What Interal Parts to go with?
What Interal Parts to go with?
I want to build a motor, but just an all motor no nitious but turbo down the road whats the best parts for it? Whats the best compression? Any help and i dont want a k- series swap so dont even say it and if i wanted a k2o i would of bought a RSX
Thanks
Thanks
Last edited by Civicman1988; Jan 3, 2006 at 07:04 PM.
Originally Posted by Civicman1988
you can get more then 160 hp out of an all motor civic?
I have never heard of the d17 making more than 120-130whp N/A. The SOHC makes it very hard to get above 160whp, so much that it would be unreasonable to do so unless you just HAVE TO try. You would have to have very high compression and a cam that would make you slow as hell unless you were always reving the **** out of your car. It is by no means worth it.
I think somebody with the older civics has gotten up to the 160 mark with SOHC, but there was a lot of work put into it.
Basically if you want power, you gotta swap, turbo or spray.
I think somebody with the older civics has gotten up to the 160 mark with SOHC, but there was a lot of work put into it.
Basically if you want power, you gotta swap, turbo or spray.
Last edited by jackburton; Jan 3, 2006 at 07:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by jackburton
I have never heard of the d17 making more than 120-130whp N/A. The SOHC makes it very hard to get above 160whp, so much that it would be unreasonable to do so unless you just got to try. You would have to have such high compression and a cam that would make you slow as hell unless you were always reving the **** out of your car.
I think somebody with the older civics has gotten up to the 160 mark with SOHC, but there was a lot of work put into it.
Basically if you want power, you gotta swap, turbo or spray.
I think somebody with the older civics has gotten up to the 160 mark with SOHC, but there was a lot of work put into it.
Basically if you want power, you gotta swap, turbo or spray.
When the aem came out, just with tuning alone, they hit 120-130 whp. With a good cam, raised compression, headwork, good engine management and good bolt ons, I'd say that over 200 would be possible. It has alot to do with the head and increasing the volumetric efficiency, not just compression ratio.
this migght help you with your internal build up! http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=174045
Yeah if you do build your motor its going to be expensive and the only way to go with engine management would be the Aem Ems. If your gonna build up the motor so much get all the parts and then save up for the labor. good luck
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Rep Power: 0 It does cost quite a bit to build hp out of a small n/a motor. I recently did a old skool datsun hybrid and spent around 4g's to get maybe 160 hp and about 200tq. That is out of a 2.2 bored 1 mil and a 2.0L head. But I say try to find the hidden hp tricks for these motors cause they exsist in all motors some where. I read an article in a mag that a dude was building a Honda insite drag car using a sohc out of an accord just for the fact they where cheaper and more availible.
Originally Posted by jackburton
really?
It is hard to believe from the d17.
It is hard to believe from the d17.
Originally Posted by jackburton
Why not just boost? Or Swap? You really love the d17 that much?
Last edited by familycar; Jan 4, 2006 at 01:18 PM.
Originally Posted by familycar
why go boost. its a prefference. you can pull the same power out of a n/a build for the same amount of money. i posted the aprx cost to do the build. i came up with about $2920 in parts including the headwork to make about 140-160whp. with the bottom end replaced i think that 180-200 is easily attainable. the 140-160 shouldnt cost more than $3200. which is about the same price as a turbo kit still less than dezods kit and will make the same power. but you dont have to worry about dirvability issues because of an aftermarket turbo system possibly failing. see to make much more than that with boost you will also need to do a f/i build consisting of a different cam, valves, springs, retainers, rods, pistons, rings, block guard, and maybe even sleves. so in order to make more power with boost than you can n/a you would need to spend a lot more money. same parts you would be replacing with the n/a build just made for high boost pressure. now a swap is a whole other story. it costs about $6k to do a swap correctly people say it costs less but most have spent just about that if not more. now if you plan to spend that on a n/a d17 then yes a swap would be more ideal because you still have room to build the motor but then your looking at like $10k+ easy. most dont want to spend that much. for a full build on this motor with AEM EMS it shouldnt cost more than about $4k to make the 180-200whp. that is still less than the dezod full on kit that makes the same amount of power. its not about love at all. its about common sense to me. it will cost me less in the long run to do this my way than the average joe will spend on a dezod kit or even a tsi extreme kit. and the hp will be very comparable.
You are right why waste my money on a turbo kit? I bought a civic for a D17 not to swap it out for a K20 if i wanted a K20 i would of bought an rsx? So i am going all motor tell me whta parts you went with family guy besides the cam, springs and valves i have crower? What compression should i go with i want at least 200 hp and more then 200 in torque so help me out familycar?
yes i had a 88crx that i built and also several vw's. also helped build a focus and a mitsu gsx. so yes i have plenty of experience in building motors be it n/a or f/i. my father is also a test mechanic for a company that build huge refridgeration units. if you know anything about refridgeration its all about compressing air. the units he builds and works on are huge turbine units that compress liquid oxygen and liguid nitrogen. his company actually built a turbine that does not reply on oil or berrings to spool the turbine wheel. it floats on air and is tuned with harmonics. he has worked there for about 20+ years and i have learned a lot about turbos and turbine units because of that alone not to mention the build i have done. i also built a turbo kit for my s10 using a t3/t4 50 trim that puts out about 200+hp on a 2.2l 4cyl. i have had a love for cars as long as i remember and actaully had to rebuild a motor in order to have a car to drive when i turned 16. but it was a 71 vw bus. i built about 3 motors total for that thing before i finally got rid of it and then built a bug then built my crx. it was fun but it was not the si model and i didnt yeild the power i wanted because funds were too limited at that time.
Originally Posted by Civicman1988
You are right why waste my money on a turbo kit? I bought a civic for a D17 not to swap it out for a K20 if i wanted a K20 i would of bought an rsx? So i am going all motor tell me whta parts you went with family guy besides the cam, springs and valves i have crower? What compression should i go with i want at least 200 hp and more then 200 in torque so help me out familycar?
Originally Posted by familycar
ill pm you some info in a bit. 200trq is going to be hard to produce. as you know honda can produce hp but trq is limited.
As much torque as i can get is good enough for me?
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Rep Power: 0 Tq is limited by engine size. This is the only advantage to bigger sizes.(imo). You usually will not see more hp then tq when spinning higher rpms. The max rpm on my hybrid 4cyl is 5800(cam profile limited). As with any engine there are certain things you can do to yeild the most bang for your buck mine was the exhaust ports to be reshaped and ported alot, and larger valves. The d series will have its own little tricks that should help. I would say either talk to family car or go to a engine builder and talk to them to see if they can help. Some times just going and talking to a builder gets you closer to what you are looking for.
Originally Posted by cg95660
Tq is limited by engine size. This is the only advantage to bigger sizes.(imo). You usually will not see more hp then tq when spinning higher rpms. The max rpm on my hybrid 4cyl is 5800(cam profile limited). As with any engine there are certain things you can do to yeild the most bang for your buck mine was the exhaust ports to be reshaped and ported alot, and larger valves. The d series will have its own little tricks that should help. I would say either talk to family car or go to a engine builder and talk to them to see if they can help. Some times just going and talking to a builder gets you closer to what you are looking for.
Right now i am porting my exhaust valves and i am taking my time and getting it realy close to the gasket and i am reshaping the inside the autoshop tacher is really good with this stuff and i asked him what he thinks and he told em to port my head like i am doing and go with a piston that is 11.5 so probaly going to do that? Does anything i should do my intake side? Should I get a bigger throttle body?
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Originally Posted by Civicman1988
Right now i am porting my exhaust valves and i am taking my time and getting it realy close to the gasket and i am reshaping the inside the autoshop tacher is really good with this stuff and i asked him what he thinks and he told em to port my head like i am doing and go with a piston that is 11.5 so probaly going to do that? Does anything i should do my intake side? Should I get a bigger throttle body?
I really do not know I have never built a honda motor. I do know you can go to big on porting and ruin the port velocity or the speed in which the air flows. Some builders say to port it big and others say leave it small and just touch it up. Again its all up to what people have been doing with this motor. The work on my hybrid I found a guy who's dad made it into books and mags in the 80's-90's for his work on datsun engines. So he knew and showed me what I needed to get the most out of my motor. To give an idea stock datsun carbs are around 190cfm I now have a weber that should be real close to 500+cfm. It follows the same idea more air in more out. Just make sure you know what you want before tearing into it too much just for the fact that some lessons are learned the hard way and the hard way costs money!
i would not port the intake side too mauch because you can cause a loss in velocity, a mild port and do not polish the intake you want it some what ruff for better fuel atomization. and yes a 11:5 compression ratio is going to be a good goal. you will need to increase the rod strength like with the maxi lite rods and a nice dished piston like cp or crower or JE to allow you to run the higher compression with out interfearing with the valve train. i believe the cp has the 11:1 piston but i dont know about the 11.5:1. realistically it would create more power to bore out the cylinders and use a larger diameter piston as well instead of using the stock bore with the cp piston. the maxlite rods(crower) should be sufficient for any n/a build
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Rep Power: 608 I have never seen anyone make over 200whp on a SOHC all motor streetable car. There was a thread on HT a while back with everyone posting their numbers and i believe the highest was in the 190's.
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Originally Posted by civic01vtec
I have never seen anyone make over 200whp on a SOHC all motor streetable car. There was a thread on HT a while back with everyone posting their numbers and i believe the highest was in the 190's.
