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was it this guy?
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...ghlight=turkey

 
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no lol, I'll find the thread. That guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hope everything turned out ok for him

 
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Need to correct you on few things here.
Yes you are correct, no need to rev hell out of the engine to ge it going fast. Some engines will rev higer then others.
In case of D vs K.
K rev easier because it is "undersquare engine" - bore dimention is larger then stroke. These engines are very good in making top end power.
So when engine is revved up the pistion speed is lower then in "oversquare engine" (D17). Lower piston speed means less vibrations, so less chance of damage safer at high rpms
D17 is "oversquare engine", bore is smaller then stroke. These engines are better suited for low-mid power and tq.
At any given point d17 piston speed will move faster from dead center to dead center compare to K. So D produces more vibrations, so it has increased chances of "blowing up" if rev past factory redline.
If properly prepared - d17 - with ballanced: crank shafts, pistons, rods, valves, with stiffer valve springs and ported head - d17 will become very ballanced can rev very well beyond factory redline and it will produce good #'s. Very expencive and not very common route.

.....Also, refering to the dyno that you postel link for....
I'm thinking that all of you guys, already know that acceleration is very dependant on power, more hp = faster acceleration.
Take a look at the graph. If you shift to next gear at 6200 rpm, highest hp (follow blue line), then you RPM will drop to about 5000 where engine produses 100whp, so you will accelerate from 100 whp (blue) and up.
If you will shift at 6800 rpm, with next gear you will strat accelerationg at 5600 rpms witch is about 110 whp (blue) - you started off with 10 more whp meaning you will accelerate faster. So it does pay off to go to readline in d17.

Manufacurers set engine speed to specific limits to reach alternatives beween: good fuel economy, pollution, noise, flexibility..... engine performs well, but with sacrifices to some things.

Look for yourself guys! It should be good info fo some one talking about d vs. k scecs.

 
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^ ^ ^ ^ Very well put!

 
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very well put i agree on that. i have seen a hole in some other posts as well. first off a dx/lx has the cat incorperated into the manifold. that means running a header on a dx/lx exhaust system means you cant have a cat unless you switch to a ex system which is what i did. you can use a 4-2-1 header with a ex with the correct midpipe. and as far as the comment about doing a lot of work to make the d17 rev to 8k is not true. i am in the process of doing headwork and a the stg 2 crower cam which includes the valve springs and retainers. this will allow you to go to 8k safely. so no the rods crank and so on do not need to be touched in order to achieve a higher rpm than stock. however it does require that you use a AEM EMS in order to remove the factory rev limiter in order to rev that high. mean piston speed has alot to do with producing power but does not come into play as much with a naturally aspirated engine because you are not pushing air into the motor causing it to rev faster, its more of a consistant draw. now there are SOHC motors that would surprise you guys. that is why i decided to build this motor instead of a swap. everyone wants a swap and no one is willing to make the ol d series show its true potential. realistically for the price of a swap you can build the d17 to make just about as much whp as a swap. just like any motor people think it has no potential because they have not actually done any mods beyond what they can bolt on. to see any true potential out of a motor you will need to massage the head a bit and do some internal work. i have seen 1.5l SOHC motors put down 300+hp. that is 200hp per liter. now if that isnt impressive i dont know what is.

 
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Hey man, I like your way of thinking...what is the first internal mod I can step into? I want to work on the core...I have just about given up and bought a new si, but I would rather not get another loan, and just tinker with my paid off vic, but I want to do some gaining mods , not bolt ons that gain 1-2 hp...

 
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ported tb and exhaust. then save $2k for dezod turbo. everything else useless. pnp is prolly the best mod but it will cost $1k for 10whp.

 
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Turbo kit, exhaust, clutch, wider tires....about $4k in parts = 60ish hp gain
Its all comedown to cost vs. gain
I'd love n/a d17, but imagine how much money you will spend to get same gain as generic t.kit (~60hp).
To get power in n/a, you will need to move a lot of air through the engine to make power, make engine to rev high past 8k, 9000+ rpm (moto engine is an example)
N/A (general $ figures)- $350 cam (ex only), $300 spring reatainer kit, $1200 AEM EMS , $500 header w/full cat back, $800 PnP head, $800 weight&ballance rods and crankshaft (poss new set of light custom rods = more $$), $600 high comp pistons, $? light valves, $? light camshaft - this is just basics...
Dont forget, you also need to work on gearbox to to withstand hig RPMs - ballancing all shafts, so they dont dissinigrade under load from vibration at high rotating speed....
Plus labour costs and tunning
This set up will have big n/a gain, I cant even estimate hp gain.
You need a lot of courage to get where you want. Yes, you right not many people has done it for obvious reasons. Someone has to try it.

 
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Thanks for the advice...don't really want to lose gas mileage, will pnp, bored tb, exaust, and turbo cause me to lose gas mileage?

 
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I say from my personal experience, I'm getting about 25mpg now

 
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man your listing things twice and you should be able to make 175-180whp depending on what you want to do. and it would cost just about as much as a swap or a turbo kit. look at dezods kit. for the good kit its like $4500. so $600 for cam and springs /retainers $1200 for ems $800 for headwork (high but ill use your numbers) cam gear $120 header $200. everything else you listed youll need for the turbo kit as well. so that is $2920 right there that leaves your imagination to do the rest to do as youd like. realistically with another set of rods and pistons you could raise the compression and easily reach you goal and still be under the cost of the turbo kit and making about the same power. ill be using a GSR manifold and a set of rsx injectors as well. i am setting my hopes low for 140whp. that is with out the rods and pistons. that is what dezods turbo kit made on a auto already and it costs a butt load more. so hp per $$ ratio isnt bad going n/a you are just limited to the hp level you can go but that also hold true for the turbo kit and boost pressure. so for almost half the cost i am going to make about 20whp less if that.

 
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undersquare/oversquare engine those are both made up terms. There term you want to refer to when talking about high revving is a rod stroke ratio.

Also all honda cranks are ballanced, infact all cranks are ballanced period.

 
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I dont want to build d17 n/a - way expensive, I also already have my d17 turboed for a...while
Yes, this was just a general list of parts that needed for n/a build...
As far as ballancing, yes, they do come ballanced, no argument about it, I should've elaborate on this, as to ballance it for higher tolerence, since engine will be revving past manufacturers recomendation...
oversquare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversquare
undersquare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undersquare

 
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familycar
Yes, you right, you dont need to use all your available options to get you to 140whp, in fact its quite possible and doable without great expence....GSR intake mani is way better flowing piece than d17 IM, but as I've read it a little complex to set it up with d17. d16 is easier to install, as far as I remember it almost direct fit (read on this board, no experience though with IM). I've set up a general list was just to give you and idea for a "crazy" n/a, so to speak....
Sorry, if I overwelmed you with info, I must've missed on your HP goal in you initial reply.
Let me know if you need some help.
Cheers!

 
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your still making a refference that is not true. you can make just about the same power n/a as you can forced induction for less money. you keep saying its more expensive. i listed a costs and to make 180whp with a higher comp headwork with cam and AEM EMS, pistons and rods would still cost less than doing dezods turbo kit and you can make about the same power as boosting with stock internals. ill prove it with my set up. because eventually i will be doing the rods and pistons. i will post dyno numbers of my headwork cam, valvesprings/retainers aem cam gear and AEM EMS just to show that is can be done. now if i make more power than dezods turbo kit on an auto with just the headwork its really going to change people minds hopefully.

 
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that is understandable but remember your not going to do a "crazy" turbo build either with that amount of money. realistically probably around 180whp is attainable with out doing any cam or headwork with his turbo kit. but the same can be had n/a for about the same amount of money

 
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Yeah, we are taking about different t.kits, I run TSI extreme that I've bought for $2600, made 160whp on a2, I used muffler silencer (stupid me)...
In the spring I'll make duny run with new plugs, air filter and without silencer, and my light weight rims, hopefuly will see 170whp, will see...
But, hey, if you can get parts for a good price then for shure do it! I'm with you on it!
Honestly, before turbo I was going to go n/a, but I do not have access to all hardware to work on the engine, so labour would of been a killer for me, thats why I went turbo, I put in kit myself and so fat so good...knock on wood..

 
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see that is what i am saying. for the $2600 you got the base kit. that means a so so fuel system and only the t25 non ball berring turbo. which basically leaves a lot of room for improvement. ill spend about as much with the headwork and i should make close to the same power. if you would have gone the extreme kit you would have spent almost $4k ($3800) and made about 180-200whp which is what i will make after about that much in to a n/a set up. but what ever the cost they are both fun. a turbo kit is noce but origonally i wasnt going to spend that much. but now i have changed my mind and am going to do a full build and see what she can make full n/a. i will post results here when each step is completed.

 
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Yes, I have a basic kit with t25, intercooler and 2 extra injectors....
For sure go n/a and let us all see what it can do!
Good luck!
reped you for your big n/a plans!

 
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reped for your nice persona and knowledge as well

 
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^ you two should get a room

its nice to see good posts rather than the typical flamming bullshit

 
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hey now watch it! its nice to be nice when your nice but a butt loving ****** i am not unless its a chicks *** then ill giver her the shocker