Not your normal header thread....
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Not your normal header thread....
As per usual, I'm not shopping for things the way everyone else does.
There's a little rule in the SCCA book... it says something about headers being allowed to be changed as long as they're emissions legal. So... naturally that throws a kink in things. As far as I can tell, the Kamikaze and HP headers are offered as just top sections, and obviously the cat stays, and so do the emission controls.
Now.... I realize most people look for which one adds the most power (top end). I on the other hand, could care less. I wanna know which one adds the most torque between 2500 and 5500 RPM. It could do nothing for my top end, and I wouldn't care (I know it will do something, but it isn't high on my list of priorities). The only problem is, I've never seen a dyno or any kind of test for either. I'm banking on the larger, smoother piping helping pull the exhaust out of the head faster and buying me some extra power over the stock choker, but I haven't managed to find a set of side by side dimensional specs on them.
The real question, has anyone had BOTH on their car (or you got one and your buddy has the other and you traded cars)? I guess that would be the true test, but if anyone has a dynograph or timeslips before and after or something, I guess that will do. *** dynos as a last resort.
The other thing is the price. I see the HP one at around $200 ($210 was cheapest I found, better anywhere?), and the Kamikaze more like $260-$300 (I think $268 was the cheapest I saw the black one, is that good?)... is there some serious quality difference or what? I noticed Kamikazies were made to order, which comes off as big points in my book, but that doesn't make them better. Last thing, they both just bolt on right?
There's a little rule in the SCCA book... it says something about headers being allowed to be changed as long as they're emissions legal. So... naturally that throws a kink in things. As far as I can tell, the Kamikaze and HP headers are offered as just top sections, and obviously the cat stays, and so do the emission controls.
Now.... I realize most people look for which one adds the most power (top end). I on the other hand, could care less. I wanna know which one adds the most torque between 2500 and 5500 RPM. It could do nothing for my top end, and I wouldn't care (I know it will do something, but it isn't high on my list of priorities). The only problem is, I've never seen a dyno or any kind of test for either. I'm banking on the larger, smoother piping helping pull the exhaust out of the head faster and buying me some extra power over the stock choker, but I haven't managed to find a set of side by side dimensional specs on them.
The real question, has anyone had BOTH on their car (or you got one and your buddy has the other and you traded cars)? I guess that would be the true test, but if anyone has a dynograph or timeslips before and after or something, I guess that will do. *** dynos as a last resort.
The other thing is the price. I see the HP one at around $200 ($210 was cheapest I found, better anywhere?), and the Kamikaze more like $260-$300 (I think $268 was the cheapest I saw the black one, is that good?)... is there some serious quality difference or what? I noticed Kamikazies were made to order, which comes off as big points in my book, but that doesn't make them better. Last thing, they both just bolt on right?
Last edited by Boilermaker1; Nov 24, 2003 at 09:30 PM.
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Rep Power: 0 pricing im not sure about but everyone ive heard form says hp has been alot better than the usual great for honda...DC SPORTS. ive also heard that the dc headers put up good numbers if u also have the TCS exhuast. someone had a pic of the dc headers next to hp headers and theres a huge difference id go with HP im goign to do greddy evo exhaust and HP headers
hp header diy http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1
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Rep Power: 305 actually, since aftermarket headers have a larger diameter piping, you'd lose low end. so, i think you should stick with either the stock exhaust manifold or get the DC sports, which is essentially the same as stock but smoother bends.
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Rep Power: 424 The low end (0-2500 or so) doesn't matter to me. I only need to launch it once... and I can do it from almost 4000 RPM (not to mention I have 10 feet before I hit the start lights to get the revs up). I'm lookin at this from an autoX application here. Mid-range is everything since most corner exits are dead smack in the middle of the rev range. I figure by 1/2 way, larger piping is going to help me out.
If I had to guess, the car is gonna run between 3000 and 6000 almost 95% of the time, and anytime I got my foot on the gas, I'll be in a hurry to get somewhere, so I want some pull (which is a contradiction on a Honda, but I can try).
If I had to guess, the car is gonna run between 3000 and 6000 almost 95% of the time, and anytime I got my foot on the gas, I'll be in a hurry to get somewhere, so I want some pull (which is a contradiction on a Honda, but I can try).
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Rep Power: 305 then go for the larger diameter piping headers like HP or Kamakazie. just get the top portion and then try to get a high flow cat and see if its still emissions legal.
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From: Chicago Burbs, Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 528 Boilermaker1, I just installed the hp top portion. You can read my thread about it (it was linked to a few posts up in this thread). I don't have the exact dimensions, but I posted 4 side by side comparison pics in that thread so you can get a feel for the difference in size.
Like I also mentioned in that thread, I'm going to do G-Tech tests with it, but I'll also have installed my lightweight rims when I do them so any gains I see will be in part because of the header and in part because of the lighter weight rims.
As I said in an updated post, after the ECU has had some time to adjust, I feel more pull throughout the entire rpm band, not just the high end.
Read that whole thread; I put a lot of info in it. If you have any more questions, PM me or post here.
Like I also mentioned in that thread, I'm going to do G-Tech tests with it, but I'll also have installed my lightweight rims when I do them so any gains I see will be in part because of the header and in part because of the lighter weight rims.
As I said in an updated post, after the ECU has had some time to adjust, I feel more pull throughout the entire rpm band, not just the high end.
Read that whole thread; I put a lot of info in it. If you have any more questions, PM me or post here.
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 ^^^ unfortunately High flow cats are against the STS rules. So its pretty much just the header that can be changed.
And I have read the big HP thread. It helps, but what I really wanna see is a comparison. It doesn't look like anyone has one though... So I guess I'll have to gamble on what my gut thinks.
And I have read the big HP thread. It helps, but what I really wanna see is a comparison. It doesn't look like anyone has one though... So I guess I'll have to gamble on what my gut thinks.
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Rep Power: 528 Originally posted by keepin_it_clean
Just tryin to help u out there....he only says he feels it in the low rpms with his *** dyno, so that basically answers your ? on the hp.
Just tryin to help u out there....he only says he feels it in the low rpms with his *** dyno, so that basically answers your ? on the hp.
I'll go edit that thread (again) to make it easier to read.
Originally posted by Boilermaker1
^^^ unfortunately High flow cats are against the STS rules. So its pretty much just the header that can be changed.
^^^ unfortunately High flow cats are against the STS rules. So its pretty much just the header that can be changed.
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 I know they're street legal. But they're not class legal for autocross. I have to consider that when I buy stuff. I'm not really building my car for the street as much as I am for the cone dodging.
And does anyone know of better prices (new) than the ones I posted that I found?
And does anyone know of better prices (new) than the ones I posted that I found?
Last edited by Boilermaker1; Nov 24, 2003 at 10:25 PM.
Originally posted by IronFist
If you read an updated reply of mine in that thread, you'll see that I now feel it throughout the entire rpm band. I think my ECU needed 200 more miles to compensate it.
I'll go edit that thread (again) to make it easier to read.
If you read an updated reply of mine in that thread, you'll see that I now feel it throughout the entire rpm band. I think my ECU needed 200 more miles to compensate it.
I'll go edit that thread (again) to make it easier to read.
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From: Chicago Burbs, Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 528 Originally posted by Boilermaker1
And does anyone know of better prices (new) than the ones I posted that I found?
And does anyone know of better prices (new) than the ones I posted that I found?
I paid $130 used with like 5,000 miles on it.
Re: Not your normal header thread....
Originally posted by Boilermaker1
As per usual, I'm not shopping for things the way everyone else does.
There's a little rule in the SCCA book... it says something about headers being allowed to be changed as long as they're emissions legal. So... naturally that throws a kink in things. As far as I can tell, the Kamikaze and HP headers are offered as just top sections, and obviously the cat stays, and so do the emission controls.
Now.... I realize most people look for which one adds the most power (top end). I on the other hand, could care less. I wanna know which one adds the most torque between 2500 and 5500 RPM. It could do nothing for my top end, and I wouldn't care (I know it will do something, but it isn't high on my list of priorities). The only problem is, I've never seen a dyno or any kind of test for either. I'm banking on the larger, smoother piping helping pull the exhaust out of the head faster and buying me some extra power over the stock choker, but I haven't managed to find a set of side by side dimensional specs on them.
The real question, has anyone had BOTH on their car (or you got one and your buddy has the other and you traded cars)? I guess that would be the true test, but if anyone has a dynograph or timeslips before and after or something, I guess that will do. *** dynos as a last resort.
The other thing is the price. I see the HP one at around $200 ($210 was cheapest I found, better anywhere?), and the Kamikaze more like $260-$300 (I think $268 was the cheapest I saw the black one, is that good?)... is there some serious quality difference or what? I noticed Kamikazies were made to order, which comes off as big points in my book, but that doesn't make them better. Last thing, they both just bolt on right?
As per usual, I'm not shopping for things the way everyone else does.
There's a little rule in the SCCA book... it says something about headers being allowed to be changed as long as they're emissions legal. So... naturally that throws a kink in things. As far as I can tell, the Kamikaze and HP headers are offered as just top sections, and obviously the cat stays, and so do the emission controls.
Now.... I realize most people look for which one adds the most power (top end). I on the other hand, could care less. I wanna know which one adds the most torque between 2500 and 5500 RPM. It could do nothing for my top end, and I wouldn't care (I know it will do something, but it isn't high on my list of priorities). The only problem is, I've never seen a dyno or any kind of test for either. I'm banking on the larger, smoother piping helping pull the exhaust out of the head faster and buying me some extra power over the stock choker, but I haven't managed to find a set of side by side dimensional specs on them.
The real question, has anyone had BOTH on their car (or you got one and your buddy has the other and you traded cars)? I guess that would be the true test, but if anyone has a dynograph or timeslips before and after or something, I guess that will do. *** dynos as a last resort.
The other thing is the price. I see the HP one at around $200 ($210 was cheapest I found, better anywhere?), and the Kamikaze more like $260-$300 (I think $268 was the cheapest I saw the black one, is that good?)... is there some serious quality difference or what? I noticed Kamikazies were made to order, which comes off as big points in my book, but that doesn't make them better. Last thing, they both just bolt on right?
if you're lookin for torque inbetween 2500-5500 (6500) rpms, I suggest you get the K&N FIPK II ... that has the best midrange torque
I've used the Injen CAI and it doesn't have as great torque ... AEM has good low end, but sucks around 4500/5000
Also ... I am currently offering a Kamikaze hi temp black coating header for $165 shipped if you're interested as well ... I just sold my K&N though ... heh
I've used the Injen CAI and it doesn't have as great torque ... AEM has good low end, but sucks around 4500/5000
Also ... I am currently offering a Kamikaze hi temp black coating header for $165 shipped if you're interested as well ... I just sold my K&N though ... heh
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Rep Power: 528 Originally posted by aznboysrfr
if you're lookin for torque inbetween 2500-5500 (6500) rpms, I suggest you get the K&N FIPK II ... that has the best midrange torque
if you're lookin for torque inbetween 2500-5500 (6500) rpms, I suggest you get the K&N FIPK II ... that has the best midrange torque
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Rep Power: 0 Re: Re: Not your normal header thread....
Originally posted by mclean987
first i had the dcsports on my car and never notice any gain and then i bought an hp racing and noticed a big gain especially when i added intake and exhaust, used it for 3 months and now im going turbo so selling the headers for $150 shipped you interested ?
first i had the dcsports on my car and never notice any gain and then i bought an hp racing and noticed a big gain especially when i added intake and exhaust, used it for 3 months and now im going turbo so selling the headers for $150 shipped you interested ?
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 I've just got an Injen cold air and an RS*R exhaust. Header would kinda put them together. I gotta keep an eye on the rules when I mess with stuff, but at somepoint I'm going to put a programmable piggyback thing in (either VAFC or emanage) but I only want to tune it once, so its probably wise to get the bolt ons taken care of.
I think I'm going to get the Kamikaze. Especially considering I can actually find dimensions on it and a place to buy it. HP's own damn website doesn't even have any information on it. So I figure for $261 from BigJoshRacing why not.
I think I'm going to get the Kamikaze. Especially considering I can actually find dimensions on it and a place to buy it. HP's own damn website doesn't even have any information on it. So I figure for $261 from BigJoshRacing why not.
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Rep Power: 0 Ya, I guess. Its your choice, but here...
http://www.dcsports.com/images/dyno/kseries.jpg
... I know its a k-series, but thats the only dyno run I found for their header. Heres a listing of other dynos on dc cars...
http://www.dcsports.com/dyno.html
With what ever header you get, it is a direct replacement for the stock header. Its not that hard to install at all. Maybe a 15-20 min job after the engine is cool. I would recommend getting a dounut and header gasket for the new header. You dont have to, but the gaskets are already smushed are you will be untighting them and retightening them, with could cause exhaust gas leaks, which leads to loss in power.
http://www.dcsports.com/images/dyno/kseries.jpg
... I know its a k-series, but thats the only dyno run I found for their header. Heres a listing of other dynos on dc cars...
http://www.dcsports.com/dyno.html
With what ever header you get, it is a direct replacement for the stock header. Its not that hard to install at all. Maybe a 15-20 min job after the engine is cool. I would recommend getting a dounut and header gasket for the new header. You dont have to, but the gaskets are already smushed are you will be untighting them and retightening them, with could cause exhaust gas leaks, which leads to loss in power.
Last edited by Green Civic; Nov 25, 2003 at 11:40 AM.
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Rep Power: 424 Then someone show me some place where I can get some information on the HP one. I spent 20 minutes on the phone with someone at Big Josh Racing this afternoon and had every question I had about the Kamikaze answered. Thats something that usually makes me buy something.
So.... where is that place? I've already tried a few with HP questions, no one knows the answer. Or someone just give me the diameter of the primary tubes... at least tell me that much, I can't even get the answer to that from a store.
Oh... and I have a thing against buying used parts. So there's no need to try and sell them to me. That isn't why I started this thread anyways.
So.... where is that place? I've already tried a few with HP questions, no one knows the answer. Or someone just give me the diameter of the primary tubes... at least tell me that much, I can't even get the answer to that from a store.
Oh... and I have a thing against buying used parts. So there's no need to try and sell them to me. That isn't why I started this thread anyways.
heres mine 
its hp racing shorty. it helped my middle range power decently. but still youre not going to see but about 2 hp from it. it also should be legal.
its hp racing shorty. it helped my middle range power decently. but still youre not going to see but about 2 hp from it. it also should be legal.
Last edited by R3DL1N3; Nov 25, 2003 at 10:56 PM.
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From: Chicago Burbs, Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 528 Crap. I should have measured the diameter of the tubes. Maybe you could ask mclean987 since he has his uninstalled right now.
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Rep Power: 424 Take a Tailor's tape measure out there, wrap it around the header pipe.
Read where the end meets the tape after you wrap it around.
Take what the tape measure says multiply it by 2 then divide by 6.28. Come back and post that number.
Read where the end meets the tape after you wrap it around.
Take what the tape measure says multiply it by 2 then divide by 6.28. Come back and post that number.
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Rep Power: 528 Why multiply it by 2 and then divide by 6.28? Why not just NOT multiply by 2 and divide by pi?
Anyway, that doesn't take into account the thickness of the metal that makes up the piping.
But, I'll go measure it for you anyway just cuz you're cool.
brb.
Anyway, that doesn't take into account the thickness of the metal that makes up the piping.
But, I'll go measure it for you anyway just cuz you're cool.
brb.
