nightsurge

Hello all, FIRST POST!

Let me give you a brief history. I bought this 97 Civic LX, Manual, as the second owner just about 1 year ago. It ran pretty smooth, had 131,000 miles, but needed some suspension work so I went ahead and had that taken care of. It still needs a few minor things like new outer CV boots and some new control arm bushings in the front, but I will wait till Tax Rebate time for that stuff.

Anyways, here are the symptoms I have been experiencing:

In cold weather, particularly when I start the car in the morning or evening after sitting a long time, I get some white smoke out of my exhaust. This lasts for maybe 15-20 seconds then it clears up. Also, on startup the idle RPM is at 1500-1800, but then it goes down after a minute or two of driving to below 1000RPM at idle.

At the same time, in cold weather, my car shifts rather stiffly and the entire car/engine seems to shake in first gear out of idle. In second gear I get a slight shudder as if the clutch or tranny is slipping. However, after about 5 minutes of driving and the car engine has warmed up, these symptoms also go away and the car shifts smoothly again.

During the summer, all these symptoms are non-existant with the warm weather. I am wondering if it is actually a tranny/clutch issue, or if the engine itself has some seals that are warped and shrinking when the cold weather roles around. I do commute at high speeds 70-75MPH each day to work and have a 70 mile round trip each day. The only other symptom I have is that my car burns oil. After about 1,500 miles I have to replace 2-3 qts of oil into it.

With my limited experience in cars, all these symptoms make me think it may just be a bad seal somewhere so my internal oil leak is causing the car to shift roughly and smoke until the leaked fluid is burned out of the system?

What I have tried so far:

I have used the quick engine fix/repair fluids you can buy and they seem to temporarily improve my symptoms but only for a week or two maybe. This car is purely a drive it till it dies commuter car for me since I drive so much during the week so I am not looking to spend much on a fix. I was wondering if maybe the Lucas Oil transmission fix fluid would help my manual transmission/clutch at all or if that would be a waste. If it turns out to be a transmission issue, the car is gone. Maybe even a clutch issue as that would still cost me $400-600 to repair. I am looking for $300 or less in repairs just so I can make this car last another year or so and then I can move on to my next $3000-4000 commuter car.

If you need any more details or have any ideas on what it could be, let me know!!

ezone

Fast idle is normal and proper for a cold engine. Also can be normal immediately following almost any startup, as long as it settles down to a normal range at operating temperature.

How long this "smoke" hangs in the air should indicate if it is really smoke or if it is only steam. Steam/vapor/fog is absolutely normal in many conditions because water is a byproduct of combustion.

Smell of the "smoke" might be another indicator of what it is too.
Coolant? Gasoline? Lawnmower?

Would you recognize if the engine had a miss?
This sounds like a dead cylinder, even if only for a brief period after a start.
Shouldn't be, unless you have a chattering clutch and you are slipping it.


Bad move. You need to fill it back up at every quart loss, not wait until it is 3 quarts low. This may have already cost you an engine, you just don't know it yet.
If it is too inconvenient to check and fill the oil at every other tankfull of gas, you got issues.


I'm going to recommend you have someone that KNOWS cars see what is going on. You are too far off base for me to think you will be able to discern some of the things I need to know more about.
Have them verify if the engine has a dead miss when first started, then figure out why that is happening.




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Then there is this option: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/p...32-post10.html

Post video if you do this.

nightsurge

See my replies in bold red above.

Thanks for your response.

ezone

Ok so you have some experience with nuts and bolts. That would be great if you can tell what parts need replaced to solve these issues right now.
But if you can't tell whether or not the engine has a misfiring cylinder by how it acts, then you need to get someone that can identify these things.
I'm pretty technical in explanations but if you can't follow along then you probably aren't going to have much success in diagnosing without errors (expensive) along the way.
Same for describing what is going on with the car. I think in technical terms, and I can only read your written words here.

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Your car really sounds like it may have a multitude of issues, or your descriptions and associations are lacking. Example: in cold weather, my car shifts rather stiffly and the entire car/engine seems to shake in first gear out of idle. In second gear I get a slight shudder as if the clutch or tranny is slipping. However, after about 5 minutes of driving and the car engine has warmed up, these symptoms also go away and the car shifts smoothly again.
I can't tell if there is one problem or three here.
I can't tell if the problem is with the engine running on 3 cylinders, if the shifter handle is binding, or if the fluid in the trans is the wrong type. Or if the clutch chatters.
Or if this is just more symptoms caused by the main problem.

Ya dig? Seems like you ought to have someone that knows more (experienced in these matters) give it a listen and a drive, get their opinions.
Actually experiencing how the car drives in various conditions tells me more than you can type here.

Start here:
Does the engine have a miss upon a cold start?
Figure out which cylinder is misfiring. Live test while it is missing to determine this (Cylinder contribution checks.)
Then maybe.....Pull spark plugs and inspect. This may tell a whole lot of story about what has been going on inside. Post pics if you do this, maybe I can tell something from that.
I might even say to fire the engine up and then shut it off before it stops misfiring (if that is what it is really doing). Then pull the plugs out. The oddest looking plug may be from the worst cylinder. (For all I know.)

I'm starting to suspect coolant is getting in a cylinder after sitting for 4+ hours, this can cause miss because the plug got wet.
Or maybe there will be heavy ash deposits. White crusty buildup on the electrodes.

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The engine only holds 3.5 quarts of oil (that's what it takes during an oil change). If the engine was 3 quarts low, that is serious.
Many parts inside the engine rely upon splash lubrication. (Piston rings, for one thing.)
Low oil level severely reduces lube flow to those parts that rely upon splash lube.
This results in accelerated wear (and damage).
These parts rarely recover from this damage.
This wear and damage causes even more oil consumption at an even faster rate than before.
Every time the oil is allowed to get that low.



Liken this to your body only holding about 5 pints of blood.
Drain 4 pints out.
See how far you can run.



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If the exhaust smoke is BLUE, it is probably oil burning --- usually due to worn piston rings.
You said rubber burn smell, many people associate that with the oil smoke from the exhaust.

But if it is misfiring, it might be something else making the smoke. It could be related to the cause, or it could be related to the effect. Gotta know more about why it is misfiring first.

FWIW, "clutch chatter" refers to a slip/stick type of action between the friction lining of the clutch disc and the steel surfaces it rides between. Happens in rapid succession.
The chatter can shake the entire drivetrain or even the entire car, and ONLY happens while the clutch is in a slip mode.
This is the only condition that a chatter can happen under.
Can be caused by uneven surfaces (high spots) or might be caused by contaminated linings, or maybe hard spots/heat checking in the steel.

Sad.
These cars can last a long time with proper care.

nightsurge

Thank you, ezone for all the replies. You have actually made me feel better about the car considering I was originally leaning towards a tranny problem or clutch problem. Perhaps the clutch might still be related, perhaps not.

Since posting this thread the car has not done the "shake the entire car while accelerating in first gear from idle" again.

I am going to have someone check my tranny fluid because I have heard from one of my mechanic friends as well that they may have used some wrong fluid which is acting up in the cold weather.

I will also be sure to stay on top of the oil better now. I had thought it had a 4-5 qt limit, but I guess that is silly of me since this is a smaller 4 banger engine. I should have just checked online

As for the last portion. The only reason this car is a "drive it till it dies" for me is because I purchased it for $1000 and it was in bad shape. I took it to a few shops and one shop even tried to tell me I should scrap it and that it was unsafe to drive down the road! That was a dealer though, so I went to my more trusted shop and they gave me a better quote and said only a few things were in major need of repair. That's when I had some suspension work and brake work done. I took the risk on this car because I know what they can do if given a little love. I figured if I had to put $1000-1500 in repairs it was still well worth it! I owned a 95 civic hx before this one that made it to 220k miles before I traded it in when I bought my Mustang. Then I started a new job that was a long commute and had to sell the stang and returned to the car model that I had trusted and loved before.

So it was def my bad for not staying on top of the oil situation and I will correct that going forward. I'll see if I can take it to a mechanic my family trusts to see if he'll look at it. He charges $40 but I'm sure that's worth it if it can answer a lot of these questions.

ezone

About the only thing anyone can check is whether or not it is full of fluid. Average Joe can't tell WHAT fluid is in it.
Fluid that is too "thick" will definitely cause it to be stiff to shift intil the fluid id warmed up a bit.

Probably easier to just drain it and refill with the correct fluid. That way there should be no question about (at least) that part of it.

nightsurge

Sounds good, I'll just do that myself. Do I need to order Honda MTF somewhere special or is it available at auto parts stores generally?

ezone

Correct fluid should always be available at any Honda dealer.
You will KNOW it is correct that way.
No questions.


You probably only need 2 quarts to fill it.