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About 2 months ago I bought a 2004 D17A2 (Canadian 2-door Si coupe) with the CEL on and an exhaust leak. Only code on the OBD-2 was P0134 -- simle fix I thought ... I was wrong!

First I replaced the exhaust gasket, then erased the code and it came back within a minute. Next, I installed a new O2 sensor (DENSO universal 4 wire) making sure the wires were correct from the sensor to the OEM connector. Still throwing P0134 after 2 minutes of driving! I bought the shop manual. Even though I don't have the P0135 code, I went through the troubleshooting algorithm suggested for the case in which both p0134 and p0135 come up and came across something weird -- the voltage across pins 3-4 on the male connector side of the primary O2 sensor (A/F sensor) had a voltage of 9.6 (batt voltage was 12 something). At that point, the book recommends having the ECM updated.

I took it to the Honda dealership. It cost $74.39 for the ECM/PCM update. Driving away, the CEL came back on within 5 minutes. I re-scanned when I got to my shop and still have P0134.

I visually checked all the fuses after reading this (but I don't know which fuse to investigate).

Other info: I tried adding AmsOil P.I. (gasoline additive concentrate) as recommended by a parts guy *and* a tech at the Honda dealership after telling my story ... obviously no dice.

*after* I bought the car, I upgraded the exhaust with a Megan header and MagnaFlow cat-back. I even tried clearing the P0134 code and trying the O2 sensor in the header (with the stock primary HO2S boss plugged off). I also added an AEM cold air intake.

I'm looking for ideas or knowledge about what has worked from people who have experienced my problem or people who know this car better than I do. Apparently nobody at the Honda dealership can fix it. I was told about a "similar" TSB on the '05 Si, but that was for the secondary sensor.

Any help would be appreciated. I visually checked the wiring harness from the O2 sensor connector back to the fusebox and can't see anything abnormal. When I took out the air cleaner housing and resonator, everything looked original except the PCV valve and hose. The car has 213,000 kms.

I've read the posts that advise using the OE sensor, but I think I have a problem with too much resistance between pins 3-4 on the connector side (so paying $260 for a sensor could be a waste). I should also add that the shop manual states "resistance between 1 - 10 ohm? OK" but it had been revised. Anything more than 3 ohm (or 3. something, I can't remember exactly) suggests a problem.

 
Rep Power: 518

2nd problem: You should have paid them to diagnose the first problem.

I see what we are dealing with here. Maybe you shouldn't have them diagnose it.
(Note to self: Buy stock in Amzoil.)



First: I'd throw away your parts and install a factory LAF (A/F) sensor.
In the correct location.

 
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I have the same problems, have CEL on, the vehicle have no acceleration have shitty gas mileages the vehicle eat up the gas quick, it's not 02 sensor, I bought the universal 02 sensor from autozone, hook it up to the original harness not worth it. The 02 sensor is not the problem, take out the original 02 sensor and clean it with WD-40. The OBD-2 it give you just random code, it also run a code for MAP sensor, I bought that from the dealer and replace it, that is not the problem either. Those technician work for the dealer don't know that much about electrical shitness even those they said they are certified. I brought my vehicle in and out of the dealer so many times, it some bullshit. How many miles on your vehicle? The owner before you drive rough? The problem of my vehicle turned out to be timing belt skip a tooth, don't drive around if your timing belt skip a tooth, hope that the whole internal don't bend if its does the vehicle needs a whole new motor. Timing belt, tensioner and water pump is important. I learned from experience!

 
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What would your advice be if I replaced it and still got the P0134 code?

I'm tempted to bite the bullet and pay ($267.12 + tax) for a Honda sensor (even though it's also manufactured by DENSO like the universal one I got for $55.60) but I don't know for sure if it will solve the problem and I can't return it once it's installed

At this point I have 2 options: troubleshoot till I've exhausted every possible reason for P0134 being the single and only recurrent code when scanned (then shell out for the OEM sensor anyway) ... or, buy the OEM sensor tomorrow and see.

 
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I think our problems are different: I get only 1 code. Either way, I think I'd know if my timing was out. It probably runs a little rich (turned the SS header purple already) but I get over 500 kms out of a tank and the idle is fairly smooth (for a SOHC Vtec) ... not perfect like the LX I had before, but smooth. Just not very powerful (limp mode, right?)

 
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Go back to your oem 02 sensor, just clean the 02 sensor, 02 sensor is not the problem, check your MAP sensor, if the MAP sensor work perfectly fine than check your Timing Belt, and Tensioner. If the vehicle have over due timing belt kits replacement base on mileages. It time to replace your timing belt with other parts including with it. Like timing belt kits, water pump, tensioners, crankshaft seal,camshaft seal,AC / alternator belt,power steering belt,Valve Cover gasket and Spark plug tube seals. These parts might needs to replace since while you at it. Don't want to wait until your timing belt break and replace by that time the internal of engine is bend, the whole new motor needs to replace. Its just a recommendation don't take my word for it.

 
Rep Power: 518

Yup.
Sounds like you got the oil changer kid, because everyone with a shoebox full of tools has the exact same abilities, knowledge, and talent.


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What would your advice be if I replaced it and still got the P0134 code?

Learn how it works, learn what it takes to set this code, then diagnose why.



I'm tempted to bite the bullet and pay ($267.12 + tax) for a Honda sensor (even though it's also manufactured by DENSO like the universal one I got for $55.60)

You got 3 strikes in a row with only one part. Congrats.

Denso makes spark plugs too. So what?
Does that make their spark plug the same thing as their O2 sensor?


You said you bought an O2 sensor. (I am using this as my sole source of info about your part.)
It is wrong.
I don't give a Fark HOW cheap you got it, it is still wrong.
You want to screw a Denso spark plug in the exhaust?
It's cheaper yet. Still just as wrong, if not more wrong.
(I am looking at US info here, EX car, same thing)
04 and 05 use a LAF sensor.



but I don't know for sure if it will solve the problem and

Did you cause damage by DIY wiring the wrong thing in there? Who knows.
Did you even put it in the correct hole?
I can't tell that from here either.(That's what She said!)

I can't return it once it's installed

Common policy on electrical parts everywhere.

At this point I have 2 options: troubleshoot till I've exhausted every possible reason for P0134 being the single and only recurrent code when scanned (then shell out for the OEM sensor anyway) ... or, buy the OEM sensor tomorrow and see.

You got a problem with using the right parts on the first try?

Your troubleshooting may be led astray by having a completely wrong sensor DIY wired in.

Know anyone with the exact same car? Borrow it for a check.

 
Rep Power: 0

I'm trying to ... not doing so well though obviously


Three strikes being (1) buying an oxygen sensor instead of a LAF sensor, (2) considering paying stealership price for the 36531-PLR-003 Honda sensor ... (3)?

Flame suit is on

I thought Honda's LAF sensor was aka a primary O2 sensor and reading posts on here (and Honda Tech), I was led to believe they're the exact same thing (made in the same place) except the cheap one I bought has to be cut and soldered ...

If you're right, I'm wrong ... but that's why I posted the question.

Hard to eff up blue-white, white-green, blacks-blacks, right? ... but I did, lol (at first I hooked blue-green and white-white ... then I read the instructions and did twice the work ).

Correct hole? Not sure either ... it's currently in the header (Megan came with an O2 sensor boss) and not in the OEM place. I thought I'd put it in the header where it would heat up quicker. Another mistake?


Yep, and it's going to cost me $338.86 in parts for this DIY

[quote=ezone;4600570]At this point I have 2 options: troubleshoot till I've exhausted every possible reason for P0134 being the single and only recurrent code when scanned (then shell out for the OEM sensor anyway) ... or, buy the OEM sensor tomorrow and see.

Just trying to save for my kids to be able to go to college one day so they don't turn out like their father and buy used cars with CELs, lol

It was (I admit it), but I fixed the wrong wiring issue and still have the problem. I have an account with a warehouse -- their computer says it should work with my '04 Civic Si coupe (D17A2 like the US EX)

Unfortunately, no. Everyone I know drives a truck!

 
Rep Power: 518

I'm trying to ... not doing so well though obviously

Admitting you have a problem is the first step......wait, wrong program...




Three strikes being (1) buying an oxygen sensor instead of a LAF sensor, (2) considering paying stealership price for the 36531-PLR-003 Honda sensor ... (3)?

Flame suit is on

The cheapest people usually end up paying the most.
Wrong parts can be expensive.
Correct parts are priceless.





I thought Honda's LAF sensor was aka a primary O2 sensor and reading posts on here (and Honda Tech), I was led to believe they're the exact same thing (made in the same place)

Bacon and steak come from the same place too.
Does that make them the same?
Do I need to explain this to you too?


The sensors fit in the same hole and do the same job.
They appear the same to the untrained eye (sometimes even mine!)
The similarities STOP THERE.
They do not operate on the same principles.
They do not work the same.
They are not the same.



except the cheap one I bought has to be cut and soldered ...

You can't take it back either.


If you're right, I'm wrong ... but that's why I posted the question.
If you know what you DON'T know, you are doing better than most in management.
If you DON'T know what you don't know, you may as well be management.


Hard to eff up blue-white, white-green, blacks-blacks, right? ... but I did, lol (at first I hooked blue-green and white-white ... then I read the instructions and did twice the work ).

Some people go to great lengths to complicate simple ****.



Correct hole? Not sure either ... it's currently in

Front or rear.
Pre or post cat.




the header (Megan came with an O2 sensor boss) and not in the OEM place. I thought I'd put it in the header where it would heat up quicker. Another mistake?

1) Depends on placement. In the collector, or only in a single downpipe? (I can't see what you have) The sensor needs to be located in the stream of all 4 cylinders, not just one.
2) The sensor has its own heater. Mostly irrelevant as to its proximity to the engine.



Yep, and it's going to cost me $338.86 in parts for this DIY
You didn't include the wrong parts, your time, your gas, and my consultation bill.
My fee is $10 per minute, American Dollars.
I'm going to need your credit card numbers for my efforts here.
I deserve it because I have not been a straight up azzhole to you yet.

My catalog says $326.xx USD MSRP
Majestic wants $100 less http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...VIN+Number+---
Not sure if you can ship it up there though.




Just trying to save for my kids to be able to go to college one day so they don't turn out like their father and buy used cars with CELs, lol

Time is money, too.
Any car will eventually have a check engine light on. Even new cars.
You just need to learn how to deal with it properly and efficiently.


It was (I admit it), but I fixed the wrong wiring issue and still have the problem. I have an account with a warehouse -- their computer says it should work with my '04 Civic Si coupe (D17A2 like the US EX)

Yeah, right.
They sell you some Bosch Platinums too?
You want fries with that?
Parts stores sell parts. All parts are the same.
The sensor will fit in the hole, so therefore it must be right.
Nobody there actually has to fix the cars, so that doesn't factor into any decisions there.
You want that supersized?


Unfortunately, no. Everyone I know drives a truck!

They break too.

 
Rep Power: 256

your mistake was buying a universal oxegen sensor and not a oem plug in. go to your local parts store and buy a denso OEM PLUG IN sensor there around 80-125 dollars i got mine for 90 bucks at advanced auto.

 
Rep Power: 518

^^^True.
If he can find that option.
I have never been offered that name "OEM plug in" or whatever as a choice in sensors though. It always seemed to be so random what they sent.

Some of the sensors sold at parts stores are reboxed factory original parts, this is what I see the most when I DO shop at a parts store.

This is hit or miss for me at the shop, and I can't rely on cheap help at the parts store that has Sunday hours to open the plain white box and see who made a sensor.

 
Rep Power: 0

I put in a Honda LAF sensor and put 200 kms on today with no CEL -- the car runs like a dream and idles like it's off! Lesson learned. Thanks for the good advice everyone!

 
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ezone was right btw, the O2 sensor and the 4-wire LAF sensors "look" the same but only the LAF works

 
Rep Power: 518

Hardware and software in the PCM is different in order to make use of the LAF sensor, as opposed to one made to use an O2 sensor.
Good to hear it worked properly.
Be glad you didn't damage anything with your wiring errors.

 
Rep Power: 256

honda doesn't make oxegen sensors they buy them from either NTK or DENSO so getting one from a honda dealer was a waste of money you could have gotten the same sensor from napa for half the price.

 
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How would I know that? An O2 sensor and a 4-wire linear air/fuel sensor look the same to me. Having the Honda LAF is well worth the peace of mind for me.

 
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How would I know that? An O2 sensor and a 4-wire linear air/fuel sensor look the same to me. Having the Honda LAF is well worth the peace of mind.

 
Rep Power: 256

idk maybe you should have listened to my previous post.

 
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I don't have time to read the whole thread right now (I work in a little bit), but here's a link I hope is helpful to you: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0134

 
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I'm having the same code... what do you all think about the Bosch sensor? Part# 13680

 
Rep Power: 518

I think this

would install that Bosch part directly into the dumpster with record speed.




Don't waste money on the Botch.
Spend wisely the first time on the correct Denso or NTK sensor.
OR factory parts http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/


*AHEM*

 
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You have the part numbers handy on Denso, NTK, Honda?

 
Rep Power: 518

I posted a link to a factory catalog on a dealers site, they give a good discount too.
Since YOU know what YOUR car is, and I don't, you can look it up yourself.


EDIT: If you are Canadian, the US sites may not work with your car.

 
Rep Power: 256

once again honda does not manufacture O2 sensors they use NTK and DENSO if you buy a honda o2 sensor from the dealer it will be either NTK or DENSO with a much higher price tag. as apposed getting the direct plug in NTK or DENSO from napa or whatever part store carries those two brands.

 
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Gents,

Sorry to revisit an old thread, but I'm in the same boat. I understand that my 2004 LX requires an Air Fuel sensor vice the o2. What I need to know is where specifically the sensor is located on the car. I can see one right up front when I pop the hood, but I'm not sure that's it. The only YouTube videos I've seen on an 04 civic are SI/EX specific. I've looked for images as well, but nothing seems to specifically label the sensor location for the LX.

Any anyone chime in on what sensor the p0134 code applies to? The OBD site says bank 1, sensor 1, but I need to know where that is!

Thanks in advance.

 
Rep Power: 518

That's the primary sensor. B1S1

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for your response. Would the following clip be a relatively accurate guide on replacing it?


As far as the sensor you provided a link for, the link shows as being for a Honda Pilot. I was planning to buy the following sensor, but if I'm wrong please let me know.

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...io_sensor.html

Specifically I was going to get the one for a D17A1 since I have an LX. Also, please sanity check me that the above is a simple plug and play sensor....don't want to mess with wires if I don't have to.

UPDATE: also found this on Amazon, is this the right part?


Or


My original concern was that the sensor was actually in the back of the engine based on some images I saw in a Google search, but my understanding is that the B1, S1 is actually right up front, similar to the video?

Just want to be sure I buy the right part AND put in the right spot the first time around. Unfortunatly the Honda parts site doesn't appear to be useful.

Thanks again.

 
Rep Power: 518

Jeez. No. No need to remove the heat shield at all. If you can't put a normal wrench on your sensor, there are a few different choices of special tools available that make it stupid simple to change.

You posted in a thread that's about 4 years old..... I have no idea what link you found that led to a Pilot.

The pic I posted in response to your post sure looks like a D17A1 engine to me.


-------------------------------
I also noticed this thread was made during the period when I had quit smoking and I had not finished nicotine withdrawals....it took a full year to get over it and I was always ready to kill anyone for no reason.

Look on your sensor and find the brand name (original should be either DENSO or NTK) then go to that manufacturers website and look up your vehicle and obtain the correct sensor number.
(it was likely a Denso part but you should verify that)
Then google search/shop that part number.

Video was of an older car, looked like 96-00 (6th gen).

Are you in the USA? Is this a USA spec vehicle?

 
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It is a USA vehicle. Getting parts is tricky however since I'm currently living in Guam.

Ready some of the sensor reviews on Amazon threw me for a loop since a lot of folks reference using the above parts to fix a p0135 code. Does the 04 LX use the same sensor for a p0135 and 0135?

 
Rep Power: 518

Ok the primary sensor (AF sensor) is #7 in this parts catalog pic




You can look up your own car and double check if you want
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/


P0134 and P0135 represent (define) two different failures, but both have to do with the primary sensor.