sldrmedic

I just bought Eibach Pro-kit springs and KYB GR-2 struts all around and I would like to avoid using ANY of my old suspension parts, what do I need to finish this setup? Bump stops, hats, spring isolators??? What are the OEM part names so I can search EBAY for them? I want to set the whole coilover (if thats what the stock setup is even called) up b4 I take the old ones out so it is just an easy in/out swap. I've never replaced a suspension on an import b4 and am trying to do this swap myself along with new rear Godspeed aluminum lower control arms, full camber kit fr. and rear, and Whiteline Rear 22mm Heavy Duty Adjustable Swaybar with frame bracket. Am I in over my head with this and how many hours should I be looking at with this whole install?

MindBomber

You are buying all the wrong parts.

KYB GR-2 cannot be used with lowering springs. Order Progress CS-II instead of going with a lowering spring, shock combination.

Don't order Godspeed control arms, you'll need to replace them in six months if you do. Either keep the stock arms with ES bushing inserts, or order Function 7 replacements.

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

Buying a sway bar was also a waste. Sway-bars fine tune your suspension after everything else is done and is still in need of adjustment (for example, if you are having massive understeer issues, then you install a rear sway bar).

sldrmedic

Ok thank you for the advice concerning the spring/shock combo I ALREADY BOUGHT/PAID FOR/AM INSTALLING. I've read a multitude of threads about this combo and although it is not the top pick it is still very usable and effective together.

I already bought the sway bar BECAUSE I plan to install it WITH the springs-struts/LCA's and camber kit IN ORDER to fine tune the suspension.

My question is not wheather or not I should buy these items, my question is..."what do I need to finish this setup? Bump stops, hats, spring isolators??? What are the OEM part names so I can search EBAY for them? I want to set the whole coilover (if thats what the stock setup is even called) up b4 I take the old ones out so it is just an easy in/out swap."

MindBomber

The KYB GR-2s are just going to ride like **** and blow, there's no point in installing them if you do so paired with lowering springs. You're throwing money away, nothing else. Same with the LCAs, they'll be toast in six-months to a year.

sldrmedic

.........Thanx AGAIN for COMPLETELY negating the actual QUESTION I AM ASKING! I have NO interest in your opinion on my purchase. I have researched the combo and feel confident in my decision. If I am wrong I was well informed and will have nobody to blame but myself as I have read a handfull of threads advising against them, I have ALSO read ALOT of threads saying they are fine for up to 4 yrs daily driver...I ALSO have friends with this setup that have driven them daily for years....sooooooo.....Let's try and stick to the ACTUAL ? presented in this thread twice already...thanx

MindBomber

They aren't fine for a daily. You're buying parts that are completely unnecessary, such as the camber kit, or will fall apart, such as the control arms and stock shocks. You'd be wise to listen to my and Zef's advice, we know a little more about this than you and are just sparing you from throwing away money.

Cancel the order/return the KYB/Eibach combo. They will not work, wherever you read that the advice was totally wrong or you misunderstood it. Instead, spend the same amount of money and buy Progress CSII coilovers.

You can reuse bump stops, hats, spring isolators.

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

Part numbers are easy to find, go to the honda dealer and have them pull them for you. Replace top mounts, ball joints and wheel bearings. Those all tend to blow once you go to aftermarket suspension on a Honda. It'll be very inexpensive to replace everything else, and it makes sense to just swap em out while you have everything torn apart.

For future setups, I'd go directly to the manufacturer for questions regarding the product instead of your friends. Every setup, even if its identical, is going to act a little bit differently on every car. There's also a lot of personal preference in those recommendations, so I would just be careful.

Showing how much research you really did, straight from the KYB manufacturer website, "GR-2 shocks are an OEM replacement shock and it is not recommended that you pair lowering springs with these shocks, if you are interested in lowering, check out the KYB AGX"

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

Accidental double post >.>

Scenemaker

Looks like you are in need of a real response to your question.

Next weekend I am going to be doing a similar build. Here is what I have so far.

Eibach Pro-kit springs
Eibach Pro-kit Struts
Eibach rear camber kit
Blox competition front camber kit
Energy suspension bushings

I am not going to add a rear sway bar or do strut tower braces or anything of that nature for the simple fact that this is A, a budget build to get ready for a local road course and some autocrossing events this summer and B, it's a pretty much stock D series motor so with what I am doing, I will have more suspension than motor. Also, LCA's are nice to have and in your case (with the sway bar) probably a good idea but not a necessity for me.

As for your build, as long as the spring and strut combo will work...which I almost went with before I caught a really good deal on the Eibach struts and I am pretty sure it will work for you. The pro-kit is not an aggressive drop so OEM replacement struts should be okay to use but expect shorter life and really no performance gain over stock other than the fact that your current struts are old and worn out. Not the ideal setup, but it will work. As for the bump stops, don't take too much off but you more than likely will need to trim a little. My pro-kit springs came with instructions for this. If you didn't get this sheet, let me know and I will send you a copy.

Here is what you need to know:

(Note that most of this info comes from my brother who is assisting me with this build and he is one of the more known Honda guru's in my area)
Your car is circa 1998 and most likely the suspension has never been taken apart. Be prepared for hidden gems, rust and seized bolts and have parts on hand. You will want to be ready for anything. First off, do the front struts come with forks? If not be ready to replace the stock ones incase you mess them up when you are taking everything apart. You WILL need a torch to get things apart and in doing so you will melt the bushings. Pick up an energy suspension kit. $140 Bolts, buy the important ones ahead of time. Here are the part numbers of the bolts I am getting in advance, 2 of each. 90175-SH3-005 90215-SB0-003 90173-SR3-003 Order them from Majestic Honda or wherever you go for your OEM parts. After the install, you will want to get an alignment ASAP since you are using camber kits. Get it as good as you can using your best judgment and either trailer if you have it or drive directly to the nearest shop. Make sure they regularly work with modified suspension. Your car will be virtually undrivable until you do. If you have some **** tires laying around, put those on for the drive. No sense putting extra wear on your good tires, regardless of how short the drive is.

My final piece of advice, have another form of transportation ready for work for the week. You never know what you will come across during install and your weekend project will quickly become a week long project.

I hope this helps and good luck. You shouldn't be in over your head as long as you are a mechanical savvy person. Just don't be in a rush to get it done, make sure you use proper torque settings and such and you will be fine. Keep in mind that your suspension is vital to the safety of your vehicle and don't cut corners. Do it right the first time and reap the rewards later.

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

We are critiquing his setup because he asked the question "what do I need to complete my setup", but what Mindbomber and I are trying to say is, what you're starting out with won't work. It's a fair statement and not off-topic to his original question. Whats the point of replacing all of that when the shocks are only going to last 6-8 months? If that?

For daily driving he might get away with it because the pro-kit springs are progressive which are easier on shocks and better for daily driving in general. The fact that the manufacturer implicitly recommends not to run lowering springs with the GR-2 shocks should carry a lot more weight than your opinion.

What's frustrating is his arrogance. We are trying to help, that's what forums are for. Just because you bought something doesn't mean you can't return it and get something else. If he just took our advice to return the GR-2's and get AGX's (or Progress CSII's like Mindbomber mentioned) instead this whole argument would've ended 5 posts ago. He's acting like he knows his ****, but is asking if he should replace 15+ year old bolts, washers and bushings? Something doesn't quite add up there.

Yes, its probably going to be the first time that suspensions been taken apart. You're going to want to get those parts straight from Honda. Don't even bother with part #'s. Go up to the parts guy, tell them to print out a diagram of the suspension, and just go down the list and get every damn bolt and washer on there. OEM parts can have fitment issues and you have a shot at getting the wrong part.

Buy a huge tub of anti-seize. Energy suspension bushings are a great idea. Link is right here: http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...?prod=16.18110
That will cover most of the stuff that you're looking to replace anyway.

Scenemaker

I agree fully, the AGX's would be a much wiser purchase. However, he appears intent on using what he has bought so I answered his question as best as I could. Your response is spot on, but I don't think he will change his mind, I simply wanted to throw in some pointers that will make his install smoother, regardless of the setup he is going with. Also, I want to renig my first response that stated I was looking at the GR-2 struts. I pulled up my old list of potential parts and I was actually looking at the AGX struts. But either way, it will work but he will blow them, out. At least he is not pairing them with the Eibach sportlines.

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

Admin, please .

Scenemaker

Why?

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

because its getting a little hostile and Z doesnt want it to get out of hand.

lets play nice children.

bomber- just let him be. i know this is a passionate subject for most of us, but he already bought his stuff and let him ride it out (no pun intended)

OP- ur question has been answered in depth already. you can replace all that stuff (like top hat) but it is highly unnecessary. my advise is for you to get poly LCA bushings (like many of mentioned) because those are what will fail you next. guaranteed.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

[off topic]
and once advise OP (original poster), this is a public forum and everyone can/will say whatever they want. if they feel like they need to suggest you something else that may help you, they will. if u want to listen to them or not, it is your call.

but remember, many here are trying to help you out, so being nice/courteous would be most beneficial for you. jsut some friendly advise. [/off topic]

MindBomber

Well then, since Sldrmedic has been given the answers he needs several times, I will go off-topic slightly as well and respond the criticisms.

I choose to not always word my posts delicately or go into extended length answers and explanations, as I feel that's not a good use of the limited time I have available to commit to answering peoples question. I could explain why KYB GR-2 are an unacceptable choice for lowering springs, what the results of the pairing would be, provided referenced sources to support my statements and suggest an alternative. If I chose to do that however, I would have the time to respond to one thread, rather than five.

The approach that is being taken is simply not beneficial or logical in any way whatsoever, and while it may not be what Sldrmedic wants to hear, it's what he should hear. Essentially, what he's doing is little better than cutting the springs, but he wants to go to the time of replacing every single part so clearly he wants to do it right. I'm simply trying to aid him in doing it right the first time, rather than have him waste quite a bit of money.

Sldrmedic is to stubborn to accept that advice however, so he's welcome to ignore it.

Now, let me address your post Scenemaker.

All excellent purchases, Eibach makes great quality parts and Energy Suspension is the best bushing manufacturer in the industry. Function 7 has always subcontracted ES to produce bushings for then, and Skunk2 recently went the same direction.

If you were not planning on aggressively tracking your car however, the camber kit would be unnecessary, because the drop and spring rates are mild enough that you would be able to get an alignment without them.

Don't ever waste money on strut tower braces if you're looking to improve performance, they are a passive chassis brace and they will be of very little benefit. Adding front and rear strut tower braces or a subframe brace would shave off up to one tenth of a second on an average lap time, if that.

I would recommend seriously considering a rear sway bar and subframe brace as your next mod, it makes a very significant difference. It's so unfortunate Honda didn't put an sort of rear sway on most EJs, making the subframe and LCAs a stumbling point that adds expense.

In the case of Sldrmedic, the LCAs he chose will hurt performance. Not nice to have in terms of function, but they look pretty I guess?

I think you corrected yourself later in the thread, but yes, KYB GR-2 will absolutely not work. Although the drop is not aggressive, the spring rate is significantly higher than stock.
I've worked on cars of the same era that every bolt as come free with relatively little effort, it's luck of the draw often times. The real key is soaking down the suspension with penetrating lube, and no WD-40 does not count, a couple times over the week preceding the job. A torch will help, but it won't make a world of difference unless you have oxy-oxy acetylene, and hardly any of us have access to that type of equipment. If it's just a small hand torch still use it, but it's not magical and will only make slight differences. Use Map gas, yellow bottle, it burns way hotter than propane, blue bottle.

Replacing every single bolt with Honda OEM, waste of money unless you have money to burn. Over 15 years the metal has likely not severely corroded or weakened in reality. I just replace any that are damaged during the removal process with a grade 8 from the parts store, if I send my girlfriend in to get they just give them to her free.

You're seriously over emphasizing the importance of an alignment and the drive ability of a car in advance of it. Yes, alignments are very important, and it would be wise to purchase lifetime alignments if you they're available to make sure everything is always in check. Towing or putting a car on a trailer would be silly though, tires don't wear that fast.

Haha yes, I agree to some extent.

You should have 48 hours worth of back-up vehicle time, but if it takes you a week to lower a car that's a sign you should just take it to a shop. It's really not that difficult, I could do it in an hour or two.

Scenemaker

I finished my build yesterday. Did you start yours yet? How did it go? For me, it was 14 hours of cutting, torching and general hell but nothing that wasn't expected. I didn't mention in my earlier post that one of the wheel studs broke off some time ago so that was also addressed, along with a few orings and gaskets under the hood. We did manage to sneak a new wheel stud in without taking the hub assembly apart. The rear suspension has never been apart and I live in Wisconsin so everything was rusted and seized up. We ended up just cutting the forks off the rear struts to make getting at the seized bushings easier. In the end it was all worth it. The test drive was smooth, my modified suspension has better ride quality than the worn out stock suspension did. Not an aggressive drop, but it looks good. We didn't mess with the camber much as I have an appointment for an alignment tomorrow. The only thing left to do is jack the front right up and fix the dust shield that is rubbing slightly on the rotor. I'll have some picks of the project with before and afters later today. Hope your project goes well.

sldrmedic

Ok, duely scolded, I did relent to the advice given to me here and returned the KYB GR-2 shocks and exchanghed them for KYB AGX adjustable ride shocks to go with my Eibach Pro Kit springs. I also ordered a 22mm sway bar for the rear with a frame brace. I do have the complete front and rear camber kit as the old parts are extremely worn anyway even though I agree I probably don't need them. I will be putting 195/50R15 tires on as well. I am replacing the rear LCA's with aluminum ones with PU bushings. Thank you for your advice. I do apologize for my responses to your concerns about my setup but originally I only wanted to know how I could set up the springs and shocks completely so that I didn't have to re-use any hardware from the original setup. Thanx again.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

If you don't mind me asking. How much were the AGX and Eibach springs?

Scenemaker

Well, pictures don't really do it justice. It is hard to see the difference but the front end previously had SI struts and springs and really sat up pretty high but here is the before and after.






Sorry for jacking your thread.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

It does look better. Need to go lower though.

MindBomber

sldrmedic

The KYB AGX struts were $414.oo through Summerlandautosport on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYB-AGX-Adju...item5d27f67e66

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Halfway to a decent set of adjustable coilovers.

Scenemaker

For what I am planning on doing, this is going to work out just fine. Daily driver, 1 event at Blackhawk Farms Raceway and a couple autocross events. I'm not after looks here. Sportlines would have lowered it more but if you knew what I paid for the Pro-Kit, you would have made the same choice.

Thanks, I'm happy with the results so far.

I'll let you in on a little secret now on what I paid for some of this...be ready to be disgusted...



Yeah...

Edit: I got the blox front camber for $160 from a local shop

Scenemaker

Sorry again for jacking your thread. I do want to say that the switch to the KYB AGX struts was a good move. It really depends on what you plan on doing with the car as to whether or not you need adjustable struts. For the same price or less you could have gotten the Eibach Pro-Kit Struts. Either one is a good choice in my opinion.

As for the original point of your thread, give us an idea of the overall condition under your car. Again, I have a Wisconsin kept car that has been in the family for years. Originally it belonged to a good friend of mine who had it for a few years and did not take very good care of it, then I bought it and sold it 6 months later to my parents. At that point (around 170k) the motor was rebuilt. Pretty much everything was done but the main bearings. After that, my brother got it as his daily driver/winter beater as a 2nd car. I recently reacquired the vehicle and the age is really beginning to show. It is rusty as **** underneath.

What is the story on yours? What is the condition? I can give you an idea of what we prepared for to go wrong with this job. We had expected everything except needing a bushing press. Go to autozone and rent (or borrow, whatever you wanna call it) a spring compressor and bushing press before you start.

Make sure you buy the rear lower strut bushings from Honda. Cost me around $25 for the set I think. The lower strut bushings we're completely seized up. We basically just used an acetylene torch to start the bushings on fire until they fell out, then cut a notch in the bushing casing so we could pop it out.

Also, the upper bolts for the camber kit were too short after installing the Eibach kit. Only got about 2 threads in and had to run to the hardware store last minute.

On the front, it wasn't too bad but it was all replaced a couple years ago with the SI stuff I mentioned. Even so, we used heat on the front upper control arm bolts so we didn't risk breaking off the welded nuts. Not that it's the end of the world if you do as you can just get new hardware. Which brings me to my next point, if you do get any hardware that is not OEM, make sure it is at least stainless steal.

The only item I wasted money on was the Energy Suspension Kit. I'll probably go back and replace some more of the bushings here and there just because I have it, but every bolt you take off could potentially open a can of worms. So in the end I used the top hat bushings on all 4 corners so get some of those whether it's energry, OEM, whatever and just because it's a no brainier if you have them, I used the strut bushings that go around the top hat. But my struts came with those as well, just not poly urethane. Other than that, I wasted the $140. I really wanted to use more of it, but ask anyone that has done a complete bushing kit on an older car, it sucks to do. BAD. Hopefully I get some time to do others soon. At this point, if anyone wants the rest of the kit I'd sell it off for $100.

That is all I can think of for now. Hopefully your car is in better shape and you won't have to deal with all of this, but if you have any questions, let me know. I'd be glad to help.