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Hi,
I've done a lot of searching and reading but still have a couple small issues that i'm having trouble resolving.

First: Background
A couple of months ago my daughter called me late in the evening and needed to get her CIVIC hauled off of the side of the freeway. "It made a bad noise and just died" she told me.

I got the car towed to my house and anticipated needing to replace some valves under the assumption that she broke a timing belt and chewed up the valve train. Upon disassembly the real problem showed itself; she had blown the bottom end off of the #2 connecting rod.

A couple weeks later (and more than a dollar or three!) I've got the motor replaced with a re-manufactured long block and it is alive again, though not without some annoyances.

1. No AC
2. Idle problem

The AC should be easy. Somehow (quite by accident) the end of the red wire that provides power to the compressor got pulled out. Since I didn't intend to ever disconnect this; I'm not sure where it goes.

On the idle issue: I had a couple codes being set, one for the VTEC and one for the IAC. I cleaned the IAC, replaced the VTEC solenoid (that fixed an oil leak as well) and I performed the idel "re-learn" procedure (found that in a graphic on this site) and it doesn't set codes now and it seems to run much better when driving now.

What it still does is stumble at idle once it's in closed loop operation. It seems to be related to having an electrical load because it will do this when I turn on the lights, a turn signal or hold the break. I can, however, set the parking brake and let it idle in gear and it doesn't stumble.

One last thing ... when I put it back together the radiator cooling fan ran *all the time*. Looking carefully at the harness it looked to me as I had reversed the connectors for the sender on the VTEC solenoid and the sender on the thermostat housing. I swapped those and now the fan doesn't come on instantly with key on. What bugs me is that it hasn't run at all since then. I also notice that the lower radiator hose never gets hot.

The temp gauge doesn't indicate overheating ... am I OK here or should I be concerned?

 
Rep Power: 517

Compressor wire connects down low on the side of the fan shroud.

No idea about the stumble. Need a better description.
Does it idle too slow, or does it run bad?
Did you scrape the carbon off the screen in the IAC valve?


VTEC and fan switch wiring certainly would explain the VTEC code.

The car will take a real long time to run the fan, simply because of the location of the stat and fan switch. If there is any breeze at all, that might provide enough cooling to negate the need for the radiator fan for a long time.

 
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Thanks for the location on the wire. I've been poking around near the top.

On the idle: As best I can describe it...

When you start the car it runs as expected and idles smooth. Once it gets warm enough to go into closed loop it will idle fine with no load but will fall to 300-400 rpm and possibly stall when you come to a stop.

I can set the parking brake and put it in gear and it will idle fine (~800 rpm) but it will drop and run rough when I turn on the headlights, hit the brake or turn on a signal (the stereo might do it also but I haven't turned that on since I'm trying to hear things.)

If it doesn't stall it will recover and idle normally again after 10 to 20 seconds.

 
Rep Power: 517

Sounds like the base idle speed is still too low.

I'd first clean the throttle plate and throttle body bore thoroughly and see if that helps.
Then see if I can raise the base using the IAB screw if necessary (if equipped).
If it can't, then there is more cleaning to do, take apart some of the throttle body to clean goo out of the air passages.


Here's a bulletin (PDF) with some of the info in it
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...67720277,d.aWw

 
Rep Power: 0

I'll give that a shot.

Now that the AC is working it didn't stall at all, but that's probably just hiding the symptom.

 
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Well... nothing ever fixed the idle problem.

Yesterday... after driving it to the store she came home then went out a few minutes later and it wouldn't start. No codes... just won't fire. Kind of sounded like a coil to me so I replaced that (some people have implicated a failing coli in relation to rough idle when warm so I hoped I was killing two birds) ...

Turns out that I didn't kill any. I just wasted $75 because it still won't start.

I'm beginning to really hate this stupid car. If I hadn't spend so much on it already I would tell her to gt rid of it.

 
Rep Power: 517

Some testing could have proven it as likely good or bad without needless replacement.

 
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It wouldn't start because the cylinders were full of water.

I just put a new head gasket in. I'll finish putting it back together tomorrow. I'm still hoping the coil will take care of the other problem. I did a visual inspection of the head and didn't see anything wrong with it. I know that there are lots of ways it can be compromised that aren't visually obvious but, frankly; if it needs more than a head gasket It's likely to be a parts car soon anyway cause a 97 Civic isn't worth the kind of money we're dropping on it.

I'll know more tomorrow.

Nice to have a reman motor cough up a head gasket after about 2500 miles.

 
Rep Power: 517

No warranty? Not a reputable builder?

Did it get overheated since it was replaced? Overheating can kill even the best built new engine. Not warrantable IMO.



Did you have a machine shop check that the head is flat? A warped head won't seal and you might be doing the job all over again.

 
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They won't honor the warranty since I installed the motor.
I can't say for sure that it didn't overheat. Not my car. It's my daughter's car so I don't know everything it has been through. lol

I didn't get the head checked because if it needs that much I am through tossing good money after bad and it's going to be sold as a parts car.

I do recognize the point and I'm not complaining that you made it; just tired of throwing money at a junk car.

 
Rep Power: 517

Was this from a nationally known reputable rebuilder, or some local place?

Wow.

You apparently thought this was a decent enough car to toss an entire reman engine at it......but not a decent enough car to try to make sure this engine will live?


Figuring out if the head is warped gives a lot of valuable information about what happened....
I've only seen heads warp from one cause: Overheating.

A warped head won't seal and it will lose the new head gasket in short order.


What took out this head gasket? Head gaskets don't just die in 2500 miles for no reason.
Overheated? Someone didn't tighten the head bolts?

Was the head warped before or after you got the engine? (Hard to tell that one, I know.) If the rebuilder was really reputable...bla bla bla
(But I know exactly why they won't honor a warranty if a DIYer installs it.)

Was the engine really rebuilt....or was it a "spray and pray" (used engine painted up to look nice)? Was it spotless inside?

 
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Place called AAAEngine in California.

I'll fix it... I just get frustrated and blow off steam.

That or it was bad when we got it. Either way.. I'm going to need a head for it.


Could be either.

The pistons and cylinder walls looked good when I pulled the head off.

After putting the new gasket in and reassembling it ran but not real well. It was throwing misfire codes for 2 and 4. A new set of plugs cleared up #2 but not #4. It was running on 3. At this point it had been returned to the way it was running before if blew the head gasket.

Pulled all the plugs and got compression from all 4:

1. 151
2. 152
3. 150
4. 31

...... 31.. 31? .... OK. That's pretty telling.

Is there a fairly straight forward way to tell for sure that it's a bad head and not a bad ring? Based on it having blown a head gasket I'm inclined to lean towards the head being cockeyed but that's kind of supposition.

 
Rep Power: 517

Low compression on #4.
First, pull the valve cover off and see if the valves are improperly adjusted.
Then recheck compression again after correcting the valve clearances.

A "wet compression test" can be done to evaluate rings.

If compression is still lower than expected, then do a cylinder leakage test: Apply air pressure to the cylinder (@TDC with valves closed) and figure out where the air pressure is escaping from/to: Intake manifold? Exhaust pipe? Crankcase? Cooling system?


A machine shop should be able to tell if the head can be saved/rebuilt or not.

 
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Thanks. I'll start there. That I can do today. That last one sounds tricky, but I'll play it by ear (so to speak.)

What does that typically cost?

 
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I checked the valve adjustment and had 009/008 on the intake and 010/009 on the exhaust

I then pulled all the plugs, put 2 caps of oil down #4 and got 148psi but also heard a "clunk" so I released the pressure on the gauge and got nothing this time. I checked the other 3 (to be sure my gauge hadn't broken) and got good numbers for them.

Am I correct in diagnosing that a bad compression ring just went completely south?
Are there other conditions I can suspect from those symptoms?
Could a blown head gasket have caused this (since water doesn't compress)?

 
Rep Power: 517

Pressurizing the cylinder is probably the quickest/easiest way to prove where the leakage is going (in the shop).

But your wet compression test is rather telling.

Call and find out.

For reference, I would have done the wet test across all the cylinders and note results. That way I know how much compression the 'good' cylinders gained and compare to the bad one.

Possible. Did compression drop to zero?

The results of testing things you cannot see, makes you create theories, and leads you to likely suspects.

You find out for certain when you tear it all apart and figure out what you really have broken. Then you theorize how it got that way.



I can picture some horrible messes I have seen in the past..... Cylinder is now oversized but builder reinstalled stock size piston?

All I know for sure is you have low compression on a cylinder. The air pressure check would tell me about the valves and their ability to seal.
No IMO, hydrolocking a running engine can cause connecting rods to bend and break.....and a bent rod will cause low compression too.
Low compression--- but at the same time low leakage if the piston is still straight in the hole.

You said this problem was present prior to the head gasket blowing at 2500 miles?

A broken ring(s) at 2500 miles would be most likely due to improper assembly IMO.

IF it broke a ring, the piston and cylinder wall may or may not be damaged/gouged. You'll have to inspect thoroughly.


Did you google prior to purchasing? This was 2nd on the list: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/AAAengine/Chatsworth-California-91311/AAAengine-Poor-quality-motor-rebuilds-and-even-poorer-customer-service-Chatsworth-Calif-1100627




Drop in a running, used engine for cheap?

 
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It had the rough idle from the point where put it in. I've done too much guessing already. I didn't check the compression at that time.

No, I didn't Google ahead of time (add that to my list of sins here) but that report is pretty much what I have experienced.

I'll need to tear it apart and find out for sure, I guess. I'm not calling AAAEngines back. I already know I'll get nothing useful from them beyond more aggravation.

When doing the leak down ... I can figure out that I need it TDC on the compression stroke and pressurize it with my compressor, but how will I tell where it's going? Just listen?

 
Rep Power: 517

See/hear/feel etc. Use your senses.
You use some of the 5 senses that God gave you, I'll sit here and use my 6th sense (ESP).



Ok,
Put the valve cover back on.
Take off the radiator cap---just in case there is leakage into the cooling system.

Apply air pressure to the cylinder.

The flow rate of air pressure leakage can be really low, sometimes I have to use my nose to sense air movement......Like I might have to stick my nose all up in the tailpipe before I can sense any air movement with the nostril hairs.

If it's leaking into the intake, that's usually easy to hear and feel through a vacuum hose/port.


If it's leaking into the crankcase, you should be able to sense air movement from the breather vent tube.

NOTE: All cylinders will have some amount of leakage past the rings. You need to test all 4 in order to discern whether or not the bad one is leaking more than the others.

HTH

 
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Makes sense... I've applied enough "stupid" to this endeavour already so I wanted to make sure I was listening now.

 
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Update: The total lack of compression on the second test was a bad compression tester. Got a new one and tested 155 for 1,2, and 3 and 35 for 4

I hooked up air to #4 and it blew right back in my face! lol .. I chased things down a bit and discovered that with 1 & 4 at TDC putting air pressure into #4 resulted in air blowing back out of 2 & 3.

If I put the plugs in 2 & 3 the air bleeds down a little slower and seems to be escaping via the air cleaner.

I'm reasonably confident that I have 1 or more bad intake valves in #4. I'll know better after I tear it down. That's probably next weekend.

 
Rep Power: 517

Did you pop the valve cover off and verify all 4 of those #4 valves (rocker arms) have clearance, and double check test results again?

If you have good valve clearance and it still has leakage, then yank the head off.

 
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Yeah, I did everything with the valve cover off. I verified the lash on all 16 valves twice. Clearance ran from 5 to 12 so they are not exactly dialed in, but none are being held open.

I just don't think I can tell any more without getting the head off.

 
Rep Power: 517

Did you figure out whether or not that piston needs to come out to inspect the rings? If you need to do it, the time to do so is while the head is off.

 
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After almost 5 weeks the machine shop finally called back ... :P
It seems the head is fine. He did clean it up and put new seals in for me.

That doesn't make sense to me in the light of what I found earlier.

I'll talk to him when I pick it up and see if anything was lost in translation.

 
Rep Power: 517

Maybe they meant it "was fixable"????

But you really needed to know if there WAS a problem there causing the low compression....Right? Burned valve, carbon holding one open, something.

 
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When I picked it up I asked him about it. He said he didn't find anything wrong with it. He did clean it up real good and put new seals in it. I suppose it is possible that there was something keeping a valve just slightly open and it's OK now, but that seems like a pipe dream. lol

I'm going to recheck the valve lash and put it back together and see what I've got here. If #1 is still low compression then it kind of has to be a bad compression ring (though why that would cause air to escape through the intake is beyond me!). I know how to fix that but now my daughter just wants to sell t and my wife wants it out of her car port. :P

I'm rather loath to not finishing something I started but I think I'm getting out voted here.

Thanks for all the help here. I probably haven't fixed the problem but I have learned some things and that, in itself, has value.

I'll post the results after reassembly.