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Hey, both my civic's have SOHC AND 16 valves. Very few 4 banger hondas have less than 16 valves. SO what the advantage to DOHC? Try RPM's. What's the redline on a 99-00 civic Si, about 8,000, my '03 EX at 7,200. The DOHC simple have a larger power range than the SOHC.

As for the Accord verse the Camary, I've always thought Toyota made a better V6 than Honda (expecially after the whole oil leak thing in the V6's Honda had). Now as I just stated, a DOHC engine can go to higher RPM's than a SOHC (in general anyway). However, for a V style engine, high RPM is generally not desired becasue most of the power From a V style engine is in the form of torque, and you normally don't make torque at high RPM's (on a N/A engine anyway). Thus the reason for a taller final drive and all that stuff on a V style engine. So unless have some exotic car like a ZR-1 vette or Ferrari, a DOHC V6 or V8 or V whatever is not going to give you that much more, a little yes, but not enough that I would go boosting about it.

That said, I still would take a toyta V6 over a Honda V6 and I would still take a Honda I4 over a toyta I4 anyday, but that's just me. Keep in mind most of the article was on 4 cylinder cars.

 
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I actuall disagree with that. In a DOHC car, when you shift at say 8,000 RPMs, you go to aorund 5500-6000, still in the VTEC range adn probably around 95 hp or so. Now shift in a SOHC car at around 7000 (assuming it also has VTEC) and you end up around 4500-5000 RPM, probably about 85 hp or so. If oyu really don't believe me, just look at some of the stock dynos and see the hp drop between the redline and the shift point (around 2500-3000 RPMs before redline). So yes, 1hp=1hp, but all engines are not created equal.

 
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In case you haven't realized it yet, SOHC VTEC is for fuel economy, not performance.

Why don't you start ragging on the Z06 for being a pushrod V8? That's got to be "even worse" than SOHC, right? Never mind the end result, because the engineering choices along the way are more important, right?

B-, K-, F-, and C-series engines are all DOHC. That's covers a heck of a lot more cars than "only the Prelude and S2000", and, yes, many of the 05 models that you have listed as SOHC. Excuse Honda for providing us with options.

What happened to the other half of my message? Couldn't come up with a moronic response to that portion of it?

 
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So the torque curve on the Camry is more impressive than the torque curve on the Accord? Wasn't my whole point that there are factors other than the peak horsepower number affecting acceleration, and that one horsepower in a Toyota engine is exactly equal to one horsepower in a Honda engine?

Congratulations on missing the point entirely and getting all huffy, defensive, and insulting, though. That takes special skill.

 
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Well, that comes down to torque curve differences and maximum engine speed, not SOHC vs DOHC. It's entirely possible to build a pair of engines, one SOHC and one DOHC, that have exactly the same torque curve.

DOHC generally means more potential, but not all DOHC engines are automatically better than all SOHC engines.

 
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Right. What you tried to say was that 1hp in a Toyota was "more" than 1hp in a Honda because the two have the same 0-60mph time.


You are -

 
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Guys stop arguing over this. It's about how great the NA Honda motor is. You guys turned this into a flame fest. Some info here is correct, but a lot isn't. So before some newb with no clue learns the wrong info, let's tone this down and start bragging about Hondas again. That's why most of us are on the site.

 
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Toyota builds a better V6 than Honda? Do we even need to bring up the word "sludge"?

 
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^^ yes i'm still saying that its more efficient in terms of getting the power to the wheel... most of the power gets lost because of several reasons. You just took my point and repeated it.
Sorry for hurting your feelings guys. You guys think of Hondas as if they're lambo's or ferraris, and that they are invinsible. i got 10 ppl arguing with me over what I meant by efficient.

You hear ppl saying that cams don't matter. Got an 02 camry being compared with an 05 accord. You got ppl comparing SUVs with sedans. You got professor watermelonman going on about torque curves. Seems like thats the only work he knows. And then you got some ppl saying "its only 15hp". If its only 15hp, why do ppl mod their cars with CAIs, catbacks and headers? Because it adds that little hp which makes a difference.

You guys are getting heart-broken over your hondas for no reason. I got a honda too. And I love it. But I'm not going to sit here and defend honda just because I drive one, because there are better cars out there.

 
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I agree you with you man.. some ppl are so bias and defensive about hondas. I'm part of several forums but i've never seen so many close-minded people. No wonder ppl who know so much about cars don't participate in discussions because you got little kids treating Honda as their religion, and doing whatever it takes to make themselves feel better.

 
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Um, you guys, torque curve makes a huge difference.

Both of these engines make 130hp. Which one do you think would be faster in a race?



Or



According to some of you they would be the same in a race because they both make 130hp, but they would not. Granted, the second one is an extreme example, but the first engine would be faster in a race because it makes more power longer.

 
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suprinsingly enough. no one on here talked about the torque differences enough. 15ft/lbs is a quite a difference. Also, the way the cars are dynoed when done from the manufacturer are always different than what you get a crank dyno. different engines of the same engine model make different power but close to it. I hope some of you didn't actually think that on a crank dyno, the hp comes out nicely to 240 or 210. another thing ppl forget to mention, that it might be in Toyota's favor to understate their hp like they do in almost all their other cars. imo, i person test drving a supposedly 240 accord and a 210hp camry is going to try compare the two. most people are very inefficent at comparing hp but are really good with torque on the butt dyno.

honda/toyota don't make the best engines. sorry but there is better out there.

 
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i'm gonna look for stock dyno results for both cars.

 
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I agree, but not in the same price region as a Honda or Toyota, But then agian some people think that the Taurus is the best thing out there. I personally would much rather have a nice 330is BWM than my Honda, but that's not in my price range.

 
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I can't believe this is still going on. Most of these posts make no sense. Many of you are so inarticulate that you wouldn't be able to argue that the sky is blue even if your life depended on it. Please shut up. I'm talking to you kasimm. You started this. Now end it.

 
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Yeah, I know that, infact I've done that (or close to it). But overall speaking, a DOHC setup is going to be able to breath at a lot higher RPM becasue it has VTEC on the both the intake and exaughst where as a SOHC only has VTEC on the intake. So generally speaking, not bored out turbo'd or whatever else, just more or less stock, a DOHC will make more power.

And yes alot has do with torque, but torque is not everything. Don't believe me? Take a look at the number for an Integra Type-R verse a GSR, or even a non-Vtec one. All three versions have about the same torque, the non VTEC is about 10 less than the GSR and GSR is about 2 less (depending on the year you pick) than the Type-R i think. Which one do you think is faster? You can't say 40 hp won't make a difference.

Now for my last .02 cents. There are is no one way to compare two cars, you can analysize all the charts you want, spit all the numbers out you want, and and claim all the 1/4 mile times you want. But what is important to you I may not care about. My point is, the toyota Camary maybe 0.2 seconds faster in 1/4 mile, but what about handling? I hate the way the Camary rides, seems to have very little imput to me, I much prefer the way an Accord handles. At the same time I think Toyota has a better V6 than Honda, but that doesn't overcome the way it rides (for me). So in the end it's all about personal preferance and what you like, not some guy named Jrfish007 thinks.

 
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I think this is the only group of people in the world that could possibly care about such an insignifcant difference between a Camry and an Accord. If you want to compare performance numbers in such great detail, at least compare an RX8 to an S2000, or an NSX to a Supra, or something actually worth arguing over. Especially when both cars are the same speed to 60, according to a poster on here. Americans always buy the prettier one anyway, no one cares.

 
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too much read

 
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thats true but some of us have to start looking on to family cars pretty soon

this thread is funny

 
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Aren't all civic Ex's made after 00' made stock with DOHC?? If I'm right, you are retarded, sir. In fact the EX i was looking at instead of my final choice, the LX had a V-TEC DOHC.

I think the fact that most people on this thread are second guessing you is reason to back out.

 
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No civic EX is DOHC Stock unless the canada version is but i don't think so. No civic has ever came with DOHC only the SI. And don't call anyone retarded if you don't even know that your right

 
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As much as I want this to stop, you are completely wrong. If it's an EX and you're talking 00 and up, it's SOHC; no ifs ands or buts. The 00 Si is DOHC, B16 motor. Hmm, last time I checked I don't recall seing any new DOHC D-series motor out there...

Sorry to flame, but you have no right to call anyone retarded "bro"... On top of that, you're incorrect anyway...

 
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That would be tight D17a4 DOHC w00t w00t but willnever happen

 
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wow this thread is doing good.....good debate we got going here...interesting

 
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Well, I was talking more about the whole curve than the peak number. Horsepower can be derived entirely from the torque curve; it's just force over time.

 
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I said that there are a lot of factors other than peak horsepower affecting a car's acceleration and that the torque curve was one of them. I don't see how you go from that to claiming torque curves are the only thing I understand.

Anyway, you have people arguing with you because you are saying things that are stupid and wrong. If you want to argue that Toyota builds a better engine because of its overall power output, that's fine. If you want to argue that Toyota builds a better engine because of how much fuel it consumes to produce a certain amount of power, or because of how many miles it can run without maintenance, that's fine too. However, you're arguing that Toyota builds a better engine because the horsepower number is lower on a car that runs the same 0-60mph time as a Honda. That's not even close to being a cohesive or consistent argument. There's no direct correlation.

You keep talking about how people are biased and being defensive about their Honda cars, but that's not what's happening at all. You're making bogus claims and people called you on them.

 
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This is ridiculous... Mod, kill this thread.

 
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You know whats funny about this post? That V6 Accord and possibly the Camry thats not worth arguing over will out run the RX8 and give an S2000 a run for its money in a straight line. Don't believe me? Check out accordtuner.com (I think thats the site) Those V6 Accords are running low 14s stock, which is where the RX8 and S2000 usually are at. I agree that MOST Americans will always buy the prettier and most shiney vehicle.

 
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its funny how this thread turned around from its topic.....
LMAO

 
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hehe what was the original point of this thread??