchasing an automobile, there is much truth to the phrase "you get what you pay for"
Last edited by S2000man01; Nov 21, 2004 at 05:50 PM.
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I know you are looking for specific information, the only advice I can give you on your paper is go to the local Barnes and Noble book store. Take a seat next to the magazine racks right infront of the automotive section. Read through every review of every magazine on as many cars as you can stand. Pay particualr attention to the cars reviewed under fit and finish of a vehicle and stack up the reviews of american made cars versus imports. Time and time again, most of these magazines printed in America, favor the imports for their build qualities and remind domestic car companies that they are losing in this department and should pay more attention to details.
Originally Posted by S2000man01
It's exactly what it means. When parts are built the tolerances for the parts are to be kept within a certain range for "error" so to speak. Japanese cars are built with a higher quality and less tolerance, meaning the parts in general, will last longer, fit better, etc.
It's true in the aspect of what he said about a mustang for example. Ride in a mustang, and then ride in a mustang after 30,000 miles of use. It creaks, panels bang, and it just "feels" cheaper inside. Do the same on a civic and you'll notice a difference.
Not that there is or isn't anything wrong with the philosophy that american car manufacturers use, it's simply a different way of looking at things.
The japanese/imports are a bit more expensive due to the fact that the parts are generally of slightly higher quality/ ie, less tolerance, less error. They feel that the extra cost can be passed to the consumer and that the extra cost they eat is worth the service to the customer.
The american manufacturers, specifically ford, build a part to "fail" so to speak. If it saves them money here or there, they pass those savings onto the consumer with a less expensive sticker price. However, this means the tolerances are greater, more chance for error, less quality. The further a part is from 'perfect' according to the computer blue print, so to speak, the greater/earlier it's chance of failure. Ford, for example though, feels it is cheaper and more helpful to pass on initial savings to a customer by simply fixing a bad part within the first 36,000 miles of the car's life. It's simply 2 different views on car manufacturing.
When it comes to the average consumer purchasing an automobile, there is much truth to the phrase "you get what you pay for"
It's true in the aspect of what he said about a mustang for example. Ride in a mustang, and then ride in a mustang after 30,000 miles of use. It creaks, panels bang, and it just "feels" cheaper inside. Do the same on a civic and you'll notice a difference.
Not that there is or isn't anything wrong with the philosophy that american car manufacturers use, it's simply a different way of looking at things.
The japanese/imports are a bit more expensive due to the fact that the parts are generally of slightly higher quality/ ie, less tolerance, less error. They feel that the extra cost can be passed to the consumer and that the extra cost they eat is worth the service to the customer.
The american manufacturers, specifically ford, build a part to "fail" so to speak. If it saves them money here or there, they pass those savings onto the consumer with a less expensive sticker price. However, this means the tolerances are greater, more chance for error, less quality. The further a part is from 'perfect' according to the computer blue print, so to speak, the greater/earlier it's chance of failure. Ford, for example though, feels it is cheaper and more helpful to pass on initial savings to a customer by simply fixing a bad part within the first 36,000 miles of the car's life. It's simply 2 different views on car manufacturing.
When it comes to the average consumer purchasing an automobile, there is much truth to the phrase "you get what you pay for"
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Rep Power: 399 there are always exceptions to the rule. a domestic car that simply may have been built by chance very close to "perfect" specs according to the model. and an import whose parts simply met the very minimal requirements of tolerances.
but in general, your case is not the case. you just got luck of the draw.
but in general, your case is not the case. you just got luck of the draw.
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
It's exactly what it means. When parts are built the tolerances for the parts are to be kept within a certain range for "error" so to speak. Japanese cars are built with a higher quality and less tolerance, meaning the parts in general, will last longer, fit better, etc.
It's true in the aspect of what he said about a mustang for example. Ride in a mustang, and then ride in a mustang after 30,000 miles of use. It creaks, panels bang, and it just "feels" cheaper inside. Do the same on a civic and you'll notice a difference.
Not that there is or isn't anything wrong with the philosophy that american car manufacturers use, it's simply a different way of looking at things.
The japanese/imports are a bit more expensive due to the fact that the parts are generally of slightly higher quality/ ie, less tolerance, less error. They feel that the extra cost can be passed to the consumer and that the extra cost they eat is worth the service to the customer.
The american manufacturers, specifically ford, build a part to "fail" so to speak. If it saves them money here or there, they pass those savings onto the consumer with a less expensive sticker price. However, this means the tolerances are greater, more chance for error, less quality. The further a part is from 'perfect' according to the computer blue print, so to speak, the greater/earlier it's chance of failure. Ford, for example though, feels it is cheaper and more helpful to pass on initial savings to a customer by simply fixing a bad part within the first 36,000 miles of the car's life. It's simply 2 different views on car manufacturing.
When it comes to the average consumer purchasing an automobile, there is much truth to the phrase "you get what you pay for"
It's true in the aspect of what he said about a mustang for example. Ride in a mustang, and then ride in a mustang after 30,000 miles of use. It creaks, panels bang, and it just "feels" cheaper inside. Do the same on a civic and you'll notice a difference.
Not that there is or isn't anything wrong with the philosophy that american car manufacturers use, it's simply a different way of looking at things.
The japanese/imports are a bit more expensive due to the fact that the parts are generally of slightly higher quality/ ie, less tolerance, less error. They feel that the extra cost can be passed to the consumer and that the extra cost they eat is worth the service to the customer.
The american manufacturers, specifically ford, build a part to "fail" so to speak. If it saves them money here or there, they pass those savings onto the consumer with a less expensive sticker price. However, this means the tolerances are greater, more chance for error, less quality. The further a part is from 'perfect' according to the computer blue print, so to speak, the greater/earlier it's chance of failure. Ford, for example though, feels it is cheaper and more helpful to pass on initial savings to a customer by simply fixing a bad part within the first 36,000 miles of the car's life. It's simply 2 different views on car manufacturing.
When it comes to the average consumer purchasing an automobile, there is much truth to the phrase "you get what you pay for"
Nothing works better than a Chris except a Honda.
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Rep Power: 346 Besides the tolerence, as mentioned, there is also the precision in measurements themselves.
American measurements aren't as precise as the Metric system, which is very precise compared to a 16th of an inch or a 32th of an inch. That doesn't really matter much now though because a lot of systems are calibrated through computers, but that made huge differences years ago.
Another good thing is freshness. Honda/Toyota/Nissan have been fairly consistent with new models and refreshening of models. GM's brands have been selling the same small cars on the same platforms for a while. Same thing with Ford's Mustang, which has also been fairly underpowered.
The products actually used on the cars, are fairly expensive to import, so only the best products are sent across an ocean here, while American companies use local resourses, already based here so they don't have as strict quality control.
But that's all old and in the past. American carmakers have seen what their mistakes were and are slowly but surely correcting them. If they don't they'll lose sale and lose ground. Toyota is slowly becoming the number 1 car maker internatinally...
American measurements aren't as precise as the Metric system, which is very precise compared to a 16th of an inch or a 32th of an inch. That doesn't really matter much now though because a lot of systems are calibrated through computers, but that made huge differences years ago.
Another good thing is freshness. Honda/Toyota/Nissan have been fairly consistent with new models and refreshening of models. GM's brands have been selling the same small cars on the same platforms for a while. Same thing with Ford's Mustang, which has also been fairly underpowered.
The products actually used on the cars, are fairly expensive to import, so only the best products are sent across an ocean here, while American companies use local resourses, already based here so they don't have as strict quality control.
But that's all old and in the past. American carmakers have seen what their mistakes were and are slowly but surely correcting them. If they don't they'll lose sale and lose ground. Toyota is slowly becoming the number 1 car maker internatinally...
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Originally Posted by CivicsRdBest
Besides the tolerence, as mentioned, there is also the precision in measurements themselves.
American measurements aren't as precise as the Metric system, which is very precise compared to a 16th of an inch or a 32th of an inch. That doesn't really matter much now though because a lot of systems are calibrated through computers, but that made huge differences years ago.
Another good thing is freshness. Honda/Toyota/Nissan have been fairly consistent with new models and refreshening of models. GM's brands have been selling the same small cars on the same platforms for a while. Same thing with Ford's Mustang, which has also been fairly underpowered.
The products actually used on the cars, are fairly expensive to import, so only the best products are sent across an ocean here, while American companies use local resourses, already based here so they don't have as strict quality control.
But that's all old and in the past. American carmakers have seen what their mistakes were and are slowly but surely correcting them. If they don't they'll lose sale and lose ground. Toyota is slowly becoming the number 1 car maker internatinally...
American measurements aren't as precise as the Metric system, which is very precise compared to a 16th of an inch or a 32th of an inch. That doesn't really matter much now though because a lot of systems are calibrated through computers, but that made huge differences years ago.
Another good thing is freshness. Honda/Toyota/Nissan have been fairly consistent with new models and refreshening of models. GM's brands have been selling the same small cars on the same platforms for a while. Same thing with Ford's Mustang, which has also been fairly underpowered.
The products actually used on the cars, are fairly expensive to import, so only the best products are sent across an ocean here, while American companies use local resourses, already based here so they don't have as strict quality control.
But that's all old and in the past. American carmakers have seen what their mistakes were and are slowly but surely correcting them. If they don't they'll lose sale and lose ground. Toyota is slowly becoming the number 1 car maker internatinally...
Nothing works better than a Chris except a Honda.
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Rep Power: 346 No. Like I said, that was old. I used to know that. Now, with all the newer stuff, its all just marketing.
The accuracy and precision stuff, you can find in any generic Physics book.
The freshness thing, I don't know, I guess you could use Edmunds.com to show that the compact cars haven't changed much on the American's sides while they always change after a certain cycle on Import sides. (You could use the editor's review to show the different changes over the last decade).
I don't know, I'm just throwing out ideas to help. Well, whatever. Good luck! I want to write a paper on cars... damn, I could go on for days... just typing and searching for info...
The accuracy and precision stuff, you can find in any generic Physics book.
The freshness thing, I don't know, I guess you could use Edmunds.com to show that the compact cars haven't changed much on the American's sides while they always change after a certain cycle on Import sides. (You could use the editor's review to show the different changes over the last decade).
I don't know, I'm just throwing out ideas to help. Well, whatever. Good luck! I want to write a paper on cars... damn, I could go on for days... just typing and searching for info...
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Originally Posted by HustleLikeM0FO
can you get some sources to back this up with or is it just an opinion?
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Rep Power: 399 Many of the answers you are looking for are in the history of a man named Edwards Deming.
In the 50's W. Edwards Deming introduced several new ideas to american automotive manufacturers about quality control, but was shunned because they didn't agree with the principle and that the cost was not efficient. So he took his ideas to japan, where they were implemented and thus a new era of quality control began. So really we have an american to thank for the quality of imports. American auto manufacturers because of years of hardened stance on their "cost efficient" yet "not so quality" methods are slow even today to adapt to these methods.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1293a.asp
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=1299&id=74
In the 50's W. Edwards Deming introduced several new ideas to american automotive manufacturers about quality control, but was shunned because they didn't agree with the principle and that the cost was not efficient. So he took his ideas to japan, where they were implemented and thus a new era of quality control began. So really we have an american to thank for the quality of imports. American auto manufacturers because of years of hardened stance on their "cost efficient" yet "not so quality" methods are slow even today to adapt to these methods.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1293a.asp
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=1299&id=74
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
Many of the answers you are looking for are in the history of a man named Edwards Deming.
In the 50's W. Edwards Deming introduced several new ideas to american automotive manufacturers about quality control, but was shunned because they didn't agree with the principle and that the cost was not efficient. So he took his ideas to japan, where they were implemented and thus a new era of quality control began. So really we have an american to thank for the quality of imports. American auto manufacturers because of years of hardened stance on their "cost efficient" yet "not so quality" methods are slow even today to adapt to these methods.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1293a.asp
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=1299&id=74
In the 50's W. Edwards Deming introduced several new ideas to american automotive manufacturers about quality control, but was shunned because they didn't agree with the principle and that the cost was not efficient. So he took his ideas to japan, where they were implemented and thus a new era of quality control began. So really we have an american to thank for the quality of imports. American auto manufacturers because of years of hardened stance on their "cost efficient" yet "not so quality" methods are slow even today to adapt to these methods.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1293a.asp
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=1299&id=74
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I wouldnt say that the Honda Civic feels like quality . It doesent feel any diffrent than a Ford, which I think makes a good product . Foreighn cars is some ways are superior than american cars and some ways american cars are superior than foreighn cars . Personally , even though I own a Honda , it will be my last one, I just cant see that a big diffrence of quality and I have owned all domestics before my Honda .
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Rep Power: 399 not sure where you are getting your feeling from? maybe you have a not so great civic. just about everyone i've met can tell a big difference when they are IN a honda over a ford.
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Rep Power: 0 I think most people read a lot of magazines and dont really know what quality is . Motor Trend could put a turd on wheels and say its the best car in the world and a lot of people would agree . I just dont see the diffrence , In fact there is little if any diffrence now days in cars . Bottom line you get what you pay for .
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Rep Power: 0 In terms of build quality and materials used I would say there is definitely a difference. As an example of what I mean, sit in and look at a Cavalier and then sit in and look at Civic and you will easily see what I mean. The cheap plastics, the poorly fitting and easily damaged interior pieces, the gaps between body panels, etc. of a Cavalier demonstrate what I'm talking about when compared to a Civic.
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