Low, Lumpy Idle At Stop Lights/Signs.
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Re: Low, Lumpy Idle At Stop Lights/Signs.
Someone left a rather broken 97 coupe at the shop today.... we all kinda freaked out that someone would bring a car that old to a dealership for anything other than a recall.
Among some other things....It needs an idle relearn after un-f**king a throttle problem, but someone has the radiator fan wired to run all the time--- so it cannot learn idle.
Among some other things....It needs an idle relearn after un-f**king a throttle problem, but someone has the radiator fan wired to run all the time--- so it cannot learn idle.
Un-related question: in your experience if, you check an engine's oil pressure with an oil pressure gauge tester and it's low is it more likely due to oil pump or worn-out internals (pistons, cylinder walls, etc..)?
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 11, 2016 at 07:24 PM.
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I can only guess why someone would have done this...
IDK what's gonna happen, owner is supposed to call back in the morning..
It also has the drivers door glass jammed up, out of the track and bent the regulator, tore up the run channel seal, stripped the hand crank...
AND the steel in the door under the door panel is ripped apart where the window frame attaches at the back edge. It really needs a whole door LOL.
There was an estimate made for just a few things, barely scratched the surface on all its problems.... that estimate probably totaled out the car on paper.
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I bet. To be an older civic owner (or any older car) better like or learn to DIY or can get expensive. I late-edited my prior post.. wasn't sure if you saw it.
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I late-edited my prior post.. wasn't sure if you saw it.
Un-related question: in your experience if, you check an engine's oil pressure with an oil pressure gauge tester and it's low is it more likely due to oil pump or worn-out internals (pistons, cylinder walls, etc..)?
Un-related question: in your experience if, you check an engine's oil pressure with an oil pressure gauge tester and it's low is it more likely due to oil pump or worn-out internals (pistons, cylinder walls, etc..)?
(FYI pistons and cylinder walls have zero correlation to oil pressure)
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My son's Mazda 3. Oil light blinking a couple times in the past three weeks. We replaced the sending unit after the first time oil light blinked but, it came back yesterday. Oil wasn't showing on dipstick the first time (3 wks ago). We filled it, got an oil change the next day and have been monitoring since. My son checked the oil right after oil light blinked yesterday and he said oil level was correct. We haven't performed an oil pressure check yet. Several threads point towards oil pump screen may be dirty/partially clogged.
In this video ETCG at 6:10 mark that it's usually the engine and not the oil pump:
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I just watched his other video (below) on oil pressure and now have a better understanding. Fortunately, at this point my son's engine isn't knocking.
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If it's been run really low of oil a few times, that's not promising.
Needs an engine? Google search seems to think they have some problems.
We had a 08ish turbo Mazdaspeed 3 or something like that on the lot, it smoked like a chimney after idling a few minutes.... only 30k on it. Fine automobile for sure.
What parts are involved with oil pressure? 95% pump and bearings.
Pump moves a volume of oil, pressure is built as the output flow is closed off. If bearing clearances get excessive, that's a leakage point to the hydraulic system and if it leaks faster than the pump can build pressure, that's a loss of pressure.
There's more involved than that though. Filter, pressure relief valve, other hydraulic items that rely on oil system pressure such as Hondas VTEC, and cam timing actuators, etc.
Needs an engine? Google search seems to think they have some problems.
We had a 08ish turbo Mazdaspeed 3 or something like that on the lot, it smoked like a chimney after idling a few minutes.... only 30k on it. Fine automobile for sure.
What parts are involved with oil pressure?
Pump moves a volume of oil, pressure is built as the output flow is closed off. If bearing clearances get excessive, that's a leakage point to the hydraulic system and if it leaks faster than the pump can build pressure, that's a loss of pressure.
There's more involved than that though. Filter, pressure relief valve, other hydraulic items that rely on oil system pressure such as Hondas VTEC, and cam timing actuators, etc.
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We're not sure. One issue is that oil dipstick sucks and hard to read even when performed per FSM. The first time I checked it after the first oil light, I checked it when engine was cold (didn't think to check FSM). We added oil and I learned a day later that the engine needs to be at operating temp then turn off engine, wait five minutes and check again. Even at that the oil never reads correctly on the front side of the stick..oil on the backside of it is always higher. The second oil light, checked oil level per FSM and it was fine. Others online stated same in some threads... which leads me to a possible oil screen clog or pump issue.
Well, it just got an engine: http://www.mazda3forums.com/61-power...et-breach.html
post# 1. The engine has a warranty from the junkyard for 30 days and the mechanic also gave a warranty on his work. Problem is the guy who did the work took over two weeks to complete the car after he installed the engine. He took almost five weeks in total. His initial estimate was $1600 and 10 days to repair.... His final bill was $2800 and 5 weeks. He stated on the bill his total labor was $400. He purchased the engine for $850 and he said is was still in junked car and running, compression tested it, leak-down tested, and oil pressure test and alll were good.
Initially he said he found an engine at a nearby LKQ that he does does a lot of business with. He said that engine had 68K miles, 1-year warranty and cost $450. He procrastinated and the engine sold to someone else.
I really can't tell if the dude is FOS or all this is just coincidence. He is a friend of my ex-wife's boyfriend and has repaired and performed body work on several of his cars.
I drove one last summer and couldn't keep the front wheels grounded..nasty wheel hop. Once past first gear a blast to drive.
Thanks for that fine explanation and all the time you put in helping people here. I've learned more from you directly or indirectly (other's issues) than any other resource.
Well, it just got an engine: http://www.mazda3forums.com/61-power...et-breach.html
post# 1. The engine has a warranty from the junkyard for 30 days and the mechanic also gave a warranty on his work. Problem is the guy who did the work took over two weeks to complete the car after he installed the engine. He took almost five weeks in total. His initial estimate was $1600 and 10 days to repair.... His final bill was $2800 and 5 weeks. He stated on the bill his total labor was $400. He purchased the engine for $850 and he said is was still in junked car and running, compression tested it, leak-down tested, and oil pressure test and alll were good.
Initially he said he found an engine at a nearby LKQ that he does does a lot of business with. He said that engine had 68K miles, 1-year warranty and cost $450. He procrastinated and the engine sold to someone else.
I really can't tell if the dude is FOS or all this is just coincidence. He is a friend of my ex-wife's boyfriend and has repaired and performed body work on several of his cars.
95% pump and bearings.
Pump moves a volume of oil, pressure is built as the output flow is closed off. If bearing clearances get excessive, that's a leakage point to the hydraulic system and if it leaks faster than the pump can build pressure, that's a loss of pressure. There's more involved than that though. Filter, pressure relief valve, other hydraulic items that rely on oil system pressure such as Hondas VTEC, and cam timing actuators, etc.
Pump moves a volume of oil, pressure is built as the output flow is closed off. If bearing clearances get excessive, that's a leakage point to the hydraulic system and if it leaks faster than the pump can build pressure, that's a loss of pressure. There's more involved than that though. Filter, pressure relief valve, other hydraulic items that rely on oil system pressure such as Hondas VTEC, and cam timing actuators, etc.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 11, 2016 at 09:52 PM.
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Installer sounds like a flake. A greedy, lazy flake.
A new-to-you used engine may have been just as good (bad) as your old used engine.
We see this in D17 engines that get replaced because they needed a head gasket job, only to discover the new used engine needs a head gasket job too. Because they all need it sooner or later.
Or like buying a used fuel pump for a Chevy anything because yours took a crap...the new used one is guaranteed to be just as good as your bad one.
I have no idea what common problems the MazFord engines have...I just know the ones I have seen recently are not real Mazda engines.
A new-to-you used engine may have been just as good (bad) as your old used engine.
We see this in D17 engines that get replaced because they needed a head gasket job, only to discover the new used engine needs a head gasket job too. Because they all need it sooner or later.
Or like buying a used fuel pump for a Chevy anything because yours took a crap...the new used one is guaranteed to be just as good as your bad one.
I have no idea what common problems the MazFord engines have...I just know the ones I have seen recently are not real Mazda engines.
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I've called him a couple times in past three weeks including linforming him of the oil light the first time it came on. Also, let him know abou the oil on the spark plug threads and th work we've done so far on it. He ensures me he'll make it right one way or another. I have my doubts.
Pulled salvage yard engines are a crap shoot. Looking back we'd probably been better off spending $500 or so more to get a new or rebuilt short block and brought the old cylinder head to a machine shop. I will say though that minus the possible oil consumption issue (still monitoring) the engine runs very well.
I think Mazda broke things off with Ford in 2012. I've owned two Mazda 3's... the first one I purchased new '07 2.0L A/T. Had 92K miles on it when totalled (son driving) The repairs I did were: passenger side motor mount and an hose that is part of the EGR system that when fouled the engine was hard to start after fueling. Both are common issues for that generation.
The current car is an '07 2.3L M/T which I purchased three years ago with 135K. Had a 192K when my son wrecked it. Before the wreck only repair done was the passenger side motor mount and it needed front struts at time of purchase... I bought a set of Koni (orange) STrt's which look and great IMO for 3's.
The common issue is my son's driving..lol.
I had no idea about the oil consumption problems some are experiencing and talked about on mazda forums. Both engines never leaked a drop or burned oil.
The current car is an '07 2.3L M/T which I purchased three years ago with 135K. Had a 192K when my son wrecked it. Before the wreck only repair done was the passenger side motor mount and it needed front struts at time of purchase... I bought a set of Koni (orange) STrt's which look and great IMO for 3's.
The common issue is my son's driving..lol.
I had no idea about the oil consumption problems some are experiencing and talked about on mazda forums. Both engines never leaked a drop or burned oil.
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Ezone: Concerning the Mazda 3 the oil consumption issue seems to point to leaking valve stem seals. Although, we don't see blueish smoke initially on cold starts there is:
1) Seemingly high oil consumption (no leaks)
2) Oil residue on intake manifold and intake side of cylinder head ports
3) Excessive (IMO) oil residue/gunk inside intake manifold
4) Blue-ish smoke from exhaust when downshifting (2500-3500 rpm)
5) Blue-ish smoke when revved while car is parked (2500 rpms and up)
I plan to check spark plugs tomorrow or Friday for wet, dark oil or carbon buildup.
Update: Pulled spark plugs today and no carbon, or oil residue.
1) Seemingly high oil consumption (no leaks)
2) Oil residue on intake manifold and intake side of cylinder head ports
3) Excessive (IMO) oil residue/gunk inside intake manifold
4) Blue-ish smoke from exhaust when downshifting (2500-3500 rpm)
5) Blue-ish smoke when revved while car is parked (2500 rpms and up)
I plan to check spark plugs tomorrow or Friday for wet, dark oil or carbon buildup.
Update: Pulled spark plugs today and no carbon, or oil residue.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 14, 2016 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Update
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Well, back to the Civic's idle issue. Checked ignition timing per FSM and the notch that someone marked on the distributor is spot on. Couldn't locate idle screw.. not sure it has one. Checking spark quality tomorrow.
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The 97 DX I had in the shop yesterday had the big screw on the firewall side of the throttle body, pointing straight up, but you had to move the air filter box base to find it. (filter box sat right on top of the throttle body)
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Adjustment: http://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-de...speed-2516993/
or http://my.prostreetonline.com/2015/0...ic-idle-speed/
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 15, 2016 at 03:11 AM.
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I'm starting to think this is a fairly repetitive (not constant) misfire instead of an idle issue that causes low rpms and lumpy idle. That's why I mentioned the coil or igniter earlier. When they are faulty may cause wierd idle issues. Would the CPK or CFK sensors be suspect? I'll check spark quality when I get a chance. Take a look inside cap and rotor. MPG's seem to be down.
I found this and reply #3 is interesting: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/11...e-low-rpm.html
I found this and reply #3 is interesting: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/11...e-low-rpm.html
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I'm starting to think this is a fairly repetitive
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I meant watch what the gauge does while the engine is doing the poor running thing.
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While idling in park or neutral tach is around 650 rpms and smooth without a/c compresor engaged. While idling in park or neutral it's around 650 rpms and smooth with a/c compresor engaged around 700 rpms.
In gear with brakes depressed normal (correct) idle is around 650. Maybe 50 rpms higher with a/c. However, sometmes (when erratic) while in gear and brakes depressed it drops to around 350 to 400 rpm's (no a/c). Maybe 50 rpms higher with a/c.
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How long will it stay that low, and does it set idle related codes? (too lazy to read through thread)
Oh hell, why not just throw a PCM at it and see if it sticks to the paint.
Oh hell, why not just throw a PCM at it and see if it sticks to the paint.
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In that thread I linked several people stated it was a head gasket issue. Mine is not having any signs of head gasket leak. Maybe I'll do a compresion tets and block test for a peace of mind.
If, i brought to a garage that has a professional level diagnostic machine could it catch an issue like this one?
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New or used PCM?
If, i brought to a garage that has a professional level diagnostic machine could it catch an issue like this one?
Not hopeful
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Not laughing.. with my luck it might have to happen.. Lol. JK.
Okay.
Allow me to take you on a trip down down memory lane that may or may not have something to do with the current issue. Last year when you were helping me through a head gasket replacement since, it was my first time doing one, it took me about a week or so to complete (some time also due to waiting on mail order parts). Long story short the cylinder walls developed some surface rust of which I cleaned off safetly from pistons 2 & 3 but, did not for 1 & 4. Why? you ask.. well, my thinking at the time was since pistons 1 & 4 were at the top of their stroke (even with top of block) I didn't think the walls would have enough air to cause rust because, the pistons were taking up that space.
Also, I was afraid to rotate the crank and clean 1 & 4 cylinder walls because, my noob mind thought (at the time) that it might mess up TDC if I did and create more issues. Looking back I can see that my thought process at the time was off the mark and that I should have brought it up here instead of being to embarrased to do so. From what I read afterwards (head assembled) that light surface rust shouldn't create an issue and would be knocked of quickly with piston motion and pressure. However, any friction can't be good.
Allow me to take you on a trip down down memory lane that may or may not have something to do with the current issue. Last year when you were helping me through a head gasket replacement since, it was my first time doing one, it took me about a week or so to complete (some time also due to waiting on mail order parts). Long story short the cylinder walls developed some surface rust of which I cleaned off safetly from pistons 2 & 3 but, did not for 1 & 4. Why? you ask.. well, my thinking at the time was since pistons 1 & 4 were at the top of their stroke (even with top of block) I didn't think the walls would have enough air to cause rust because, the pistons were taking up that space.
Also, I was afraid to rotate the crank and clean 1 & 4 cylinder walls because, my noob mind thought (at the time) that it might mess up TDC if I did and create more issues. Looking back I can see that my thought process at the time was off the mark and that I should have brought it up here instead of being to embarrased to do so. From what I read afterwards (head assembled) that light surface rust shouldn't create an issue and would be knocked of quickly with piston motion and pressure. However, any friction can't be good.
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I plan to make a video of idle/rpms while in:
1) Park w/o AC
2) Park w/ AC
3) Drive + Braking w/o AC normal idle
4) Drive + Braking w/ AC normal idle
5) Drive + Braking w/o AC normal idle low, lumpy idle
6) Drive + Braking w/ AC normal idle low, lumpy idle
As well as try to capture low, lumpy idle with vacuum gauge.
1) Park w/o AC
2) Park w/ AC
3) Drive + Braking w/o AC normal idle
4) Drive + Braking w/ AC normal idle
5) Drive + Braking w/o AC normal idle low, lumpy idle
6) Drive + Braking w/ AC normal idle low, lumpy idle
As well as try to capture low, lumpy idle with vacuum gauge.
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What I have stumbled on so far is the engine idles better in all scenarios with the headlights on. Related info: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...1102606AAdofcI
I had the battery and alternator checked at Autozone last week. Battery's voltage and cranking amps are in spec. Didn't test battery voltage under load or while engine was running.
Alternator putting out 14.2 volts (no load). Didn't check alternator's volts with increased load (headlights, A/C). I'll clean and tighten all chassis ground points as a start. I've checked them before but, did not find any loose grounds.
I had the battery and alternator checked at Autozone last week. Battery's voltage and cranking amps are in spec. Didn't test battery voltage under load or while engine was running.
Alternator putting out 14.2 volts (no load). Didn't check alternator's volts with increased load (headlights, A/C). I'll clean and tighten all chassis ground points as a start. I've checked them before but, did not find any loose grounds.
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Related info: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...1102606AAdofcI
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Today during an intermittent low idle I turned the headlights on and it idled better immediately and low idle didn't return as long as headlights were on. So, problem solved: I'll always drive with my headlights on night or day. Better idle, safer too. Why cure the illness when I can just put a band-aid on it...lol.
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So, where should I go from here: idle or misfire or other?
Does a substantial electrical load always equal higher idle and if so does that mean may base idle should be higher through idle screw adjustment?
ETCG has a list of possible idle solutions: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/sol...-idle-problems
Does a substantial electrical load always equal higher idle and if so does that mean may base idle should be higher through idle screw adjustment?
ETCG has a list of possible idle solutions: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/sol...-idle-problems
