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Ok, I need some help choosing

Assuming that all power needs will be met,

3 JL 10W1 or
2 JL 10W3

Whatcha Think???

 
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if you insist JL's 2 12W3's

What makes you want 10's?..

 
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The install area I am working in is too shallow for 12's. I really would like 12's but the dimensions seem to be to shallow.

I am wanting to do the spare tire area install. SO if it is not too deep, GREAT just let me know.

 
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and you say JL like it is a bad thing.

What brands would you recomend?

 
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the mounting depth of the 12's isn't even an inch more than the 10's..

I'm not a huge fan of JL subs because they are still a bit outdated tech wise. They are a good losid sub..but nowadays there's so many other options for the same price or less out there...

What's your budgett for the subs?

 
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it dont matta what a sub is made outta, nor when it was made, nor when the technology was invented.... nor its efficiency [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

if a sub sounds good, it sounds good. period

 
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But will it sound good playing at 140DB's [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..will it still have sifficient low end response at loud levels..or will it like msot subs be limited by it's excurstion to prodocing about 116-120DB's in can at 20hz [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. Will it look good while sounding good.. will it sound better to your wallet. Will it need a HUGE enclosure to sound good. Will it handle the power I wanna put through it?...lol. The list goes on and on and on..

 
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if you can make 2 10w3 sound "good" and hit 140, id be very, very surprised.

of course, thats assuming he was looking for 140 in an SQ box. if he wanted that, he may as well go for an IDmax with 1 kilowatt of power [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

Id also be surprised greatly if you could make those 10's get a good response at 20 Hz without a huge ported box.


you cant change teh rules liek taht, thats like me trying to play a 150 Hz tone out of my 15" tempest in my ported box tuned to 23 Hz. you cant ask me to do that, its not what it was designed to do. try making a fair comparison, and maybe you have ground to stand on.

 
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A Fair Comparison would be that a similarly prices Audiomobile EVO will handle more power..have nmore Excursion.. more low end impact, equal if not better sound quality..and look cool [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. there's always options.. and an IDMAX will break low 140's with 500wrms in a well deadened civic [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
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similarly priced? evo is like $180......if you pay $180 for a 10w3, you are a fool........

 
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EVO 10 is $169... List on a 10W3 is a bit more.. online they sell from $130-169 that I've seen..

 
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if you can get a 12w6 for $160 each at a shop, you had damn well better find a 10w3 for less.....hell, my local shop you can get them for $100 each.....(10w3 that is)

edit: sorry, $120

 
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with a special discount..JL's LAP in the US for a 10W3 is $159. MSRP is $189. Shops generally sell them for $160. Unless your a friend or have a discount or whatnot. In Canada the price on the W3's dropped a little but on;y $10 CAD...

 
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he walked into teh shop one day, walked out with those for $320.

and my own shop is still sellign them for $120.......

 
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Cool...

 
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I have a budget for the subs up to $600

 
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$600?? jeez! why settle for 10w3 then?

hell, you could get a PAIR of brahma for that!

 
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Right now I only have a PPI 400 watt amp. So inside these power constraints what would the best.
Model #, Company, and where can I find 'em.

 
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so? you can always upgrade the amp later....

if you have a budget of $600 for subs, get what SUBS you WANNA run, then just use that 400 watt amp till your ready to get a new one.

my tempest sounded fantastic with 250 watts. it only got louder when i finally put 600 to it [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

shop around and get the subs you want, now what will work with the equipment you already have. a pair of subs can be had for FAR less than $600......

a single brahma 15 would run less than $400, and installed in teh spare tire well with teh magnet out like a giant tower would be a fantastic looking install!

idmaxes also would be a good sub to have, a single sub in a little over 2 cubes sealed, same deal as the brahma install, would look fantastic.

there are many other subs out there that will suit you, too.

if you INSIST on keeping that amp, and JUST getting subs for the equipment you have, I would reccommend a shiva. it will only cost you $125 shipped, and in 2 cubes sealed in teh spare tire well (cone facing out, of course) will keep yoru entire trunk and give you nice warm base, much deeper and lower than any JL 10 can play.

 
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a Shiva would be nice..but if your budget is that high a pair of audiomobile EVO' 12's in 1cu.ft sealed each would bump and sound great. Don't think 400 Watts isn't much.. the difference between 400 watts and 1000 watts is 3.66 Decibels...Not really a night and day difference.

 
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how can you say that...there are way too many factors involved to say that........

 
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Given the same setups..same equipment..400 watts to a BA pro 12.5LF sealed and 400Wrms to a JL 15W3 in 7.5 cubes tuned to 45hz is about 10-12DBs'..

Also limited by the subs excursion and power compression..and current draw... but provided all factors are the same 400Wrms-1000Wrms warrants a 3.66db gain or so....It's one of those extremely well know general rules that doubling the power gains you 3 db's given all other factors are the same.. as does using said 400wrms on a pair of identical 12's as opposed to a single 12 will yield a 3db gain...

What did I miss.. enlighten the entire car audio community with your genius [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..

 
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what? did this become a question somewhere?

alright, the much more serious error here is not that there isnt 100% efficiency between doubling power and getting 3 dB, is that you canNOT double woofers and get 3db. in fact, you would not get any SPL increase at all.

assuming 100%efficiency (which never happens in teh real world) you are doubling the area, yes, but are halving the excursion since you are now sharing 400 watts among twice as many subs. so, to really get that 3 dB increase (assuming 100% efficiency) is to both double woofers AND double power.

JUST doubling power only guarantees a 3 dB increase if the woofer has twice the xmax you are already pushing it to go before mechanical failure.

 
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Dude..same power, 400wrms to one 12" woofer Mechanically able to handle said power. say 90DB's. Add a second woofer with the same 400 watt power supply. 93DB's. Back to 400Wrms. 2 woofers sharing the 400Wrms 93DB's 2 12" subs each getting 400Wrms=96DB's Increasing power to 2 drivers sharing 800Wrms= 99DB's. Given power compression or driver limits. it may be a 0-15% variance. so possibly on the far end. that setup may only produce 98DB's..

Check with Dik Klark on this one [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
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i cant argue with you on that one cause i cant understand what you said. from teh way i am reading what you said you just contradicted yoruself. I must be reading it wrong.

what i can understand tho, is NOT right at all. could you please restate?

 
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I'll put in point form for you.

400Wrms
1 driver
90DB's

400Wrms
2 Drivers
93Db's

800Wrms
1 driver
93db's

800Wrms
2 Drivers
96 Db's

800wrms
3 drivers
99db's (Pending cancellation)

Doubling the power yields a 3 Decibel gain, provided the driver has enough mechanical excursion to support the gains.

Adding a second driver to the same power supply increases piston area doubles output.

This is why 15" Subs are more efficient than 10" subs given the exact same power. More piston area.

 
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i already explained why #2 was wrong, and we are also assuming here that #1 is right, and that there is 100% efficiency.

the only one of those statements that is right is #3.

and even assuming that #4 was right, how can you add JUST one more driver two two already and getting 3 ADDITIONAL dB?

there are some laws of physics being broken here, which i have already explained ^^^^^

edit: here is the corrected chart:

400Wrms
1 driver
90DB's

400Wrms
2 Drivers
90Db's

800Wrms
1 driver
93db's

800Wrms
2 Drivers
93 Db's

 
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Rabbit...

I Know that you know quite a bit..in some cases more than I do..in some not.. this is one of the Not's....this is VERY basic car audio...seriously..check this up with RIchard Clark..or anyone else who's considered a real expert...

 
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if it is so simple, why cant you explain it to me? I already understand these very basic laws of physics. I have already explained them to you in an above post, which you have not corrected in any way, nor have stated WHY your numbers are correct. then you call me flat out wrong, after I have explained HOW it works.

so PLEASE, since I agree that this is VERY basic electronics/physics information, explain in detail how adding two subs and doubling the power equals a 9 dB increase?

because im starting to think that you cant. because in this case, i am absolutely right.

 
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I Corrected myself in the last one DOuble the drivers and double the power warrant a 6DB Increase not 9...

Extra driver..3DB's..Double power...3 more DB's... By your explanation of electronics/physics a 15" Woofer would be less sensitive than a 10" woofer because of the weight..goven 1 watt it would have to move more mass. Same deal for the 1 watt 1 sub 90DB's. 1 watt 2 subs 93DB's more displacement.

I'm not a Physics major nor have I attended college so can't give you formulas here...but I'll bet you $20 I'm right [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..