ignition timing help!!
10-01-2012
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ignition timing help!! hello all!
Looking for some advice since this car is driving me nuts!!!
i cannot get the ignition timing to 16 btdc on my 95 hond civic ex d16z6 motor.
The distributor is even all the way advanced - i keep getting close around maybe 11 or 12 degrees but not within spec to smog it.
The distibutor is brand new - just had the valves adjusted after a head replacement - (long story) and the mechanic was saying he couldn't get it to time - was saying it was either the dizzy or the cam isn't right in the car. I have since replaced it with another dizzy(same issue) - i even had this same issue w/ the prior head before it was replace - so that make me believe that its not the cam either.
Most recenly i have pulled the throttle body apart and cleaned all that out. I even cleaned out the FICV(suggested by other sites) and moved turned that all the way back in. The ICV has also been cleaned and replaced the o-ring and screen inside that - I can get the car to idol and run really smooth - but its not at the spec of 16 degress and smog places will fail it for this. I would really appreciate it if anyone has come across this issue before and could post any advice or what i could look at next that would be throwing off the ignition timing. supposedly the mechanic put the mechanical timing spot on - if it was off a tooth i would think i would be further off - have read about 20 degrees or so.
Thank you for reading!
Kevin
Looking for some advice since this car is driving me nuts!!!
i cannot get the ignition timing to 16 btdc on my 95 hond civic ex d16z6 motor.
The distributor is even all the way advanced - i keep getting close around maybe 11 or 12 degrees but not within spec to smog it.
The distibutor is brand new - just had the valves adjusted after a head replacement - (long story) and the mechanic was saying he couldn't get it to time - was saying it was either the dizzy or the cam isn't right in the car. I have since replaced it with another dizzy(same issue) - i even had this same issue w/ the prior head before it was replace - so that make me believe that its not the cam either.
Most recenly i have pulled the throttle body apart and cleaned all that out. I even cleaned out the FICV(suggested by other sites) and moved turned that all the way back in. The ICV has also been cleaned and replaced the o-ring and screen inside that - I can get the car to idol and run really smooth - but its not at the spec of 16 degress and smog places will fail it for this. I would really appreciate it if anyone has come across this issue before and could post any advice or what i could look at next that would be throwing off the ignition timing. supposedly the mechanic put the mechanical timing spot on - if it was off a tooth i would think i would be further off - have read about 20 degrees or so.
Thank you for reading!
Kevin
10-01-2012
#2
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: ignition timing help!!
Find a different emissions sticker. D15B8 times at 12 deg. 
Ok no, don't do that......
Are you jumpering the SCS connector before checking the timing? Gotta do that to lock it in base timing mode.
See a proper service manual for real details.
Are you aiming for the red mark? White is for TDC, red is for timing.
False marks: Has the balancer wheel slipped? Drop a long screwdriver in #1 plug hole, use a wrench to slowly roll the engine over til the piston is at true TDC. Check if the white mark on the pulley is still really indicating TDC. It happens once in a while, make sure yours is still good..
Otherwise....If the timing belt is "right", then the distributor must be the fault.
The timing belt MUST be right before ignition timing can be done. Triple check it. But yeah, it would probably be 20 or more out if it was off a tooth.
How many aftermarket distributors have been tried?
You started with a cheapo reman, I'm betting.
Cheapo remans.
"Can't be timed" is a common reason to return them. "Won't run at all" and "sets codes" are the others.
May have to try several in a row before finding a good one. Try different brands.
This is one of many reasons why I absolutely hate aftermarket electrical stuff.
Evidently during reassembly at the remanufacturer place, one of the trigger wheels is mis-installed, or a pickup coil isn't mounted properly. Easy things to miss, especially if you never have to make sure your work actually works correctly.
Know anyone with the same car? Swap dist. to make sure that's the problem.
Factory distributor FTW.
HTH
Ok no, don't do that......
Are you jumpering the SCS connector before checking the timing? Gotta do that to lock it in base timing mode.
See a proper service manual for real details.
Are you aiming for the red mark? White is for TDC, red is for timing.
False marks: Has the balancer wheel slipped? Drop a long screwdriver in #1 plug hole, use a wrench to slowly roll the engine over til the piston is at true TDC. Check if the white mark on the pulley is still really indicating TDC. It happens once in a while, make sure yours is still good..
Otherwise....If the timing belt is "right", then the distributor must be the fault.
The timing belt MUST be right before ignition timing can be done. Triple check it. But yeah, it would probably be 20 or more out if it was off a tooth.
How many aftermarket distributors have been tried?
You started with a cheapo reman, I'm betting.
Cheapo remans.
"Can't be timed" is a common reason to return them. "Won't run at all" and "sets codes" are the others.
May have to try several in a row before finding a good one. Try different brands.
This is one of many reasons why I absolutely hate aftermarket electrical stuff.
Evidently during reassembly at the remanufacturer place, one of the trigger wheels is mis-installed, or a pickup coil isn't mounted properly. Easy things to miss, especially if you never have to make sure your work actually works correctly.
Know anyone with the same car? Swap dist. to make sure that's the problem.
Factory distributor FTW.
HTH
10-01-2012
#3
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: ignition timing help!!
More thoughts: Cam pulley slipped, damaged keyway from being left loose at some point.
Twisted camshaft is a thought, probably almost impossible though.
Twisted camshaft is a thought, probably almost impossible though.
10-02-2012
#4
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Re: ignition timing help!! Find a different emissions sticker. D15B8 times at 12 deg.
Ok no, don't do that......
"about to at this point!!!!!
"
Are you jumpering the SCS connector before checking the timing? Gotta do that to lock it in base timing mode.
See a proper service manual for real details.
I have tried doing with and w/o jumpering it - last night when i was trying i was getting codes 14 &21 - IACV and VTEC spool solenoid - i had unplugged the IACV at one point trying to adjust the throttle adjust screw after cleaning the throttle body - and the solenoid had the wire slip out of the plug at one point - so i reset the ecu and now when i jumper the cel just stays solid - so im assuming thats a good thing since its not throwing any more codes.
Are you aiming for the red mark? White is for TDC, red is for timing.
Yup - red mark inbetween the 2 white marks - and the single white is TDC
at full advance of the dizzy im coming in just below the the first white mark before red.
False marks: Has the balancer wheel slipped? Drop a long screwdriver in #1 plug hole, use a wrench to slowly roll the engine over til the piston is at true TDC. Check if the white mark on the pulley is still really indicating TDC. It happens once in a while, make sure yours is still good..
Otherwise....If the timing belt is "right", then the distributor must be the fault.
The timing belt MUST be right before ignition timing can be done. Triple check it. But yeah, it would probably be 20 or more out if it was off a tooth.
Will definately go check these again - i dont know if the balancer has slipped - but its better to know the timing belt is right
How many aftermarket distributors have been tried?
You started with a cheapo reman, I'm betting.
Cheapo remans.
"Can't be timed" is a common reason to return them. "Won't run at all" and "sets codes" are the others.
May have to try several in a row before finding a good one. Try different brands.
This is one of many reasons why I absolutely hate aftermarket electrical stuff.
This is my second try and yes i went w/ a reman - this was a rebuilt engine replacement so tried to cut a corner - but at this point lessoned learned - will probably try to go with a brand new one next if timing checks ok - difference in $$ for reman vs. new was $40 i think - worth it at this point.
Evidently during reassembly at the remanufacturer place, one of the trigger wheels is mis-installed, or a pickup coil isn't mounted properly. Easy things to miss, especially if you never have to make sure your work actually works correctly.
Know anyone with the same car? Swap dist. to make sure that's the problem.
Factory distributor FTW.
HTH
Ok no, don't do that......
"about to at this point!!!!!
"Are you jumpering the SCS connector before checking the timing? Gotta do that to lock it in base timing mode.
See a proper service manual for real details.
I have tried doing with and w/o jumpering it - last night when i was trying i was getting codes 14 &21 - IACV and VTEC spool solenoid - i had unplugged the IACV at one point trying to adjust the throttle adjust screw after cleaning the throttle body - and the solenoid had the wire slip out of the plug at one point - so i reset the ecu and now when i jumper the cel just stays solid - so im assuming thats a good thing since its not throwing any more codes.
Are you aiming for the red mark? White is for TDC, red is for timing.
Yup - red mark inbetween the 2 white marks - and the single white is TDC
at full advance of the dizzy im coming in just below the the first white mark before red.
False marks: Has the balancer wheel slipped? Drop a long screwdriver in #1 plug hole, use a wrench to slowly roll the engine over til the piston is at true TDC. Check if the white mark on the pulley is still really indicating TDC. It happens once in a while, make sure yours is still good..
Otherwise....If the timing belt is "right", then the distributor must be the fault.
The timing belt MUST be right before ignition timing can be done. Triple check it. But yeah, it would probably be 20 or more out if it was off a tooth.
Will definately go check these again - i dont know if the balancer has slipped - but its better to know the timing belt is right
How many aftermarket distributors have been tried?
You started with a cheapo reman, I'm betting.
Cheapo remans.
"Can't be timed" is a common reason to return them. "Won't run at all" and "sets codes" are the others.
May have to try several in a row before finding a good one. Try different brands.
This is one of many reasons why I absolutely hate aftermarket electrical stuff.
This is my second try and yes i went w/ a reman - this was a rebuilt engine replacement so tried to cut a corner - but at this point lessoned learned - will probably try to go with a brand new one next if timing checks ok - difference in $$ for reman vs. new was $40 i think - worth it at this point.
Evidently during reassembly at the remanufacturer place, one of the trigger wheels is mis-installed, or a pickup coil isn't mounted properly. Easy things to miss, especially if you never have to make sure your work actually works correctly.
Know anyone with the same car? Swap dist. to make sure that's the problem.
Factory distributor FTW.
HTH
Thanks again for your reply and thoughts - i'll keep this posted
10-02-2012
#5
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: ignition timing help!!
You could chop out the dist mounting holes for more room to twist it.
No, you better not do that either.
Would probably fail the visual checks as a "tamper".
No, you better not do that either.
Would probably fail the visual checks as a "tamper".
11-06-2012
#6
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found out the problem to this issue.
the rebuilt motor was a D16Z6 head - however the machine shop
had installed a Y8 camshaft.
Supposedly the difference between a Z6 cam and a Y8 cam is minimal.
However if you hold them side by side the dizzy mark is off thus causing a 5 degree difference on the ignition timing.
Thanks all for the help.
Wanted to make sure i came up and posted the final results - car passed smog!
the rebuilt motor was a D16Z6 head - however the machine shop
had installed a Y8 camshaft.
Supposedly the difference between a Z6 cam and a Y8 cam is minimal.
However if you hold them side by side the dizzy mark is off thus causing a 5 degree difference on the ignition timing.
Thanks all for the help.
Wanted to make sure i came up and posted the final results - car passed smog!
11-06-2012
#7
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: ignition timing help!!
found out the problem to this issue.
the rebuilt motor was a D16Z6 head - however the machine shop
had installed a Y8 camshaft.
Supposedly the difference between a Z6 cam and a Y8 cam is minimal.
However if you hold them side by side the dizzy mark is off thus causing a 5 degree difference on the ignition timing.
the rebuilt motor was a D16Z6 head - however the machine shop
had installed a Y8 camshaft.
Supposedly the difference between a Z6 cam and a Y8 cam is minimal.
However if you hold them side by side the dizzy mark is off thus causing a 5 degree difference on the ignition timing.
I sure wouldn't have suspected this as I normally only deal with plain old normal stock units. Thanks for the update.
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